Connecting downtown to Health Sciences Center

[Pete]

With 4,000 students and tens of thousands employees, the Health Sciences Center is a major asset to OKC and only about a mile from the middle of our central business district. Yet, these two areas are completely separated by a large freeway.

On the graphic below the proposed Phase II (or III) streetcar route is shown but especially if the GE Global Research Center goes in the HSC area, there would be tremendous benefit to better linking these two massive, important and ever-growing economic centers.

Other cities have buried freeways, built parks over them... What can we do to solve this problem, other than the streetcar?

[bchris02]

I would support burying the freeway. Other cities have done that like Boston with the big dig and Phoenix with I-10. It would be cool being that there aren't many such tunnels in this region of the country.

[catch22]

From a walkability standpoint, a ton of damage has already been done that will be very hard to correct to make it urban.

I think the 4th and Lincoln area is especially critical. It's easy to get someone to walk under an underpass as long as there is a destination on the other side. We see it with the railroad viaduct separating the CBD from Bricktown and Deep Deuce. We saw it with the old I-40 where people would park on the other side and cross underneath. We see it in the pedestrian tunnel under I-40 linking BHD to LBT.

Overpasses: very rare to see people walking across them for some reason. Lack of shelter maybe.

So, to me the 4th and Lincoln area is very critical in getting development to form a streetwall that coincides with the development on the west of I-235, using the underpass as a pedestrian tunnel. (Lighting and some sort of public art to make it better/feel safer) and then transition back to an urban streetwall on the other side.

With some proper development and streetscape and sidewalk improvements, we could see 4th and Lincoln become a nice pedestrian corridor.






Closer view:

[BoulderSooner]

HSC is never (not anytime soon anyway) going to be walkable to CBD. Heck the HSC is not walkable on its own. Which is one of the issues in bringing the streetcar there. Where do you go? And who do you serve?

[catch22]

I agree with you, Boulder. But, that doesn't mean we should completely give up. It will take a lot of time to un-do a lot of the walkability issues. It was built around the driving commuter, and still is.

[Pete]

The issue, IMO, is tying together the residential area of Deep Deuce / AA with the neighborhood south of 4th. That way, people that work or go to school can fill in the area between the two.

Then you've created a linkage between the two areas that can fill in and connect.

The HSC is about the same distance from the CBD as the main developments in Midtown.

[BoulderSooner]

Right just with a giant raised interstate in between

[lasomeday]

I agree with Catch22. We need to start having zoning that requires the street wall. The OIPA's buidling set back is suburban and that area is a waste. Everything east of 2-35 is suburban developed. Expanding the density zoning is a must to tie the two together.

Also eliminate the cloverleafs. That is a ton of wasted real estate creating half of the barrier.

[betts]

I've walked from Deep Deuce to the HSC a few times a year. You can also walk to 8th St. and catch the shuttle as well. It's not bad, really as long as the weather is decent.

[Just the facts]

You have to decide what kind of city you want, because the city is just a means to way of life. - Enrique Penalosa

While OKC has made some progress but the needle is still pegged far to the 'automobile' side of the guage. It is going to take a lot of people (maybe over 100,000) just to fill in Deep Deuce, CBD, Brictown, Midtown (which will become 3 or 4 unique neighboods), Auto Alley, Film Row and Core to Shore. Instead of a uniform pattern of density iminating out from downtown the 2nd ring urbanism will probable be more 'tent pole' in natue. HSC, Plaza District, Capial Hill, Stockyard City, Paseo, and maybe even Brittany can develop as centers of their own neighborhoods, with high density at the center with decreasing density as you move away from it. A cross-section would look like this: 'High - medium - low - medium - high - medium - low - medium - high', with the high's being about 1 mile apart and containing the transit stops.

The next step shouldn't be how to connect downtown and HSC, it should be to create a defined center of the HSC and urbanize it. Once you have that then connecting high density nodes is easy. I also wouldn't shed a tear if I-235 was removed when its initial life expectancy is reached.

