OG&E Tower

[G.Walker]

This project reminds me of the Sheraton Century Center development. I don't like the city block sized 3 story building base with the poor integration of the towers, appear to be a stuck on afterthought.

I like this buildings integration of building base of retail, parking and tower...

See, something like this would be nice at the Stage Center site. The office space portion is only 13 stories atop a 7 level parking garage, and 1 level or retail, but designing it like this gives it good height of 21 stories. If Rainey Williams would do this type of design, we could be looking at 16 story office space atop a 8 level parking garage, with 2 levels of retail. This would give us nice height of 26 stories. It would also leave more room on the rest of the parcel to develop into green space/plaza for employees, and additional land for another high-rise.

Again, it comes down to how this will be designed...ADG did a bad job on the conceptual site plan, and I think that's what most of us are basing this development off of. Hopefully, if they get a good firm to design this project like Pickard Chilton, Boka Powell, Zimmer Gunsul, or locally Rand Elliot, this project might end up pretty darn good.

[Pete]

This project reminds me of the Sheraton Century Center development.

It is almost exactly like the Century Center; the Sheraton is also 15 stories, it's almost exactly the same size and layout, same amount of parking, pool on top.

Main difference is the green roof and possibility of an additional 8-12 story building.

BTW, this project -- even with another 12-story building -- will likely have way more parking than necessary for it's tenants (also like the CC).


Image below is to scale:

[mcca7596]

Thanks for being a voice of reason, G.Walker.

[PWitty]

See, something like this would be nice at the Stage Center site. The office space portion is only 13 stories atop a 7 level parking garage, and 1 level or retail, but designing it like this gives it good height of 21 stories. If Rainey Williams would do this type of design, we could be looking at 16 story office space atop a 8 level parking garage, with 2 levels of retail. This would give us nice height of 26 stories. It would also leave more room on the rest of the parcel to develop into green space/plaza for employees, and additional land for another high-rise.

Again, it comes down to how this will be designed...ADG did a bad job on the conceptual site plan, and I think that's what most of us are basing this development off of. Hopefully, if they get a good firm to design this project like Pickard Chilton, Boka Powell, Zimmer Gunsul, or locally Rand Elliot, this project might end up pretty darn good.

I agree. You can't really judge it until the final renderings are out. I understand everyone's need to speculate, I just hate it when everyone starts jumping to the most negative conclusions.

[Pete]

Williams, after consulting with OG&E, gave specifications to ADG and asked them to do a conceptual plan.

The aesthetics may change but that isn't the issue at all.

Given the parameters and the budget provided, it's very unlikely a new architect is going to completely transform the plans with soaring public spaces, tons more retail or anything else not already shown on the plans. That is not the architect's job; they take the client's requirements and budget and go from there.

It would be fantastic if this ended up being way better than shown but there is nothing that has been reported that would lead you to believe that is likely.

We all HOPE it will be better, but there is also a chance it could be worse; i.e. the second building not being built at all or it only being 8 stories.

What is most likely is that the final plans will be very similar, with slight variation. That is almost always what happens.


Look,no one can blame people for being disappointed.

And I assure you, lots of people read this site and it does have influence, which we have seen in practice many times.

[hoya]

Image below is to scale:

Oh, no no no no no no no.

If that's the scale of this project, they need to forget about the Stage Center site. We're now looking at one of the smallest towers in the CBD, when we were promised a world-class development. I don't care if OG&E changed their specifications, this is not in the public interest. They should go one block north and two blocks west. Change the design to something like what architect5311 posted earlier:



Put it on Main Street between Lee and Dewey, on the north side of the block that has Dunlap Codding, across from the Main Street Arcade. It would kickstart development in that area, pushing us closer to the new 21c hotel. In that part of downtown it would be a huge success.

[bluedogok]

Funny how this has come full circle (from 7/30/84):



The New OG&E 16-story Headquarters

I remember seeing the drawings for that project in the vault at Benham a long, long time ago.

I don't think it's fair to base development in OKC to development in NYC...just sayin'.

That was a big driver of The Pei Plan, NYC development thinking in a place where suburban development was a fraction of the cost.

[Bellaboo]

I don't think the height of the Sheraton Center is in scale to the new proposal. 15 floors today for an office tower would be much more than a 15 floor hotel from the '70's or '80's.
How tall is the Sheraton - 140 feet ?

I'd think this new tower would be a minimum of 250 feet.

[catch22]

I don't think the height of the Sheraton Center is in scale to the new proposal. 15 floors today for an office tower would be much more than a 15 floor hotel from the '70's or '80's.
How tall is the Sheraton - 140 feet ?

I'd think this new tower would be a minimum of 250 feet.

Agree. Plus the lobby will probably be the height of 2 stories at least (but one floor). This won't be as short as the Sheridan. Pete, you know better than this...

[Snowman]

The design and color scheme of century center multiplying, what a nightmare, how can I unsee this image?

[Pete]

Yes, the SC tower will be taller -- my illustration was more to show similarity in the projects in terms of layout and scale in terms of the block.

[Just the facts]

We don't have to guess what it might look like.



It looks to be 3X as tall as Hotel Black across the street - which from the sidewalk is still a tall building. You sure as heck wouldn't want to fall from the roof.



