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Thread: So much for the Earth and the universe is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old

  1. #1

    Default So much for the Earth and the universe is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old

    There were no genetic tests 400,000 years ago, so our ancient relatives didn't know as much about themselves as we know about them now.

    Scientists have reconstructed a nearly complete mitochondrial genome of an ancient human relative, whose remains were found in Sima de los Huesos ("pit of bones") in northern Spain. It is the oldest DNA to be recovered from an early humanlike species, authors of a study wrote in the journal Nature.

    The ancient species that has revealed some of its genetic secrets, via bone fragments from a femur, is probably not directly linked to your family tree though.

    "It's quite clear that this is not a direct ancestor of people today," said Svante Paabo, a biologist at the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology and senior author of the study.

    Instead, he said, this representative of an early humanlike species, called Homo heidelbergensis, could be an ancestor of both Neanderthals and another group called the De nisovans.

    The genetic relationship to Denisovans, discovered through this DNA research, is surprising because the Homo heidelbergensis remains found in the cave have many Neanderthal-like features. The only remnants of Denisovans come from Siberia -- a long way from Spain.

    "It's sort of an open question really what this means, and I think further research into the nuclear genome of these hominins will address that," Paabo said.

    Paabo and colleagues used a new method for sequencing ancient, degraded genetic material to put together the 400,000-year-old specimen's mitochondrial genome. It is the oldest DNA ever found outside permafrost conditions -- in other words, it was not permanently frozen.
    Follow CNN Science News.

    Mitochondria are structures in cells that convert food energy into usable forms. DNA stored in the mitochondria is passed to children through the maternal line only (i.e., only moms can pass it on), so it's only a small snapshot of inherited genes.

    Genetic material in the cell's nucleus comes from both parents and gives a fuller picture of genetic heritage.

    To study genetics of our ancient predecessors, researchers have an easier time studying mitochondrial DNA because there are hundreds of times more copies of it in each cell.

    "It's a much bigger chance to find some fragments of this preserved," Paabo said.

    The method that researchers used involves separating the two strands of the DNA double helix. They then make a "library" from each of the two strands. If part of one strand is damaged, its analogue on the other strand -- which is made of complementary genetic partners -- may be intact.

    "That is sort of the big trick involved," Paabo said.

    After sequencing the mitochondrial DNA, researchers then compared the result with genetic information about Neanderthals and Denisovans.

    Since nuclear DNA encompasses more information about a person's inheritance, a nuclear genome sequence from Homo heidelbergensis may reveal even more clearly how it is connected to other ancient humanlike species, he said.

    But retrieving the nuclear DNA sequence will be challenging, study authors wrote. Just to get the mitochondrial DNA sequence, it took about two grams of bone -- less than 0.1 ounce -- even though hundreds of copies of this DNA are in every cell.

    Still, Paabo said, the sequencing technique his group used "opens a possibility to now do this at many other sites, and really begin to understand earlier human evolution."

    Researchers thought initially the mitochondrial DNA of the Homo heidelbergensis specimen would share a common ancestor with Neanderthals. Neanderthals lived in Europe beginning as much as 300,000 years ago, Paabo said. (Homo sapiens, our species, first appeared in Africa between 100,000 and 200,000 years ago.)

    Instead, researchers discovered through the DNA that this specimen is closer to the Denisovans, a group related to the Neanderthals.

    A likely explanation is that in Eastern Eurasia this species gave rise to Denisovans, and in Western Eurasia they were the ancestors of Neanderthals, Paabo said. But more research needs to be done to verify that theory.

    Little is known about the Denisovans. Although some of their remains were found in southern Siberia, their genetic signature is only found today on islands in the Pacific.

    Paabo was also the senior author on a 2012 study in the journal Science analyzing the Denisovan genome. That research suggested that human ancestors and the Denisovans' ancestors must have branched off from one another as much as 700,000 years ago -- although that number is vague. Still, it seems that the Denisovans must have mated with indigenous people in Papua New Guinea and Australia, Paabo said.

    About 3% to 5% of the DNA of people from Melanesia (islands in the southwest Pacific Ocean), Australia and New Guinea as well as aboriginal people from the Philippines comes from the Denisovans.

    On the other hand, everyone who lives outside Africa today probably has some Neanderthal DNA in them, Paabo said in 2012.

    The bottom line, Paabo said, is that the relationships between these early human relatives -- Homo heidelbergensis, Neanderthals and Denisovans -- are not clear-cut.

    "It's going to be a more complex history that one will eventually clarify with the help of DNA," he said


    Oldest human DNA found in Spain - CNN.com

  2. #2

    Default Re: So much for the Earth and the universe is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old

    So much for the Earth and the universe is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old
    I don't think any credible science sources has been proposing that the Earth or Universe were that young in the last hundred years.

  3. #3

    Default Re: So much for the Earth and the universe is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old

    On September 22, 1994 the very first episode of Friends aired. In that episode Monica was skinny, but in later episodes we learned that Monica used to be obese. How is it possible Monica used to be obese if it occurred years before the show even started? Answer, because the shows creator wanted it to appear that way by creating a back story so that we could put current events in context. Otherwise, Monica walking out of the bathroom after being dumped by Chandler with a half gallon of ice cream in her hands wouldn't have any meaning to the viewer.

  4. Default Re: So much for the Earth and the universe is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowman View Post
    I don't think any credible science sources has been proposing that the Earth or Universe were that young in the last hundred years.
    Credible being the key word. I had a roommate a few years ago who was firmly entrenched in the biblical timeline of only being 6,000 years old. I just had to shake my head.

