OKC to host Summer Olymipcs

[bchris02]

How many MAPS initiatives would be needed to BE that city that is "on the world stage"? I'm not saying we are ready today ( or even for the next few Olympic events), but when would be "our" time?

1. We are in a better fiscal position to take-on this event in the future, we are on a "pay as you go" (no debt) for these types of facilities. Our close proximity for universities to hold events is a big plus ( this means we can build a facility and have a re-use already in-place. )
2. We are on the same path for our infrastructure now. The mass transit is moving ahead.

So, when? ...I'm not saying today, but maybe we can put ourselves On Course to host an Olympic Event ... 2040 / 2044. This would be a 50th Aniv. for MAPS ?

No MAPS initiative, no matter how ambitious, and propel OKC to being a world class city that can compete with London, Paris, Tokyo, New York, etc. This city is now just barely a nationally relevant city with the arrival of the Thunder and is still near the bottom of that tier. This city can become a very well-respected national city ala New Orleans, Denver, Austin, etc and still be far removed from an Olympic-class city.

For one, when is OKC going to get a hub airport with not only a direct flight to most major American cities but global ones as well? What is going to create the demand for those flights?

[hoya]

We could have some of the events in Norman (via our new High Speed Rail ) at OU...the new Loyd Noble Center for Gymnastics & a new Aquatics facility.

We could have some of the events in Edmond ( via our new High Speed Rail ) at UCO ..the new Tennis facility & table tennis events.

We could have some of the events in West OKC ( OSU OKC ) / MWC ( Rose State ) with new facilities...via our new High Speed Rail commuter lines.

...the facilities could be absorbed into the existing univ. with the others in downtown area facilities ( and fairgrounds ). ....this way, they are not a one time use facility w/ an olympic name on them.

You are seriously suggesting that we host major events for the Summer Olympic Games at a junior college. Wow.

[OKVision4U]

You are talking about two completely different ways of thinking though. One (Mr. Norrick's): Let's do something that rebuilds our city and makes it a place people want to live. If we get a major league sports tennant, great!. Two (You): Let's spend more than $20 billion over 20 years to lure one of the least profitable events (but most watched) in the world to a city that has a population a quarter of any other city in recent history that has hosted. Yes, we could build a $100 million water sports arena at OU, a new large tennis court at OCU, a 10,000 person arena at UCO and an 80,000 person arena downtown somewhere, but that is not something anyone here in the city wants to take on. Oh and then we need to convince hotels to build enormous structures decades before the games with no possibility that they will be anywhere near full before or after the games. Yeah, good luck with that.

Warreng, I think we are running "parallel" with the needs of this event now. We need mass transit, we are getting it. We need new infratstructure, we are making it happen. We are calling them "qualilty of life" projects and they certainly are. We will benefit (at home) with them in an everday use. Central Park / Riversports / Convention Center / Sidewalks / Project180. Hotels are trying to open their doors ASAP, and the new 21cMuseum Hotel is an "example or barometer" of where we are with that type of investment group. Convention Center Hotel ( Hyatt type ). ...we are on that track now.

When the Central Park opens, it will be something we will use immediately...and in the future for other large events. We are putting things in-place now, to host large events....NBA / Future MLS / NFL ???, ...that is the path now..... it may just bump into the Olympics in 2044 ???

[bchris02]

Hey, these excuses are the exact ones used in 92'. "Why would anyone spend 24 Mil dollars on a baseball stadium in downtown, we don't even support the 89ers now. THat's so dumb. We have roads that need fix'n. We have pot holes on my road so bad, I kaint' get to my house". "why would we want to spend 70 Mil on a stadium in downtown, we don't have NHL / NBA / only this minor league hockey team". "Hey we need new fire trucks now".

This sounds very familar. Mr. Norick had the vision then when so many did not. I think we ALL should be glad he did not listen to them and pushed it to a vote of the people.

A baseball stadium, an NBA arena, or even an NFL stadium are very different than the Olympics. The NFL is the next big, realistic goal for OKC in my opinion. That should be where we aim for MAPS4 or whatever. That as well as better public transit, sidewalks, parks, beautification, etc. The amount of money that it would take to attract the Olympics could be spent to make OKC a very desirable place to live, do business, and vacation even by the standards of other cities, and not just because its cheap.