It is not about building height, or being able to see it from Blanchard. It is about sidewalk interaction and the human scale.

[catch22]

Yes, the SC tower will be taller -- my illustration was more to show similarity in the projects in terms of layout and scale in terms of the block.

Should have noted that. Your photo is misleading.

[architect5311]

Should have noted that. Your photo is misleading.

The point is the project concept design. Like the Century Center the OGE complex has a 3 story base building with a mid-rise tower. Both have parking at the core surrounded by com'l/retail. Yes the OGE tower will be taller, but as gwalker pointed out above why not reserve some site for more or future development rather than locking in the design with this massive base element.

Also, why add more green space elevated to the roof level when you have the Myriad Gardens fronting your building. It would seem to pull people away from the already thin crowds at the MBG...

[Snowman]

Also, why add more green space elevated to the roof level when you have the Myriad Gardens fronting your building. It would seem to pull people away from the already thin crowds at the MBG...

Yea, if they wanted to do some amenities; things like basketball, tennis or other courts make more sense for the residential part, you could still have a small garden for OG&E employee's breaks

[Pete]

We don't have to guess what it might look like.

It looks to be 3X as tall as Hotel Black across the street

It may be a perspective thing or Hotel Black is not shown at the proper scale.

It's true height is 122 feet and the SC Tower as shown would be somewhere around twice that (15 floors x avg. 16 feet each = 240 feet). And 240 feet is generous... The just-completed One Place Tower in Tulsa is 18 stories and 238 feet.

[Teo9969]

Wow! What an intolerant attitude. Everyone has a right to their opinion and just because theirs is different from yours shouldn't make it asinine or ridiculous. Maybe there is a reason Stage Center is a "one of a kind" structure. I think SC was a bad fit from the time its design was forced on us and even less so now that it is in such disrepair, but I can respect the opinions that find it iconic.

And we should be absolutely intolerant to such horrible ideas.

I can't believe you're actually defending the idea of a grass lot in the middle of the CBD. Were it not for decorum, I assure you I'd happily be even more vulgar toward such an idea.

[OKCRT]

I hope someone finds a way to scrap this plan before it's too late. Build the thing somewhere else and leave the Stage Center site for the Big Boys.

[Teo9969]

Personally, I don't think if this thing is built according to the site plan, that it's all that bad.

It's meh. It's average, it's the lowest level of what our expectations should be. Certainly if the street interaction were worse on Hudson and Sheridan, I'd say this is unequivocally a no go, but I do think that this design will bring foot traffic and viability to the area. I wouldn't lose sleep over this being built, and I don't think I'd feel as badly about its existence as I do about the Century Center's existence, especially knowing what the Century Center replaced.

That being said…at $100M this has 0% chance of being world-class. It doesn't even really stand a chance to be something special in the context of this particular region of the United States. At its very best, this will be just one more thing to do in Oklahoma City…something that blends into the overall urban fabric and contributes to urbanism for urbanism's sake.

It's really not such a big deal one way or the other. Maybe that's an indictment or maybe its not…that probably depends on one's previous expectations and what one values most in new development.

[PhiAlpha]

I'm just glad no one is freaking out or anything...

[Just the facts]

Also, why add more green space elevated to the roof level when you have the Myriad Gardens fronting your building. It would seem to pull people away from the already thin crowds at the MBG...

Good point. With more park space coming already thin crowds will get thinner.

[adaniel]

Also, why add more green space elevated to the roof level when you have the Myriad Gardens fronting your building. It would seem to pull people away from the already thin crowds at the MBG...

Thin crowds at MBG? You haven't been there in a while, have you? (Edit, Sid beat me to it)

Also, I think you are misunderstanding the purpose of a green roof. Here is a quick read on them and their purpose . While it can be a very nice space, I imagine it will be semi-private, open to OG&E employees, events, whoever wants to rent it, and users of whatever comes of the second tower.

Definitely not a draw from MBG, and an improvement from the obnoxious "corporate plazas" that are all over downtown.

[bchris02]

Downtown OKC is pretty packed even on weeknights and that includes the Myriad Gardens. I was at the Devon Ice Rink last week one night and it was shoulder to shoulder. I wouldn't worry about the green rooftop competing with the Myriad Gardens.

The one day downtown could really use more activity is Sunday. Other than that, it's pretty active all around.

[PWitty]

Maybe someone can clear this up for me, because I'll admit I'm not exactly sure how bids for these kinds of developments work. That said, I've seen several people say that OG&E should move this tower and target a different site and leave this one open for bigger developments. But, if OG&E won the bidding process for this site does it not mean they were offering the biggest proposal $ wise?

[Pete]

Maybe someone can clear this up for me, because I'll admit I'm not exactly sure how bids for these kinds of developments work. That said, I've seen several people say that OG&E should move this tower and target a different site and leave this one open for bigger developments. But, if OG&E won the bidding process for this site does it not mean they were offering the biggest proposal $ wise?

First of all, it was Rainey Williams that bought the property, not OG&E.

And secondly, the foundation that owns Stage Center said their selection of purchaser was based on a lot of factors, not necessarily the highest bid.