  5. #5

    Default Re: So much for the Earth and the universe is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old

    I own 2 primitive culture hand tool stones from Barkley West, South Africa that date to the second gravel layer of the Vaal River - 500,000 years old.

    The posted article was in the Sunday Oklahoman yesterday.

  6. #6

    Default Re: So much for the Earth and the universe is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old

    Im sure our resident science expert will chime in that this doesnt matter but its crazy to me, how some can still not believe in at least the most conservative form of evolution when we have fossils of many types of near humans. When we find hunched over, large headed and nosed skeletons, that are definitely set apart from us, what is the explanation of that? Just another animal god created but let die off?

  7. #7

    Default Re: So much for the Earth and the universe is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    Im sure our resident science expert will chime in that this doesnt matter but its crazy to me, how some can still not believe in at least the most conservative form of evolution when we have fossils of many types of near humans. When we find hunched over, large headed and nosed skeletons, that are definitely set apart from us, what is the explanation of that? Just another animal god created but let die off?
    Really ugly people.

  8. #8

    Default Re: So much for the Earth and the universe is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old


  9. #9
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    Default Re: So much for the Earth and the universe is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old

    Not at all arguing anybody's point here, but that tree is "Old Tjikko" and is on a mountain...

  10. #10

    Default Re: So much for the Earth and the universe is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old

    Quote Originally Posted by shawnw View Post
    Not at all arguing anybody's point here, but that tree is "Old Tjikko" and is on a mountain...
    and is on a mountain... What? Don't leave me hangin' like that, man!


  11. #11

    Default Re: So much for the Earth and the universe is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old

    I know plenty of Christians and none of them think the earth is only "thousands of years old", I'm sure there are some more on the Westboro fringe who believe that but none that I personally know nor do I know of churches who preach that (granted, I haven't been to all of them). Really the only ones that I ever see or hear talking about something like that are those who desire to demean Christians in general.

  12. #12

    Default Re: So much for the Earth and the universe is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old

    Why do people still believe the earth is only upwards of 10,000 years old? lol

  13. #13

    Default Re: So much for the Earth and the universe is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedogok View Post
    I know plenty of Christians and none of them think the earth is only "thousands of years old", I'm sure there are some more on the Westboro fringe who believe that but none that I personally know nor do I know of churches who preach that (granted, I haven't been to all of them). Really the only ones that I ever see or hear talking about something like that are those who desire to demean Christians in general.
    This if definitely not limited to fringe denominations. Many Christians from conventional denominations believe this.

  14. #14

    Default Re: So much for the Earth and the universe is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old

    If the earth was billions of years old wouldn't Niagara Falls be much bigger than it is? They say it erodes at the rate of one foot per year.

  15. Default Re: So much for the Earth and the universe is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old

    Quote Originally Posted by Garin View Post
    If the earth was billions of years old wouldn't Niagara Falls be much bigger than it is? They say it erodes at the rate of one foot per year.
    Because the earth popped into its present state 4 billion years ago? MAKES SENSE TO ME

  16. #16

    Default Re: So much for the Earth and the universe is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old

    Quote Originally Posted by Garin View Post
    If the earth was billions of years old wouldn't Niagara Falls be much bigger than it is? They say it erodes at the rate of one foot per year.
    I think you mean ground down to no longer existing as a 'fall'. Anyway, the great lakes were a fairly late edition to our contenent, a remenant of glacial period that ended ironically for this topic about 10,000 years ago

  17. #17

    Default Re: So much for the Earth and the universe is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old

    So how old is Niagara Falls then?

  18. #18

    Default Re: So much for the Earth and the universe is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old

    Quote Originally Posted by Garin View Post
    So how old is Niagara Falls then?
    Pretty much the same as the lakes, the glaciers that created both started receding around 25,000 to 21,000 years ago, by around 10,000 years the glacier covering the lakes were fully melted

  19. #19

    Default Re: So much for the Earth and the universe is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old

    Quote Originally Posted by Garin View Post
    So how old is Niagara Falls then?
    Why do we have to provide proof for you?

    Try this

  20. #20

    Default Re: So much for the Earth and the universe is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old

    Quote Originally Posted by diggyba View Post
    Why do we have to provide proof for you?

    Try this
    That's awesome!

  21. #21
    Prunepicker Guest

    Default Re: So much for the Earth and the universe is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old

    Quote Originally Posted by diggyba View Post
    ... an artistic rendering...
    Posters created by Hippies aren't a reliable source. I know because I
    was a Hippie.

  22. #22

    Default Re: So much for the Earth and the universe is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old

    So there was no water before the ice age? Only after please explain.

  23. Default Re: So much for the Earth and the universe is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old

    Do your own homework. This is 4th grade stuff.

  24. #24
    Prunepicker Guest

    Default Re: So much for the Earth and the universe is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old

    Quote Originally Posted by Garin View Post
    So there was no water before the ice age? Only after please explain.
    Did someone really say this? Who?

  25. #25

    Default Re: So much for the Earth and the universe is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old

    Quote Originally Posted by Garin View Post
    So there was no water before the ice age? Only after please explain.
    Glaciers radically changed the surface in the area, thus how and where water flowed. It first scraped the soft earth as they grew from north to south, only the hard rock substrate was left in the great lakes region. As massive amounts of ice melted it cut rivers that last to this day.

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