[OKVision4U]

You are seriously suggesting that we host major events for the Summer Olympic Games at a junior college. Wow.

The smaller events ... archery / badmitton / etc. And yes, when we have in-place our new HSR, the new rail is planned right in front of Rose State. This makes my point, it helps them get a couple of facilities they can benefit from. Hey, have you looked at it lately, it has come along way in the past 5-10 years.

[warreng88]

Warreng, I think we are running "parallel" with the needs of this event now. We need mass transit, we are getting it. We need new infratstructure, we are making it happen. We are calling them "qualilty of life" projects and they certainly are. We will benefit (at home) with them in an everday use. Central Park / Riversports / Convention Center / Sidewalks / Project180. Hotels are trying to open their doors ASAP, and the new 21cMuseum Hotel is an "example or barometer" of where we are with that type of investment group. Convention Center Hotel ( Hyatt type ). ...we are on that track now.

When the Central Park opens, it will be something we will use immediately...and in the future for other large events. We are putting things in-place now, to host large events....NBA / Future MLS / NFL ???, ...that is the path now..... it may just bump into the Olympics in 2044 ???

But again, Maps3 is $777 million over seven years. About $111 million every year. What YOU are talking about would come out to $1 billion/year in bonds and sales tax revenue. That is why most cities go into debt with the Olympics. Because even most big cities aren't willing to do it a little at a time. The only think London really had to do was build several facilities, the athletic village and extend the Underground. We would have to do all of that as brand new construction. The push for the games and making a bid would start a solid 10 years before the actual games. So, we would have to have most of these things in tact in the next 20 years or less just to have a chance to host the games. Then, we might not get it at all. Again, I applaud you for looking forward and wanting to make out city world class and known to everyone, but go ahead and quote me on this: The Olympics in OKC will not happen in my lifetime.

[OKVision4U]

A baseball stadium, an NBA arena, or even an NFL stadium are very different than the Olympics. The NFL is the next big, realistic goal for OKC in my opinion. That should be where we aim for MAPS4 or whatever. That as well as better public transit, sidewalks, parks, beautification, etc. The amount of money that it would take to attract the Olympics could be spent to make OKC a very desirable place to live, do business, and vacation even by the standards of other cities, and not just because its cheap.

bchris, MAPS 4 , 5 , and 6 should all be with the intent of quality of life, business friendly, and a vacation destination for others. At that point, if we look up and see that all of those are already putting OKC in a position to host that event, then great. If not, then we have our city were we want it to be anyway.

[hoya]

The earliest we could host the Summer Olympics (barring some sort of huge disaster, such as global warming flooding all coastal cities, etc) would probably be around 2060. I'm revising my earlier estimate.

Would it be cool to have the Olympics in OKC? Sure. But we'd need 50 years of incredibly rapid growth to achieve that. Right now we'd be like a teenager who works at McDonalds planning how he's going to run for President when he turns 35. It's nice to have plans, but how about you get rich first, kid.

We're currently on what I would consider our first stage of urban reconstruction. We have a downtown area that's still filled with huge empty lots. We're covered with surface parking. Property values here are low enough that Stage Center, next to our beautiful downtown park, sold for like $3M dollars. That's very very low for prime downtown real estate. Here in 25 years, if our growth continues the way it is now, we'll have filled up most of the area from the river up to 23rd, and from the Capitol down to the Farmer's Market building. Maybe all the way down into Capitol Hill and over to Stockyard City. That would be phenomenal growth and a wonderful redevelopment of our city's core. It will also be a lot of the 4 story wood construction that we're seeing right now in Deep Deuce and Bricktown. Only once these areas are almost fully filled in will property values rise high enough to begin a second stage of urban development, where they'll tear down say, the Deep Deuce Apartments and replace them with 20 story residential towers. Maybe after another 20 years of that type of construction will have this city ready to take on the Olympics.

That's all presuming we keep growing at a rapid rate. Get OKC itself (not just the metro area) to about 1.8 million people, with a metro of about 3 million. Make us a major hub for some kind of transportation system (airline or high speed rail). Have a major, internationally recognized social figure come out of the city, a Nelson Mandela type person (someone with that level of recognition and general public goodwill). Establish a 20 billion dollar museum that is on par with the greatest museums in the world. Build a major architectural symbol that makes our skyline instantly recognizable around the world, something like the Space Needle or the St Louis Arch.

