Fordson Hotel (formerly 21c Museum Hotel)

[betts]

I'd really like to see a development (residential) built on the lot across and north of this. Something else to view out the hotel window besides the Oklahoma County Jail--not that any out of towners would know what it is. Will be nice if we hear that the family is actually looking to invest in some of their empty lots.

I figured that if we're forced to build a new jail we should turn the old one into housing. At least you know you can get out if there's a fire. Given the propensity of developers for these short names like LEVEL, the Edge, etc, I figured we could come up with a good name for it: The Cell, the Lock-up, Busted. Something like that.

[hoya]

I know a couple that literally won't go to downtown OKC. Why? Because the jail is there and they are afraid of a prison riot and the prisoners escaping and rioting through Bricktown killing at will. I'm serious.

Those people are stupid.

[foodiefan]

. . for Heaven's sake. ..the Civic Center is almost within spitting distance of the jail. Kudos to the "brave souls" who show up for the Phil, Pops, and all the other events that take place at the Civic Center. . .and " up the block" at the OKCMOA. I don't think "Downtown" is lusting for those "kind" of folks anyway. . . their loss. not ours.

[soonerguru]

I know a couple that literally won't go to downtown OKC. Why? Because the jail is there and they are afraid of a prison riot and the prisoners escaping and rioting through Bricktown killing at will. I'm serious.

Quoting Stanley Tucci from Devil Wears Prada: "What sad little people."

[soonerguru]

Well, they could have come to OKC without nearly this sort of risk, so I still don't completely get it.

I suspect there are two big incentives for them to take this particular site: 1) The building is amazing -- they probably fell in love with it; and 2) The Jones family may have made them an outstanding deal.

Clearly it was the sales job put on by Fred Hall. Hard to find fault with this project; it's going to be a big win for OKC.

[soonerguru]

Good points. I am sure the city is thinking about this from a long-term perspective. Does anybody see the existing districts to be fully gentrified by 2017ish to justify going in a new direction that soon?

Fully gentrified? Probably not. