OG&E Tower

[pickles]

I sincerely doubt that would happen. That doesn't alleviate concerns that he may scale back on his plans, but the above scenario is a bit drastic.

It's the least plausible scenario for development on this site. And yet, that is his fear. Oklahoma City has made him feel bad about many things before, and still does, and thus...

[PhiAlpha]

Bchris, tell us how you really feel about Lower Bricktown...

[catcherinthewry]

Chesapeake has paid more per acre for dozens of it's properties, many of which are lowly interior industrial lots.

I'm not sure Chesapeake is the best example. They have historically overpaid for many of their properties.

[bchris02]

Bchris, tell us how you really feel about Lower Bricktown...

Lower Bricktown is a perfect example of a developer promising the moon and then scaling it down to the absolute cheapest, bare minimum they can get away with. Randy Hogan won the bid over a few other developers on a false promise. It's more than relevant to this discussion. I am not predicting that Rainey Williams is going to do the same thing with the Stage Center Tower. Like Steve said, we need to wait for a real rendering. The possibility though can't be ruled out considering how much it has already been scaled down compared to what was originally planned.

[PhiAlpha]

Lower Bricktown is a perfect example of a developer promising the moon and then scaling it down to the absolute cheapest, bare minimum they can get away with. Randy Hogan won the bid over a few other developers on a false promise. It's more than relevant to this discussion. I am not predicting that Rainey Williams is going to do the same thing with the Stage Center Tower. Like Steve said, we need to wait for a real rendering. The possibility though can't be ruled out considering how much it has already been scaled down compared to what was originally planned.

I was being sarcastic...we all know how you feel about it.

[Spartan]

Now I'd hate for anyone to discredit bchris' sentiment toward Lower Bricktown...it's absolutely accurate. OCURA has no accountability for developers they think they want to keep working with. I don't which part of that is scarier.

[bchris02]

Now I'd hate for anyone to discredit bchris' sentiment toward Lower Bricktown...it's absolutely accurate. OCURA has no accountability for developers they think they want to keep working with. I don't which part of that is scarier.

Agreed. Lower Bricktown is underwhelming compared to the other up and coming districts in OKC, let alone entertainment districts in other cities. The worst part is how it was mostly subsidized by the taxpayer. No offense to anybody who likes it, but it was a colossal wasted opportunity from a development and placemaking standpoint. It could have been the focal point for a vibrant, mixed-use district rather than a few one story chain restaurants, the Sonic HQ, and surface parking.

[LakeEffect]

Now I'd hate for anyone to discredit bchris' sentiment toward Lower Bricktown...it's absolutely accurate. OCURA has no accountability for developers they think they want to keep working with. I don't which part of that is scarier.

I'd correct that to "had". New staff at OCURA/The Alliance is changing things.

[Pete]

Yes, the current version of OCURA is a completely different animal and although they really don't have a lot of leverage in LB, they did push for some meaningful changes to Kd's Restaurant.

[PhiAlpha]

Now I'd hate for anyone to discredit bchris' sentiment toward Lower Bricktown...it's absolutely accurate. OCURA has no accountability for developers they think they want to keep working with. I don't which part of that is scarier.

Not trying to discredit it, just making a commentary on how it's been referenced to the point of obsession nearly as often as Charlotte, Austin, Tulsa, and walmart in his posts. Though I do mostly agree with it.

[Pete]

They had absolutely zero leverage over Kd's and at least they tried.

Really, the first real project the new incarnation saw from beginning to soon-to-be-completed is the Edge, and not only was the selected project a good one, they had to throw over a non-performing previous awardee to re-open the process. Compare The Legacy (old regime) to the Edge... Very similar property and circumstances with one of the same developers but with incredibly different outcomes.

[OKVision4U]

Maybe if Raney had a cosiner he could get a loan for a 400 ft tall tower!!!!!!!

Raney may be at the max of his PFS w/ 100M. Or this could be a target number to work with for the lenders. Eitherway, Raney needs to stay with the World Class position in scale & design. This is the best way to insure demand and that his occupancy hits the numbers for that 20 / 30 year window (or for re-sale).