Then, and only then, will OKC be ready to seriously compete for an Olympic bid. That, or wait until nobody cares about the Olympics anymore.

[bchris02]

bchris, MAPS 4 , 5 , and 6 should all be with the intent of quality of life, business friendly, and a vacation destination for others. At that point, if we look up and see that all of those are already putting OKC in a position to host that event, then great. If not, then we have our city were we want it to be anyway.

One thing necessary for the Olympics that no MAPS initiative could bring is global prestige. OKC could become the nation's next big boomtown story and compare with Denver, Austin, or Charlotte in 20 years but would still not be cosmopolitan enough to compete for the Olympics.

[bchris02]

The earliest we could host the Summer Olympics (barring some sort of huge disaster, such as global warming flooding all coastal cities, etc) would probably be around 2060. I'm revising my earlier estimate.

Would it be cool to have the Olympics in OKC? Sure. But we'd need 50 years of incredibly rapid growth to achieve that. Right now we'd be like a teenager who works at McDonalds planning how he's going to run for President when he turns 35. It's nice to have plans, but how about you get rich first, kid.

We're currently on what I would consider our first stage of urban reconstruction. We have a downtown area that's still filled with huge empty lots. We're covered with surface parking. Property values here are low enough that Stage Center, next to our beautiful downtown park, sold for like $3M dollars. That's very very low for prime downtown real estate. Here in 25 years, if our growth continues the way it is now, we'll have filled up most of the area from the river up to 23rd, and from the Capitol down to the Farmer's Market building. Maybe all the way down into Capitol Hill and over to Stockyard City. That would be phenomenal growth and a wonderful redevelopment of our city's core. It will also be a lot of the 4 story wood construction that we're seeing right now in Deep Deuce and Bricktown. Only once these areas are almost fully filled in will property values rise high enough to begin a second stage of urban development, where they'll tear down say, the Deep Deuce Apartments and replace them with 20 story residential towers. Maybe after another 20 years of that type of construction will have this city ready to take on the Olympics.

That's all presuming we keep growing at a rapid rate. Get OKC itself (not just the metro area) to about 1.8 million people, with a metro of about 3 million. Make us a major hub for some kind of transportation system (airline or high speed rail). Have a major, internationally recognized social figure come out of the city, a Nelson Mandela type person (someone with that level of recognition and general public goodwill). Establish a 20 billion dollar museum that is on par with the greatest museums in the world. Build a major architectural symbol that makes our skyline instantly recognizable around the world, something like the Space Needle or the St Louis Arch.

Then, and only then, will OKC be ready to seriously compete for an Olympic bid. That, or wait until nobody cares about the Olympics anymore.

Exactly.

[warreng88]

Let's break down some figures you are proposing:

HSR from OU to UCO would be 33 miles. Using the old lines, it would cost about $2.5 million/mile, $80 million for the entire project.

Then we go from OSU-OKC to Rose State for 11 miles and that is $27,500,000.

Now we need to increase the streetcar from the future layout (circulator through MT/DT/BT/OUHSC) to OCU, out to NW Expressway, up to the Capital, down through Capital Hill, out west to the fairground and SW to the DT Airpark. Let's just say 30 miles. That would be about $600 million with it running at $20 million/mile.

Then we need to tear down the Cox Convention Center and build a $1 billion transit hub that links buses, streetcars, HSR and other forms of mass transit.

Then, let's build a HSR line from the airport to DT for the cost of about $25 million (ROW, new and upgraded lines). Then, we need to add 100 gates to our airport and increase the amenities. Let's just call it $500 million for an expanded airport, parking facilities, baggage claims, etc.

Now we need to build the athletic village for 18,000 participants. The Edge costs $144,000 per apartment. The Steel Yard is going to cost $214,285 per apartment, but is including the hotel, so let's just call it $150,000 per apartment. So the athletic village will cost close to $3 billion.

A new Olympic stadium will cost close to $1 billion.