So how do you urbanize the HSC? Step 1 should be to create a development plan for HSC that actually involves the public. To my knowledge the previous plans were developed by a single entity with little to no public input; and if they did seek public input in the past it is safe to say a lot more people are interested in the subject now that any time in the last 50 years. This plan should include deciding if HSC should be a mixed-use neighborhood or a medical district, moving away from modern single use zoning to a form based smart code, and incentives for in-fill.

[HotStuff80]

Just a thought: As a now-retired Physician, I can tell all that in many cases, patients cannot walk (due to various medical problems) over 1/2 a standard city block. Whatever conveyance they use, should be able to let them depart from it almost at the doorstep of their destination. Of course, this is much more easily accomplished in a city of 800,000 + which is only 7 x 7 miles (49 square miles).

We here in San Francisco, are fortunate, in that many city modes of transportation can let patients out in front of each medical clinic, hospital or other health care unit, of which they are members, or prefer to access for their medical care. If that is not possible, many facilities manage their own vans which take patents to-and-from places on their campus areas... all for free.

Just give this some thought. Thanks.

[Just the facts]

We here in San Francisco, are fortunate, in that many city modes of transportation can let patients out in front of each medical clinic, hospital or other health care unit, of which they are members, or prefer to access for their medical care.

That would be great if in OKC the front door was adjacent to the sidewalk where public transit operates. Even with a streetcar most people will have to walk across a flower bed, a hedge row, across a massive parking lot, or up a driveway without a sidewalk just to get to the front door of nearly every building in the HSC campus.

HSC needs to be made walkable first.

[CaptDave]

^ The default OKC solution is valet parking at hospitals.....for now.

[Tier2City]

I posted this comment over on the GE Research Center thread:

"Given that Miles & Associates designed the nearby PHF Research Park it will be interesting to see how urban the new site design is. Will an urban Midtown expand over the highway as the greater downtown districts are stitched back together?"

And Pete then pointed out that issue was exactly why he had started this thread. Perhaps cafeboeuf can answer - which body has design approval over this area?

[Urban Pioneer]

I've given up worrying about it. The current leadership has embraced a suburban design and there is no movement on any level (particularly political) to change.

Lets double the density of downtown and hope we set an example that other adjacent districts will follow.

JFK neighborhood is probably the best area where would could achieve density through new design. OUHSC proper is on a different path.

[CuatrodeMayo]

I’ve been thinking about this problem for a couple of years, but this thread gave me the impetus to put it down on paper as a blog post. I sketched this up over Thanksgiving. Click through for more information.

http://andrewkstewart.wordpress.com/2013/12/05/centennial-park/

[bradh]

Love it, should be good for MAPS9

That's awfully similar to Woodall Rogers in Dallas, right?

[CuatrodeMayo]

Yes. The same concept as Klyde Warren Park.

[dmoor82]

I would love to see something so ambitious to tie in the two areas, it would also create huge development opportunities. A project of this magnitude would be over a Billion Dollars, I'm guessing?

[Pete]

THAT's what I'm talking about!

Awesome job, Andrew.

[Urbanized]

That's a pretty amazing thing to think about.

[metro]

Has anyone else seen this proposed concept? I know it's wishful thinking but wanted to see what others thought. I like the idea of re-connecting the grid and making better use of interstate space in the urban core.

http://andrewkstewart.wordpress.com/...ntennial-park/




Mods - if you can change title to I-235 instead of I-240, it was an oversight on my part.

[sroberts24]

Yes Please!

[OKVision4U]

I am beginning to see a pattern here. All your designs make "way too much sense". If you are not the Lead on All Planning for OKC, then you should be. Great work again!

Whoever is placing these Clover-leafs in any of our new projects, should be ground for immediate dismissal. Dallas took the Central Expressway 75 and tightened their designs up with a business friendly approach. I like your approach so much more. This should not be a MAPS project, but a project that needs to happen immediately by the ODOT. Well done.

[Plutonic Panda]

That is so sick!!!!!!!