Fordson Hotel (formerly 21c Museum Hotel)

[Bellaboo]

I'd say some kind of monument.. maybe a fountain with some limited grounds, maybe some kind of observation point on top of an arch of some kind....like 6 to 8 floors tall. Something that would be a draw with the arts.

[Jeepnokc]

As a innocent bystander, I gotta agree with Steve on this one. When Pete made his first comment about "breaking the story" (which was snarky in nature), I went back to read the thread, as I didn't recall it going down that way. Sure enough, Pete had heard things about both locations, but didn't say confirmed until Steve had his piece online. I don't categorize this as breaking a story. I truly appreciate Pete's work and love this site, but it certainly seems that Pete has been been vocal in his desire/ambition to "outscoop" Steve and subsequently broadcast this chest puffing feat to the world. Steve has had his moments as well, but they have already been hashed out in other threads so I will not go into those.

You both do qaulity work and I religiously follow both, but the childish behavior is growing tiresome. Both of you need to man up and confront each other about your obvious passive agression towards one another and move on. Like adults.

I like you both and consider both my friends but just can't help to think what my 11 year old son likes to say whenever any of us are squabbling........[B]"Girls, Girls, you're both pretty". [/B] Sorry, just couldn't resist.

[soonerguru]

Housing! With perhaps a little retail on the ground floor.

There is zero new housing in a half a mile of that Fred Jones building and it's desperately needed before the district can have much life.

I'd love to see three or four decent-sized housing projects for the area between FJ and the CBD.

I agree that housing would be a great get for Film Row. With this announcement and the progress on the school, the timing seems right.

[Steve]

I wonder if there's a way to build a garage on the north half of that lot that would screen housing on the south half from the jail.... is the property big enough for that?

[Pete]

^
Not unless they acquire the marble / tile place north of that parcel.

What they own is not very deep.


Steve -- without revealing too much -- are you aware of other non Chip Fudge projects for Film Row or generally between 21c and the CBD?

I haven't heard a thing other than the City propose a large parking garage along Main, but that was only part of a high-level study done a couple of years ago.

(Reminder that in the graphic below, Jones/Hall properties are in yellow, City/Police in pink, developed and/or in good hands in green).

[Jeepnokc]

Pete

Has the first little building on NE corner of Classen and Main changed hands in last several years? Last time I looked at it, it was owned by the granite people. The second building and lot is Fred Jones but the first lot shouldn't be unless they sold it.

[Pete]

Pete

Has the first little building on NE corner of Classen and Main changed hands in last several years? Last time I looked at it, it was owned by the granite people. The second building and lot is Fred Jones but the first lot shouldn't be unless they sold it.

Yes, I believe they sold it because in my first graphic -- that I did about a year ago -- the Jones family did not own it and now they do.

It's a weird quirk of the County Assessor system that they often combine previously separate properties into one parcel/record when they fall under the same ownership.

There used to be two separate properties on the north side of Main, but now there is just one owned by Hall Capital. If I hadn't taken a screen shot (with parcels delineated) a couple of years ago, I never would have even noticed this change.

[Jeepnokc]

Any clue what it sold for? I had wanted that property before I bought my current lot but never could get price from them

[Pete]

^

See my revised post above.

This is just now one large parcel and there is not data of a sale, although a "non-sale" transaction took place on 10/4/13. I'm sure there was a sale between these two parties, but because the properties are now combined, that information is lost.

This same little wrinkle in the County system makes looking up sales data on other properties very deceiving. For example, Chesapeake bought dozens of separate properties for their main campus, but if you go to look it up on the assessor's system, you only see several large parcels. All the sales data on the small parcels is gone, unless you happen to know what those parcel #'s were (and for those properties, I do).

Leonard Sullivan Oklahoma County Assessor Real Property Detail Sheet

[Spartan]

I smell something bigger afoot.

[Jeepnokc]

Interesting that it just sold recently. Like I said before, I had talked with them and they said they were interested in selling it 6-7 years ago but could never get them past make offer and we really didn't haven't any clue what it was worth. It is a really small piece of land but does give them the opportunity to clean it up for the hotel.

[Teo9969]

You'd really like to see the Tile and Marble Building acquired and at least the metal building razed.

[Steve]

Yes, I believe they sold it because in my first graphic -- that I did about a year ago -- the Jones family did not own it and now they do.

It's a weird quirk of the County Assessor system that they often combine previously separate properties into one parcel/record when they fall under the same ownership.

There used to be two separate properties on the north side of Main, but now there is just one owned by Hall Capital. If I hadn't taken a screen shot (with parcels delineated) a couple of years ago, I never would have even noticed this change.

Starts to make more sense now, right?

[CuatrodeMayo]

Question to all of you: how do you think the property immediately north of the Fred Jones plant can be developed in a way that compliments the 21c hotel and yet can function with the jail in the background and also act as a visual buffer to the jail?

From an architectual perspective, yes. It would be pretty easy.

EDIT: I missed the "how" part of your question so I probably need to elaborate =)

[ljbab728]

I smell something bigger afoot.

Walgreens sells something for that, Spartan.