The block should have a corporate tower that hits the 500 ft range with an "iconic" draw for the city, will always be the "place to be". Then on the second tower should be much easier to fill with the big brother next to it. And, build both towers at the same time will help keep the cost at today's dollars and the ROI hitting that desired %.

Also note, the cost to extend this tower upwards is not as costly as expanding "out".

[Richard at Remax]

Can we change the name of the thread to Stage Center Mid-Rise?

[Spartan]

They had absolutely zero leverage over Kd's and at least they tried.

Really, the first real project the new incarnation saw from beginning to soon-to-be-completed is the Edge, and not only was the selected project a good one, they had to throw over a non-performing previous awardee to re-open the process. Compare The Legacy (old regime) to the Edge... Very similar property and circumstances with one of the same developers but with incredibly different outcomes.

*ahem* now known as Avana at Arts Quarter *ahem* :P

[LakeEffect]

Can we change the name of the thread to Stage Center Mid-Rise?

A high rise is anything 5 stories and over.

[soondoc]

It's sad how we went from 2 years of excitement and anticipation to a total let down. Lets just be honest, these 2 buildings on this site do nothing for our skyline and does not do this prime piece of property justice. We need to demand a tower of at least 28-30 stories. This would put the tower around 510-530 feet. If they just took the renderings and instead of making it so wide, use that to go vertical about 15 more stories that would look great. As for the other tower planned, it could be used for commercial, residential and shopping and could be 18-20 stories. They could be placed in a way that would mirror each other and this would look great and balance out our very flawed skyline.

Listen, we were promised a new skyscraper for our downtown and this is just an average mid rise that and city or suburb in the country could throw up. If this was going somewhere else in downtown as is then fine, but ABSOLUTELY not at this prime location. We are getting cheated in every way possible by doing so. We lose by tearing down an iconic structure only to gain a better than average mid rise that does NOTHING to balance out or add to our skyline. Having an impressive skyline is important and like I said earlier, perception does become reality when it comes to people seeing our city and that it is booming. Companies wanting to relocate see this as well and it is a sign of growth and vitality. I am so, so sick of OKC just doing the bare minimum because it's better than what was done in the past. We need to dream big, think big, and become big time. I promise you, Austin, Charlotte, Nashville, etc. don't have small time minimum standards. People see what's going on there because they have big aspirations and go all out. People see that and it becomes infectious and word spreads and people want to be a part of it and see what its all about.

Flood whoever with letters, demand bricktown, downtown, core to shore, boulevard, and central park are done in a way that are second to none and world class. We don't want regrets later of what could have been like lower bricktown. Lets draw attention around the country for all the right reasons and wow people when they come here and give them a reason to want to keep coming or move here!

[SOONER8693]

It's sad how we went from 2 years of excitement and anticipation to a total let down. Lets just be honest, these 2 buildings on this site do nothing for our skyline and does not do this prime piece of property justice. We need to demand a tower of at least 28-30 stories. This would put the tower around 510-530 feet. If they just took the renderings and instead of making it so wide, use that to go vertical about 15 more stories that would look great. As for the other tower planned, it could be used for commercial, residential and shopping and could be 18-20 stories. They could be placed in a way that would mirror each other and this would look great and balance out our very flawed skyline.

Listen, we were promised a new skyscraper for our downtown and this is just an average mid rise that and city or suburb in the country could throw up. If this was going somewhere else in downtown as is then fine, but ABSOLUTELY not at this prime location. We are getting cheated in every way possible by doing so. We lose by tearing down an iconic structure only to gain a better than average mid rise that does NOTHING to balance out or add to our skyline. Having an impressive skyline is important and like I said earlier, perception does become reality when it comes to people seeing our city and that it is booming. Companies wanting to relocate see this as well and it is a sign of growth and vitality. I am so, so sick of OKC just doing the bare minimum because it's better than what was done in the past. We need to dream big, think big, and become big time. I promise you, Austin, Charlotte, Nashville, etc. don't have small time minimum standards. People see what's going on there because they have big aspirations and go all out. People see that and it becomes infectious and word spreads and people want to be a part of it and see what its all about.