We would need to do upgrades to The Peake, if not build a brand new facility by that time. The Barclays Center in Brooklyn cost $1 billion to build, so let's just use that figure.

We will have a relatively new convention center at the time, but will need about three to four times as much space, so let's add another $1 billion to that.

We are at $6 billion dollars and we haven't even touched the other multiple arenas that would need to be built at the universities and the fairgrounds like you suggested.

Now, if we are going to raise that money from MAPS money, like you suggested, let's assume sales tax revenues triple ($300 million) next year and stay that way until it is paid off. By that calculation (1% of the sales tax going to all of these things), it would take 2,000 months or 166 years before we are able to pay for it. Now, let's assume there are going to be bond issues to take out the HSR and hub portions of the plan and all that OKC is on the bill for are the arenas, streetcar and apartments. That is still $4.75 billion and would take 132 years to pay off.

Do you see why people don't like this idea?

[OKVision4U]

One thing necessary for the Olympics that no MAPS initiative could bring is global prestige. OKC could become the nation's next big boomtown story and compare with Denver, Austin, or Charlotte in 20 years but would still not be cosmopolitan enough to compete for the Olympics.

We have come along way in the past 20 years that has brought our cities physical image to a point that even "registers on the cosmopolitian scale". I can say that in 20/30 years, if we keep building to that high standard, then we can get even closer to that level that will be more attracive to the Olympic committee.

No city in the world, is perfect. London has its messy side too. Rio is a great place on a hill for a view or from the beach, but it has it's "not so clean side too". LA / Chicago / NYC is not all Manhattan / The Mile / Rodeo Dr either. They have their warts too.

[warreng88]

One thing no one has addressed is that it could be 100° or higher every day they are here. That would be just fantastic for us. I guess the same could be said for Dallas though.

[OKVision4U]

Let's break down some figures you are proposing:

HSR from OU to UCO would be 33 miles. Using the old lines, it would cost about $2.5 million/mile, $80 million for the entire project.

Then we go from OSU-OKC to Rose State for 11 miles and that is $27,500,000.

Now we need to increase the streetcar from the future layout (circulator through MT/DT/BT/OUHSC) to OCU, out to NW Expressway, up to the Capital, down through Capital Hill, out west to the fairground and SW to the DT Airpark. Let's just say 30 miles. That would be about $600 million with it running at $20 million/mile.

Then we need to tear down the Cox Convention Center and build a $1 billion transit hub that links buses, streetcars, HSR and other forms of mass transit.

Then, let's build a HSR line from the airport to DT for the cost of about $25 million (ROW, new and upgraded lines). Then, we need to add 100 gates to our airport and increase the amenities. Let's just call it $500 million for an expanded airport, parking facilities, baggage claims, etc.

Now we need to build the athletic village for 18,000 participants. The Edge costs $144,000 per apartment. The Steel Yard is going to cost $214,285 per apartment, but is including the hotel, so let's just call it $150,000 per apartment. So the athletic village will cost close to $3 billion.

A new Olympic stadium will cost close to $1 billion.

We would need to do upgrades to The Peake, if not build a brand new facility by that time. The Barclays Center in Brooklyn cost $1 billion to build, so let's just use that figure.

We will have a relatively new convention center at the time, but will need about three to four times as much space, so let's add another $1 billion to that.

We are at $6 billion dollars and we haven't even touched the other multiple arenas that would need to be built at the universities and the fairgrounds like you suggested.

Now, if we are going to raise that money from MAPS money, like you suggested, let's assume sales tax revenues triple ($300 million) next year and stay that way until it is paid off. By that calculation (1% of the sales tax going to all of these things), it would take 2,000 months or 166 years before we are able to pay for it. Now, let's assume there are going to be bond issues to take out the HSR and hub portions of the plan and all that OKC is on the bill for are the arenas, streetcar and apartments. That is still $4.75 billion and would take 132 years to pay off.

Do you see why people don't like this idea?

The irony here is that 80% of the items listed, will be needed anyway. Mass Transit HUB, you bet. HSR on a regional setting, you bet. It is already moving in that direction. Cox Convention, yes. The Olympic Stadium, well MLS or NFL may be your source for that anyway.

All things have a cost Our existing ODOT has cost us plenty... I-240 & I-35 will cost $200 mil and we still have a clover-leaf in it and does not cure the problem.