[bchris02]

How about a mixed-used commercial mid-rise? Have ground level retail and restaurants and maybe 5-7 stories of offices above it.

[Teo9969]

Sid, that really is a fantastic plan, and I'd be impressed like hell if we cold pull off something that well put together.

That being said…I would be a mix of enraged, depressed, disappointed, and despondent.

Why?

Because Oklahoma City's Art Scene is a joke. It's laughable, and embarrassing. And it's not because of a lack of quality people in the Arts. It's because so few in this town seem to actually, genuinely give a #$%! about them. Building a Stadium in the Arts District would be an unmistakable slap in the face to every person who has stuck around with their Arts career in this crap-hole-of-a-town-for-the-Arts.

It's already a joke that our "Arts District" is surrounded by a Jail, Municipal Court and Police Headquarters, has very few amenities, and can't even keep something like "The Oklahoma Contemporary" within its boundaries. Plopping down a Sports stadium (which Sports are arguably the #1 detractor from the Arts nationwide) in that same district just can't happen.

[catch22]

A modern mid rise office building would be perfect.



Hint of the old with a respectable dosage of modern. And ground floor retail.

[Mississippi Blues]

^I like that.

[ljbab728]

A modern mid rise office building would be perfect.



Hint of the old with a respectable dosage of modern. And ground floor retail.

I agree. The scale of something like that would fit in well with the area.

[Praedura]

A modern mid rise office building would be perfect.



Hint of the old with a respectable dosage of modern. And ground floor retail.

I can dig it!

That would contrast against the Fred Jones Building, but not in a bad way. I sense some synergy here.

Someone contact Gary Brooks and see if he can build that. Does he do office buildings?

[adaniel]

Sid, that really is a fantastic plan, and I'd be impressed like hell if we cold pull off something that well put together.
Because Oklahoma City's Art Scene is a joke. It's laughable, and embarrassing. And it's not because of a lack of quality people in the Arts. It's because so few in this town seem to actually, genuinely give a #$%! about them. Building a Stadium in the Arts District would be an unmistakable slap in the face to every person who has stuck around with their Arts career in this crap-hole-of-a-town-for-the-Arts.

It's already a joke that our "Arts District" is surrounded by a Jail, Municipal Court and Police Headquarters, has very few amenities, and can't even keep something like "The Oklahoma Contemporary" within its boundaries. Plopping down a Sports stadium (which Sports are arguably the #1 detractor from the Arts nationwide) in that same district just can't happen.

Wow. As someone who is only slightly involved with arts in this community, I find this quite insulting. No the arts community isn't as polished as some in other communities but its definitely here and thriving in a lot of corners. And lots do support it here...to suggest otherwise is a slap in the face to those people.

And please drop the sports and art as a zero sum game argument. Its at best untrue and at worst elitist. The Field Museum in Chicago is thriving and its across the street from Soldier Field for goodness sakes. Communities can and do have both.

[soonerguru]

Sid, that really is a fantastic plan, and I'd be impressed like hell if we cold pull off something that well put together.

That being said…I would be a mix of enraged, depressed, disappointed, and despondent.

Why?

Because Oklahoma City's Art Scene is a joke. It's laughable, and embarrassing. And it's not because of a lack of quality people in the Arts. It's because so few in this town seem to actually, genuinely give a #$%! about them. Building a Stadium in the Arts District would be an unmistakable slap in the face to every person who has stuck around with their Arts career in this crap-hole-of-a-town-for-the-Arts.

It's already a joke that our "Arts District" is surrounded by a Jail, Municipal Court and Police Headquarters, has very few amenities, and can't even keep something like "The Oklahoma Contemporary" within its boundaries. Plopping down a Sports stadium (which Sports are arguably the #1 detractor from the Arts nationwide) in that same district just can't happen.

Our arts scene is certainly not a joke. However, to your point, the nomenclature of "Arts District" is a joke. Perhaps instead of denigrating our otherwise fertile arts scene, you should advocate renaming the "Arts District."

[soonerguru]

A modern mid rise office building would be perfect.



Hint of the old with a respectable dosage of modern. And ground floor retail.

LOVE THIS. I'm very impressed with your design aesthetics.

[Teo9969]

Our arts scene is certainly not a joke. However, to your point, the nomenclature of "Arts District" is a joke. Perhaps instead of denigrating our otherwise fertile arts scene, you should advocate renaming the "Arts District."

Our Arts Scene is a joke because Arts are married to public input…and when the spouse of the Arts is in bed with everyone but the Arts…well…yes…it's a joke.

I really don't need any other example than how quickly and happily we approach the idea of razing Stage Center. Game. Set. Match.

I've even said the reverse of what you two are implying, which is that it's not for a lack of talent. On the contrary, there are lots of talented people in the Arts in OKC…you know how valued they are? They're lucky to make a lower to lower-middle class living pouring far more than 40 hours/week into their craft…oh, and at least 20 hours/week at a job that can actually pays on a regular basis.

The Thunder's most recent Gate Receipts in Forbes were $43M … I'd be very surprised if all the top Arts organizations total revenue was $43M combined. And that's total revenue for the Arts Orgs and not gate receipts…I'd be shocked if gate receipts totaled 10% of that $43M.