Flood whoever with letters, demand bricktown, downtown, core to shore, boulevard, and central park are done in a way that are second to none and world class. We don't want regrets later of what could have been like lower bricktown. Lets draw attention around the country for all the right reasons and wow people when they come here and give them a reason to want to keep coming or move here!

I vote soondoc for mayor of OKC.

[bchris02]

It's sad how we went from 2 years of excitement and anticipation to a total let down. Lets just be honest, these 2 buildings on this site do nothing for our skyline and does not do this prime piece of property justice. We need to demand a tower of at least 28-30 stories. This would put the tower around 510-530 feet. If they just took the renderings and instead of making it so wide, use that to go vertical about 15 more stories that would look great. As for the other tower planned, it could be used for commercial, residential and shopping and could be 18-20 stories. They could be placed in a way that would mirror each other and this would look great and balance out our very flawed skyline.

Listen, we were promised a new skyscraper for our downtown and this is just an average mid rise that and city or suburb in the country could throw up. If this was going somewhere else in downtown as is then fine, but ABSOLUTELY not at this prime location. We are getting cheated in every way possible by doing so. We lose by tearing down an iconic structure only to gain a better than average mid rise that does NOTHING to balance out or add to our skyline. Having an impressive skyline is important and like I said earlier, perception does become reality when it comes to people seeing our city and that it is booming. Companies wanting to relocate see this as well and it is a sign of growth and vitality. I am so, so sick of OKC just doing the bare minimum because it's better than what was done in the past. We need to dream big, think big, and become big time. I promise you, Austin, Charlotte, Nashville, etc. don't have small time minimum standards. People see what's going on there because they have big aspirations and go all out. People see that and it becomes infectious and word spreads and people want to be a part of it and see what its all about.

Flood whoever with letters, demand bricktown, downtown, core to shore, boulevard, and central park are done in a way that are second to none and world class. We don't want regrets later of what could have been like lower bricktown. Lets draw attention around the country for all the right reasons and wow people when they come here and give them a reason to want to keep coming or move here!

Like x100

[soonerguru]

Again. As Steve has pointed out numerous times, this is not the design. Perhaps people should put away the pitchforks until the actual design rendering is released.

[metro]

And to be honest, when it was announced the nonprofit foundation would be the one to field offers and make the final decisions as to who develops this property and how, we all should have made a bunch of noise and insisted OCURA take the reigns and there be a transparent public process.

How can we demand such on a privately owned property, despite how prominent us urbanists view it? I'm all for highest and best use, but not at expense of eminent domain.

[OKCisOK4me]

Also, the green roof of this project is cool but why take away from the green block directly to the east--MBG!?

[bchris02]

Why not build this one block south? Instead of on the Stage Center site, at Hudson and Reno? The lots are roughly the same size. Have the main tower fronting Hudson and the hotel fronting Reno.

[metro]

Again. As Steve has pointed out numerous times, this is not the design. Perhaps people should put away the pitchforks until the actual design rendering is released.

No kidding, chill out and wait until they get into design proposals, etc. not to mention yes OKC often settles for less, but come on, you can't demand the private market build a mimimum # of floors, etc. Is OKC suddenly anti-capitalist now? While I too would like to see the next Burj Kalifa built there with awesome "world class" street interaction, I don't believe in using eminent domain and demanding private developers spend so much money. You don't pay $4.2 MIL for a lot and build a dump. Furthermore we were never promised anything, too many posters create their own hype over years of posts and start twisting users comments and after time, start believing them as truths.

[metro]

Also, the green roof of this project is cool but why take away from the green block directly to the east--MBG!?

It's obvious per the design and their comments in the "NewsOK" article that Enogex or Enable will most likely eventually build a 3rd tower on that space, it's just a nice "filler" for the time being.

[pickles]

No one promised you anything.