OG&E Tower

[OkieNate]

Where did I say it was world class? Trust me, I've seen more of the world than 95% of you while I was in the Air Force. Plus, I just moved back to OKC from Philadelphia. If you think the stage center is a world class building you're sorely mistaken. It's an eye sore. Been ran down since the day it opened.

Rainy Williams, the guy who owns the land and is leading the project promised this to be a world class building. If you don't know the context of the thread maybe you should go back and read. I dont care what you say, and obviously you don't know what you are talking about if you didnt pick up the reference I made to "world class".

[Spartan]

There is no synergy between this proposal and the gardens & the elementary school. They don't interact with each other. Its the gardens, a corporate HQ and then the elementary school. The HQ benefits from the other 2, but the elementary school and the gardens don't benefit from HQ at all. They should all improve each other at the same time. Heck, they even blocked off the California easement with the proposal creating a complete disconnect from the Elementary School and the Myriad Gardens, something that should not happen at all costs. There is too much opportunity for these 3 parcels of land to act as a continuous flow that could potentially stretch even farther west. But once the Gardens are cut off from the west by this development it is going to cause any momentum coming from the Gardens going west to completely stop.

Got it?

California should be reopened and I don't see anything in this proposal that prevents that inte future. Am I wrong?

Hoya, how much parking is included? Te initial stories were disturbingly low on specifics which is becoming the norm for this mystery tower phenomenon.

[Pete]

Here's the quote; hope he lives up to his promise:

Rainey Williams, meanwhile, is promising that his development won't disappoint.

“I'm very excited to be doing this project,” Williams said. “I've been in this community my entire life, and we've seen where out-of-state owners didn't work out as well. We're going to build a high-rise that will be world class in every way.”

http://newsok.com/downtown-oklahoma-...rticle/3866102

[warreng88]

California should be reopened and I don't see anything in this proposal that prevents that inte future. Am I wrong?

Look at the renderings at the top, specifically #2 and #6 that show California. It looks like an entrance to the parking garage is being built there with a stage on the other side for the Arts Festival. I'm not saying it can't happen but a lot of work would have to be redone to reopen California if that is done.

[OKCisOK4me]

California should be reopened and I don't see anything in this proposal that prevents that inte future. Am I wrong?

Hoya, how much parking is included? Te initial stories were disturbingly low on specifics which is becoming the norm for this mystery tower phenomenon.

Yes, this proposal has an underground entry to their garage on the west end of the California easement.

[PhiAlpha]

Rainy Williams, the guy who owns the land and is leading the project promised this to be a world class building. If you don't know the context of the thread maybe you should go back and read. I dont care what you say, and obviously you don't know what you are talking about if you didnt pick up the reference I made to "world class".

Dude chill...he is the one that started the mystery tower thread...I'm pretty sure he's been reading it longer then you've been a member on the board.

[jccouger]

High rise and world class. How many times could be mislead in one sentence? That quote was only from 5 months ago. Imagine what could change between now and SC demolition, and then between SC demolition and construction. Makes my skin crawl.

[OKCisOK4me]

Here's the quote; hope he lives up to his promise:



Downtown Oklahoma City to get new tower | News OK

Maybe Rainey is confused as to what a high rise is versus a mid rise...

[Pete]

Let's hope he's not equally confused about what "world class" means.

[OkieNate]

Dude chill...he is the one that started the mystery tower thread...I'm pretty sure he's been reading it longer then you've been a member on the board.

Yet Pete backed me with Raineys quote. (don't drag Pete in this, Im just stating fact). And if he did start the thread how could he have missed the "world class" promise? I couldnt be more chill, dont confuse my passion with anger or hostility.

[PhiAlpha]

Yet Pete backed me with Raineys quote. (don't drag Pete in this, Im just stating fact). And if he did start the thread how could he have missed the "world class" promise? I couldnt be more chill, dont confuse my passion with anger or hostility.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I know Rainey said that. Coov was responding to your post where you said

If YOU think what was presented was anything close to world class I encourage you to go see more of the world. This is far from world class.

In the context of that whole conversation, he never said HE thought it was world class or needed to be...you brought that into the discussion based on what Rainey said...not what coov said and accused coov of thinking it was world class. That is why coov responded "When did I say this was world class?"

So again...whether passion or hostility, chill...I'm sure he agrees, like the rest of us do, that this is not world class. However, some including myself, still think its a vast improvement over the stage center because there is really no doubting that unless you just love the stage center. I do hope the developement improves to include a larger tower and/or more buildings but given the street interaction, if built as proposed, I would be mostly ok with it. More mid-rise buildings isn't going to kill anyone, especially if more high rises are supposedly on the way (per Steve's article). Go down to FTW, a downtown that consists of mostly mid-rises, and tell me that downtown isn't cool.

[Just the facts]

Where did I say it was world class? Trust me, I've seen more of the world than 95% of you while I was in the Air Force. Plus, I just moved back to OKC from Philadelphia. If you think the stage center is a world class building you're sorely mistaken. It's an eye sore. Been ran down since the day it opened.

