Ed Shadid Launches Formal Attack on MAPS 3 Conv Center in tandem with Mayoral Bid

[Plutonic Panda]

This convention center needs to be built with a nice luxurious tall hotel.

[bchris02]

This convention center needs to be built with a nice luxurious tall hotel.

My vote is for something like this.



It's probably a longshot though.

[PWitty]

But on that basis, how do you know the CC would work at all?

The consultants we paid a ton of money to and that are considered experts said it would ONLY work with the hotel. Which is another way of saying it won't work without it.

The consultants are probably accustomed to CC's having hotels attached to them, so they're obviously going to make recommendations based on their previous experience. That previous experience being that there should be a hotel attached. I doubt they have seen enough without attached hotels to recommend it with confidence, but that doesn't mean it couldn't work.

[flintysooner]

There is little doubt that it would work better with a convention hotel and probably for some of the better events a hotel will be a necessity.

But the Cox needs to be replaced even for existing convention business and that business is currently working without a hotel.

So I really do not have a big problem with building the center first without a hotel just to replace the Cox.

That said I would have no problem at all voting in favor of helping finance a convention hotel either.

[zookeeper]

My vote is for something like this.



It's probably a longshot though.

Hard to believe that's in Poland. Warsaw under communism was so dreary.

[RadicalModerate]

I'm not sure about any connection between this gentleman and Ed Shadid, yet he expresses some interesting thoughts here

[shawnw]

I do wonder, though, since none of the projects were listed on the ballot, how you legally remove something that no one voted on in the first place.

Maybe he's doing an end-around to kill the streetcar. Legally invalidate one MAPS III project and invalidate them all, stop the tax collection immediately after the vote, all projects not yet funded die.

[bradh]

I can't believe this clown seems set out to destroy the one thing that turned this city around.

[RadicalModerate]

I can't believe this clown seems set out to destroy the one thing that turned this city around.

By "the one thing" are you referring to the MAPS concept/projects or the imaginary Convention Center? (oh, those pesky pronouns--and articles)

[bradh]

By "the one thing" are you referring to the MAPS concept/projects or the imaginary Convention Center? (oh, those pesky pronouns--and articles)

MAPS as a whole

[RadicalModerate]

MAPS as a whole

Glad you clarified that . . . =) I think that MAPS was one of the most brilliant, productive and positive ideas that ever blessed OKC. I also believe funds shouldn't be monopolized by any sort of "good ol' boy" network simply to line "their" pockets at the expense of alternative concepts that could be more generally appreciated, in every sense of that term. After all is said and done, Mick Cornett is one of the best spokespersons ever for OKC and "doing the right thing" (see his TED Talk elsewhere in here, for example). I'd vote for him . . . but I can't because I live in one of the "suburban islands" surrounded by OKC. So I can't imagine why any of this means anything to me, no how. =)

[betts]

Maybe he's doing an end-around to kill the streetcar. Legally invalidate one MAPS III project and invalidate them all, stop the tax collection immediately after the vote, all projects not yet funded die.

That's my question. How do you legally invalidate one when it wasn't on the ballot? No one voted for or against a convention center specifically, or anything else.

[shawnw]

I guess I meant invalidate all of them to invalidate the one... so he's going after the CC but doesn't mind the collateral damage of the streetcar and other projects dying...

[bchris02]

Without MAPS, OKC would be nothing but a giant Amarillo. This city would probably be losing population at a brisk rate by now. It would be on the list with Detroit as being a failed city. MAPS saved OKC, so it's absolutely mind boggling anybody would oppose it or want to tarnish the MAPS brand. Politicians will do some insane things however to please special interest groups or a good ole boy network. Mayor Ray Baker pretty much killed Fort Smith, Arkansas in the 1990s and early 2000s with his cronyism and stiff opposition to economic growth of any kind. I would hate to see OKC go down that route.

[SoonerDave]

We've got a real rock-and-hard-place problem here, but it sure seems like there's an opportunity for someone in the private side to propose some kind of unique public/private partnership to get the hotel built. What about a TIF district?

I know the history of the CC is a bit sketchy, and I do believe MAPS 3 was constructed primarily to get a relatively less-than-popular convention center constructed. All that said, it was on the ballot, the ballot passed, and a CC is on the way. We know the consultants are urging us to do a hotel in tandem with it, and unless we think there's something sinister about the consultant's motives, we should take that recommendation seriously.

Some sort of public-private partnership, of what form I'm not necessarily smart enough to suggest, should figure out some out-of-the-box way to get this done. Because the other end of this is to get a resolution through the council to change the language of the MAPS resolution of intent to - guess what - include a hotel and have it financed via the MAPS tax. And that would do nothing but delight the Shadid crowd and inflame the anti-MAPS rhetoric. That's a bad plan, and surely Cornett knows it.

That's why someone from the private side has to come forward with some creative partnering arrangement to get this thing done. No matter the ulterior motives going in, we need to do this thing correctly.

[RadicalModerate]

Perhaps "The Convention Center" is sort of a dumb as a fox, half-assed, "insider deal" concept, banking on the general goodwill fostered, initially, by MAPS? (as i said, previously, as an OKC Island Dweller: MAPS Good. convention center? hmmm. not sure.)

please note that the phrasing of the above question? was simply an outliers attempt to mirror the phrasing of the Thread Topic.
i should probably express appreciation to the OP for linking bicycles (tandem) and rocket science (launches).

[trousers]

Perhaps "The Convention Center" is sort of a dumb as a fox, half-assed, "insider deal" concept, banking on the general goodwill fostered, initially, by MAPS? (as i said, previously, as an OKC Island Dweller: MAPS Good. convention center? hmmm. not sure.

