Fordson Hotel (formerly 21c Museum Hotel)

[Pete]

And I'm not taking these discussions any more to my Twitter or blog either. And I've often praised your work with this site. But we disagree greatly as to whether what you've started to do with this site is "breaking news" or "breaking the story." And I doubt that's going to change. So can we go back to talking about 21c?

It's not just about semantics, it's about taking credit and withholding it when due.

That seems to be the basis of the disagreement, and the point I wanted to make clear.

[Bellaboo]

Just a note here, as far as 3 weeks back I remember Steve specifically saying that he was tracking housing for the hotel Black when someone questioned it being turned into a boutique hotel.

This is all good discussion - keep the info channels open.

[Pete]

Just a note here, as far as 3 weeks back I remember Steve specifically saying that he was tracking housing for the hotel Black when someone questioned it being turned into a boutique hotel.

This is all good discussion - keep the info channels open.

Very well aware of that -- it's not what I'm referring to. Read back through this thread.

[Spartan]

End the feud! Stop it now this is nuts and immature. Never again shall The Feud rear it's head in another thread.

[Steve]

I agree. I've asked to go back to the topic repeatedly. Pete and I need to agree to disagree. What we do is different. That's where I'm at. Time to move on.

[Steve]

It was said recently that when actors publicly disagree the only winner is People Magazine. I don't see a winner in a "Pete v. Steve" thing, but everyone here wins when there is a Pete AND Steve thing.

The rules & roles of journalism & blogging are evolving, so this isn't unusual for two hard-working, competitive guys who love this city. I hope that you guys can take it offline and work things out. Let us know when that happens.

I agree.;

[warreng88]

Any guess as to what is going to go where in this building? I think Sid was talking about tearing down everything that backs up to the building excluding four buildings facing Sheridan for reuse and building a parking garage. I know at the Mansion at Forsyth Park in Savannah is 125 rooms complete with two restaurants and a cooking school. They have a small parking lot behind the hotel for parking for hotel guests only. I would think the taller portion of the building would house the hotel and restaurant and the smaller portion on the corner of Classen and Main would house the museum. Thoughts?

[warreng88]

As I look at the building again, maybe the restaurant would be better on the smaller side facing the corner of Main and Classen with a dedicated bar up stairs that way when they decide to tear down the ugly metal fence along Classen, they can put in a patio.

[Pete]

Happy Birthday, Sid!

[Jim Kyle]

Forgive me if my comment came off the wrong way. I'm just tired of all these threads turning into debates over my work.

If I offended you, please accept my apology. It's quite possible, especially with the change of ownership a couple of years ago, that the culture at Opubco has changed greatly since I worked there and they now do allow full freedom to staff writers to report facts as they are, rather than omitting details that don't further the corporate goals.

And I DO agree with your distinction between breaking the news, and breaking the story. Confirmation and usable quotes are very much a part of the full story. IMO that's why, as I said before, blogs and on-line forums don't (yet) count as "responsible journalism," although they're great fun and do frequently provide worthwhile service to the public interest (such as helping organize protest against "old boy" thinking in certain circles).

Keep up the good work!

[Rover]

Thanks Pete for the reminder I'm getting old.

Happy birthday!!

And if you are getting old, I'm getting ancient.

[Plutonic Panda]

The story is bigger than "who broke what". Today's information river is fed by multiple streams. When the story becomes about the information process and not the information, then everyone suffers.

Many or most of us are avid OKCTalk participants or viewers, and we also subscribe to the Daily OK. Both serve a valuable purpose and shouldn't be forced to compete.

Please, Steve and Pete, don't be drawn into a pi$$ing match that serves no one and only feeds those that would keep instigating it. 98% appreciate both sources and personalities.

+1

[Plutonic Panda]

I've known about 21c for a long time and so I know there is no scenario I'd accept where Steve didn't know about it too.

Pete, great job digging up what you did and get it out there to the people. Everyone here thoroughly enjoys and appreciates the effort you put into this site. It's the only website I can't stand not checking daily -largely because of the work you and others put into it, including Steve (though more so in the past).

Steve, keep doing the grunt, journalism work that has kept you employed for so many years. OKC Central and your connections are incredibly unique for a plains city our size. You've got a special talent and we all appreciate it a ton.

On to the 21c discussion...

I'm curious Steve, during your interviews with either the municipal, Alliance, or 21c leadership, did the topic of peripheral development come up. If I know you at all, I suspect you are working on a much longer piece on the topic of west downtown development trends and 'what to look for'. Can you tease out a few generalizations? Namely, I'm interested in which E/W road will become the "west-side" corridor, especially as it relates to transportation and early redevelopment efforts. Sheridan appears to be the logical one but there's still lots of room and time for surprises.