This^. It won a crappy award 40 years ago from a bunch of hack architects that were so bad at their craft that the Stage Center was considered one of their great achievements. Boston City Hall won an award also, anyone want to save that?

Of course, none of the "Save Stage Center" should surprise anyone - RW built time into his plan for just such an effort.

[coov23]

Rainy Williams, the guy who owns the land and is leading the project promised this to be a world class building. If you don't know the context of the thread maybe you should go back and read. I dont care what you say, and obviously you don't know what you are talking about if you didnt pick up the reference I made to "world class".

I know exactly what he said, but let's not forget that what they showed was just rough draft sketchings. We have no clue what the final rendering will look like. My advice would be to wait and see if its "world class" when the real renderings are presented. Otherwise, you are making a huge issue over nothing at this point.

[jccouger]

Lets shift our discussion away from saving the stage center, to maximizing the development of this valuable parcel of land.

We can all mostly agree that even this dreadfully disappointing proposal is still more valuable then the current stage center. However, the proposal is still a HUGE waste of the value of this land. Once this is developed, there is no going back.

This is the complete summation of my view points.

[OkieNate]

This^. It won a crappy award 40 years ago from a bunch of hack architects that were so bad at their craft that the Stage Center was considered one of their great achievements. Boston City Hall won an award also, anyone want to save that?

Its not about saving the stage center. it IS about the quality of development that is going replace it! And when someone promises a world class replacement, thats what they should be held to.

[OKCisOK4me]

Lets shift our discussion away from saving the stage center, to maximizing the development of this valuable parcel of land.

We can all mostly agree that even this dreadfully disappointing proposal is still more valuable then the current stage center. However, the proposal is still a HUGE waste of the value of this land. Once this is developed, there is no going back.

This is the complete summation of my view points.

Agreed

[OkieNate]

I know exactly what he said, but let's not forget that what they showed was just rough draft sketchings. We have no clue what the final rendering will look like. My advice would be to wait and see if its "world class" when the real renderings are presented. Otherwise, you are making a huge issue over nothing at this point.

Yes, and the rough draft sketching was already very underwhelming. It went from at least 20 stories to 14-16. I hope youre right, and I am making a huge deal out of nothing but so far this does not past the "smell test".

[Just the facts]

Yes, and the rough draft sketching was already very underwhelming. It went from at least 20 stories to 14-16. I hope youre right, and I am making a huge deal out of nothing but so far this does not past the "smell test".

I would love to have the discussion stick with the 'replacement' but when the focus seems to center on building height I just don't know where we go from there. It seems like if he just added 20 stories to the current design all opposition would just melt away. In reality - the height difference between 16 stores and 36 stories should the LAST item of contention. There are so so many other consideration that should take priority over height.

1) Streetwall
2) retail space
3) Exterior lighting
4) Sidewalk interaction
5) Set backs
6) Curb cuts
7) parking ingress/egress
8) terminal view on California Ave
9) 10,000 things I can't think of right now
10,010) Building height

[OkieNate]

I'm not saying you're wrong, I know Rainey said that. Coov was responding to your post where you said In the context of that whole conversation, he never said HE thought it was world class or needed to be...you brought that into the discussion based on what Rainey said...not what coov said and accused coov of thinking it was world class. That is why coov responded "When did I say this was world class?"

So again...whether passion or hostility, chill...I'm sure he agrees, like the rest of us do, that this is not world class. However, some including myself, still think its a vast improvement over the stage center because there is really no doubting that unless you just love the stage center. I do hope the developement improves to include a larger tower and/or more buildings but given the street interaction, if built as proposed, I would be mostly ok with it. More mid-rise buildings isn't going to kill anyone, especially if more high rises are supposedly on the way (per Steve's article). Go down to FTW, a downtown that consists of mostly mid-rises, and tell me that downtown isn't cool.

Downtown FTW is great, but we are talking about what is best for the stage center site. If Rainey wasnt going to building something world class he should not have ran his mouth. My issue is with Williams over promising and so far (although it is very very early has under delivered). If he promised a 14-16 modern mid rise, I'd be okay with it. Why are we giving this guy a pass for not keeping his word??

[Pete]

^

Remember, however, that what he promised and proposed was part of a process whereby the foundation selected him as a developer.

There were other proposals and bids for this site.

[Pete]

Given the importance of what currently exists on this site and the massive public investment all around, I really wish OCURA would have bought the site from the foundation, then have gone through a proper public, RFP process with specific parameters.

Then, if the developer does not live up to it's end of the stated agreement, they can re-open the RFP.

[shawnw]

I doubt OCURA wanted to be directly involved with the destruction of Stage Center.

[Just the facts]

Granted they are under new management, but is not like OCURA has a long track record of great projects either.

[Pete]

OCURA is a completely new animal since they've been merged with the Alliance for Economic Development and everything they've done under the new regime has been pretty darn good.

This is exactly the type of project they should be handling, otherwise there is no accountability to the public.

[shawnw]

I didn't realize there was this relationship. Can you explain further?