This is the general feeling of a lot of people I know. They may not be in the same loop of info as this board but this is what they think and they vote accordingly.

[warreng88]

Here is the Oklahoman coverage on it:

Oklahoma City councilman Shadid calls for votes to strip MAPS 3 convention center, end tax collection early

A pair of initiative petitions filed in municipal court by Oklahoma City Councilman Ed Shadid would challenge key aspects of MAPS 3 plan.

By William Crum
Published: January 3, 2014

Ward 2 Oklahoma City Councilman Ed Shadid is leading an effort to call a vote on whether to strip the $280 million convention center from MAPS 3 and end collection of the sales tax more than two years early.

Advocates have 90 days to collect signatures of at least 6,035 Oklahoma City voters. If they are successful, the question most likely would go before voters in March 2015, unless city council members were to agree to call a special election.

The convention center is one of eight projects promised to Oklahoma City voters who approved the 1-cent MAPS 3 sales tax four years ago.

The $777 million building program includes a new downtown park and streetcar system, sidewalks and trails, senior wellness centers and improvements to the Oklahoma River.

The convention center is the most expensive MAPS 3 project.

Shadid, who has said he is running for mayor in the March 4 election, has contended voters in 2009 were denied access to information that a hotel likely would have to accompany development of the convention center to make the project a success. He has said constructing a hotel likely would require taxpayer subsidies of $50 million to $200 million.

Shadid was ill Friday and was unavailable for comment.

Oklahoma City Clerk Frances Kersey said Harrah attorney Lance Cargill on Thursday afternoon filed two initiative petitions aimed at calling votes on MAPS 3.

One petition would specify that projects funded by the MAPS 3 sales tax could not include a convention center. The other would end MAPS 3 sales tax collections on July 1, 2015. The MAPS 3 sales tax as approved by voters is to run through 2017.

MAPS 3 is a pay-as-you-go public improvements program designed to avoid public debt and to leverage private investment. It is a successor to the original MAPS program approved by voters in 1993 and to MAPS for Kids, a program to renovate and upgrade public school buildings. Projects have been funded by successive 1-cent sales taxes.

MAPS is credited with laying the groundwork for the Oklahoma City renaissance, leveraging investments that revitalized downtown, created internationally recognized rowing and kayaking venues on the Oklahoma River, and transformed Bricktown into an entertainment district.

Oklahoma City councilman Shadid calls for votes to strip MAPS 3 convention center, end tax collection early | News OK

What a dick...

[warreng88]

I hope he gets absolutely obliterated in the Mayoral election. I would like to see more dirt on him and his life completely ruined to where he never steps foot in OKC ever again. I hope his practice goes under and has to move back to Chicago or SF.

[shawnw]

Steve's point from the chat today is a good one:

Steve: ...I'm not aware of another time in our city's history when a sitting city council member attempted to overturn a previous vote by taxpayers.

(though I don't agree with wishing ill will on him personally)

[betts]

This is the general feeling of a lot of people I know. They may not be in the same loop of info as this board but this is what they think and they vote accordingly.

Yeah, that's that "it's not fair that the rich are rich" attitude that seems so pervasive right now. Every building that is built, every piece of land that is sold, every park that is built, every statue that's erected makes money for someone - but not me. I haven't made a dime off a single MAPS project, nor will I. I don't have the money or the talent to be a developer, or contractor or whatever. I also don't have to take the financial risk they do. But, what I've discovered is that what makes them money frequently makes me happy. It improves my quality of life. And I'm more interested in my quality of life than worrying about whether someone made money improving my quality of life. And I vote accordingly.

[kevinpate]

Ah, the scent of scorched earth ... smells like brimstone.

[Pete]

Yeah, that's that "it's not fair that the rich are rich" attitude that seems so pervasive right now. Every building that is built, every piece of land that is sold, every park that is built, every statue that's erected makes money for someone - but not me. I haven't made a dime off a single MAPS project, nor will I. I don't have the money or the talent to be a developer, or contractor or whatever. I also don't have to take the financial risk they do. But, what I've discovered is that what makes them money frequently makes me happy. It improves my quality of life. And I'm more interested in my quality of life than worrying about whether someone made money improving my quality of life. And I vote accordingly.

It's really the way capitalism works, however it does get more complicated when there are billions in tax-payer money at work.

I'm all for developers making money but when there so much public investment in a concentrated area, there should be some public involvement in what is developed.

I don't see many people complaining about people getting rich on property outside of downtown.


As has been discussed so many times, downtown is the one area that belongs to all citizens and therefore it's a unique animal.

[trousers]

Yeah, that's that "it's not fair that the rich are rich" attitude that seems so pervasive right now. Every building that is built, every piece of land that is sold, every park that is built, every statue that's erected makes money for someone - but not me.

Really? You do realize that there is a middle ground right?
I'm referring to people that have supported every MAPS project. People that want the downtown park, a modern transit system. But something about this convention center doesn't sit right.
I for one am not willing to let this one issue derail the whole thing but like I said a lot of I know are really starting to second guess the whole thing.

[Pete]

I've never been happy with the way this whole convention center thing has transpired; to not being open about the study prior to the vote, to it being moved up in the timeline, to using a selection process that promised the best site for the CC and not what was best for OKC overall. And there are still a bunch of unanswered questions about what could be a very expensive hotel that will likely need substantial public support.

It's really too bad that Shadid has alienated himself to the point that he can't effectively address these issues -- because they do need addressing.

He could have also carried the torch for addressing the issues with the planning department, the Project 180 planning and budget and several other key areas that need to be put under a bright light.

Unfortunately, he's turned into a bit of a pariah and even when he is right and/or people may agree with his message, there is little trust.