[hoya]

We have come along way in the past 20 years that has brought our cities physical image to a point that even "registers on the cosmopolitian scale". I can say that in 20/30 years, if we keep building to that high standard, then we can get even closer to that level that will be more attracive to the Olympic committee.

No city in the world, is perfect. London has its messy side too. Rio is a great place on a hill for a view or from the beach, but it has it's "not so clean side too". LA / Chicago / NYC is not all Manhattan / The Mile / Rodeo Dr either. They have their warts too.

You've heard of London. You've heard of Rio. You've heard of NYC. Have you heard of Joao Pessoa, Brazil? No? That's because it's a city about the same size as Oklahoma City. But it's in Brazil. That's how people in other countries think about Oklahoma City. They may have heard of Oklahoma because of the musical. And so adding the word "city" on the end leads them to conclude that OKC is a city in the place where the musical happened. But generally they've never really heard of us.

That has to change dramatically before you have any shot at an event of this magnitude.

[bchris02]

We have come along way in the past 20 years that has brought our cities physical image to a point that even "registers on the cosmopolitian scale". I can say that in 20/30 years, if we keep building to that high standard, then we can get even closer to that level that will be more attracive to the Olympic committee.

No city in the world, is perfect. London has its messy side too. Rio is a great place on a hill for a view or from the beach, but it has it's "not so clean side too". LA / Chicago / NYC is not all Manhattan / The Mile / Rodeo Dr either. They have their warts too.

OKC today has come a long way on the cosmopolitan scale compared to itself in the 1990s or against smaller regional cities like Wichita, Little Rock, or Amarillo.

Have you spent much time in places like NYC, LA, and Chicago? What about like Dallas, Houston, or Atlanta? How about even Austin, San Antonio, or Denver? If you have, you would realize that while OKC has seen a monumental transformation, it still has a long, long ways to go. Then there is the limitation of our airport. Hoyasooner hit the nail on the head as to what would be needed before OKC can even think about an Olympic bid and to think OKC will get there within 20 years, which would be needed to host the Olympics around 2050, is simply unrealistic.

[okseer]

No MAPS initiative, no matter how ambitious, and propel OKC to being a world class city that can compete with London, Paris, Tokyo, New York, etc. This city is now just barely a nationally relevant city with the arrival of the Thunder and is still near the bottom of that tier. This city can become a very well-respected national city ala New Orleans, Denver, Austin, etc and still be far removed from an Olympic-class city.

For one, when is OKC going to get a hub airport with not only a direct flight to most major American cities but global ones as well? What is going to create the demand for those flights?

This is not a bad thing. I for one do't want OKC to be London, Paris, Tokyo, New York, etc. If I did I would probibly move there. I really like OKC the way it is. I expect some growth and change ata gradual pace. Anyone that expects us to be London, Paris, Tokyo, New York, etc is living in the wrong city.

[OKVision4U]

So we need to increase our Brand Awareness. We are doing that.

I look at it this way. We are the biggest "fly-over" market in the US. More americans flyover from LA to NYC / Chicago to Dallas and that may not change w/ the Cost of Airlines ( and their business model ). Our key is to link OKC with the future, and not the past. A HSR HUB for OKC, would be the most forward thinking city in the central US. Let's use this to announce our OKC Brand to the world in 20/30 years.

OKC does not have to be the largest city to Host, but we can be the city that all aspire to be like. That would be a city that others across the globe would want to see.

We are on our way.

[Richard at Remax]

Right about now I really wish I had the sound bite of popping a beer that Mark Rodgers uses on the middle of the day show for ridiculous comments/thoughts

[soondoc]

If OKC is going to truly thrive it has to do something to become more of a destination. Whether that be some brand new Theme Park, multiple casinos (something like Tunica) near downtown with the Ferris Wheel and all, or making Film Row become Hollywood East. Give those guys a reason to come here and make movies and save millions in filming costs. With tax incentives and lower production costs, why would they not?