Cheers and happy holidays to everyone.

Happy birthday Sid! What can I get you for your __ birthday? Perhaps if I told you the idea of narrowing Classen has kind of grown on me is a gift maybe? lol

But seriously man, happy birthday to you and may your family have a great Thanksgiving and happy holidays man!

[BillyOcean]

As a innocent bystander, I gotta agree with Steve on this one. When Pete made his first comment about "breaking the story" (which was snarky in nature), I went back to read the thread, as I didn't recall it going down that way. Sure enough, Pete had heard things about both locations, but didn't say confirmed until Steve had his piece online. I don't categorize this as breaking a story. I truly appreciate Pete's work and love this site, but it certainly seems that Pete has been been vocal in his desire/ambition to "outscoop" Steve and subsequently broadcast this chest puffing feat to the world. Steve has had his moments as well, but they have already been hashed out in other threads so I will not go into those.

You both do qaulity work and I religiously follow both, but the childish behavior is growing tiresome. Both of you need to man up and confront each other about your obvious passive agression towards one another and move on. Like adults.

[Steve]

I
.....

On to the 21c discussion...

I'm curious Steve, during your interviews with either the municipal, Alliance, or 21c leadership, did the topic of peripheral development come up. If I know you at all, I suspect you are working on a much longer piece on the topic of west downtown development trends and 'what to look for'. Can you tease out a few generalizations? Namely, I'm interested in which E/W road will become the "west-side" corridor, especially as it relates to transportation and early redevelopment efforts. Sheridan appears to be the logical one but there's still lots of room and time for surprises.

Cheers and happy holidays to everyone.

Yes, there is a lot more in play for the west side. But I'm at not at liberty to get into details. I pretty much hinted at things in my column.

[Steve]

Question to all of you: how do you think the property immediately north of the Fred Jones plant can be developed in a way that compliments the 21c hotel and yet can function with the jail in the background and also act as a visual buffer to the jail?

[Urbanized]

Bail bonds!

[Steve]

Bail bonds!

(Watch Urbanized and I now get into an online fight....)

[shawnw]

Question to all of you: how do you think the property immediately north of the Fred Jones plant can be developed in a way that compliments the 21c hotel and yet can function with the jail in the background and also act as a visual buffer to the jail?

Sounds like a tower to me! Thanks for the good news Steve!

[Steve]

Sounds like a tower to me! Thanks for the good news Steve!

No, no... I'm not suggesting anything! I'm sincerely asking for your ideas!

[shawnw]

Was worth a try :-)

[kevinpate]

Thanks Pete for the reminder I'm getting old.

And here I thought you were like the rest of us, and your kiddos held that job full-time.

Happy BD

[Pete]

Housing! With perhaps a little retail on the ground floor.

There is zero new housing in a half a mile of that Fred Jones building and it's desperately needed before the district can have much life.

I'd love to see three or four decent-sized housing projects for the area between FJ and the CBD.

[Teo9969]

It's a rather low-key area of Downtown and based on the building stock, it will likely never be a particularly dense area/district for things like office/residential/retail/restaurant (in relation to other areas of downtown). It will have some of those things sure, but it's not going to be the go to area for any of this.

It is closest to the "Arts District", and whatever is built really ought to work in conjunction with this theme so that someday we will actually have an arts district.

I would think a mixed-use facility would be ideal, something between a 5 and 10 story building with residential or office on the top…maybe even a rooftop bar, but I can't decide if that cheapen's a potential rooftop bar by 21c.

If the jail is going to be around forever, then an art exhibit that specifically focuses on works themed around related things might be nice. It would be nice to have 2 galleries in one area so that you can make a long event of going to this part of town.

Other options include a small theater, live performance bar (in the cabaret, broadway, jazz vein), comedy club (I'm very meh on this idea), a dance studio - preferably with a performance space. It would be neat if the rooftop had some functionality to it, even if it weren't a bar…some sort of Rooftop Theater.

And again, if the jail is going to be there, we may as well embrace it and try and use the jail as inspiration for how we can create a unique, desirable (yes I know jail is anything but that), and fun/interesting area of town for both locals and visitors.

It really does need to be arts related though.

[Paseofreak]

^ Seems pretty reasonable, but it might be best to have extra emphasis on retail (boutique) to create some hustle and bustle across the street from the hotel for guests to interact with. Right now, I see a really lonely, very nice hotel. Who knows how the intervening years will change that.