My point is that we MUST create a demand or desire to come to our city. The things we are doing are good but not great, from the standpoint that we notice it but the vast majority of the country has no clue about OKC. We need demand and we need to build things like the HSR and have a route from DT to NW, Edmond to Norman and WRWA to DT. We need to expand our airport, add more gates and put out a welcome sign for a hub relocation and offer incentives to come here. We already train thousands of air traffic controlers at our airport. Our leaders need to make this a priority and watch this city take off and explode.

As for how to pay for it, the HSR can be added to maps. Yes, it is an additional tax but the rewards would be so worth it for this city. Also, it can expand to other suburbs to join in as well to help pay for the cost such as Edmond, Moore, and Norman. If you want to be big, you have to dream big and it's time we stop settling for mediocre or making excuses of why we can't do it. You strike when the iron is hot and this economy is good here now and doing this now will save millions compared to later.

[OKVision4U]

Right about now I really wish I had the sound bite of popping a beer that Mark Rodgers uses on the middle of the day show for ridiculous comments/thoughts

You mean like having an Olympic Training facility for Rowing here on the Oklahoma River? Whitewater Rapids High Performance Course ? ....NBA Team gong to the Finals ? ... yeah, go back to sleep and make sure you mom wakes you for your 30's - 50's singles classes.

[bchris02]

If OKC is going to truly thrive it has to do something to become more of a destination. Whether that be some brand new Theme Park, multiple casinos (something like Tunica) near downtown with the Ferris Wheel and all, or making Film Row become Hollywood East. Give those guys a reason to come here and make movies and save millions in filming costs. With tax incentives and lower production costs, why would they not?

My point is that we MUST create a demand or desire to come to our city. The things we are doing are good but not great, from the standpoint that we notice it but the vast majority of the country has no clue about OKC. We need demand and we need to build things like the HSR and have a route from DT to NW, Edmond to Norman and WRWA to DT. We need to expand our airport, add more gates and put out a welcome sign for a hub relocation and offer incentives to come here. We already train thousands of air traffic controlers at our airport. Our leaders need to make this a priority and watch this city take off and explode.

As for how to pay for it, the HSR can be added to maps. Yes, it is an additional tax but the rewards would be so worth it for this city. Also, it can expand to other suburbs to join in as well to help pay for the cost such as Edmond, Moore, and Norman. If you want to be big, you have to dream big and it's time we stop settling for mediocre or making excuses of why we can't do it. You strike when the iron is hot and this economy is good here now and doing this now will save millions compared to later.

I agree with this. If most of America assumes we still ride horses, use outhouses, and watch tumbleweeds cross the road for entertainment how do you think OKC is viewed on a global scale?

OKC needs to work towards being an attractive destination - both to live and to visit on a national scale. That is the next milestone for this city. This city needs some sort of national event to put it in the spotlight for something positive. The Thunder has helped a lot with that, but imagine what the Super Bowl or one of the political conventions would do for this city? What about some world-class museums or other tourist attractions? How about a real theme park like Cedar Point in Ohio with the world's best roller coasters? When we look at where this city is going between now and 2050, those are the goals we should strive for.

[Richard at Remax]

You mean like having an Olympic Training facility for Rowing here on the Oklahoma River? Whitewater Rapids High Performance Course ? ....NBA Team gong to the Finals ? ... yeah, go back to sleep and make sure you mom wakes you for your 30's - 50's singles classes.

Actually if you go back you will see my comments that only way OKC sees anything Olympics is if Dallas gets it and we get the rowing competitions. So I am not blind to what's going on around me.

As for your head scratching second comment I really don't have a response to someone who throws out "your mom". I'm 29 and married so I'm going to have to miss out on those classes.

[Just the facts]

This thread really should just have 2 posts.

1 - OKC should host the Olympics.
2 - No.

So with that in mind - I'm out.

[jn1780]

You've heard of London. You've heard of Rio. You've heard of NYC. Have you heard of Joao Pessoa, Brazil? No? That's because it's a city about the same size as Oklahoma City. But it's in Brazil. That's how people in other countries think about Oklahoma City. They may have heard of Oklahoma because of the musical. And so adding the word "city" on the end leads them to conclude that OKC is a city in the place where the musical happened. But generally they've never really heard of us.

That has to change dramatically before you have any shot at an event of this magnitude.

And these places have a lot more history then OKC. Really, even Dallas would be lucky if they ever got the Olympics.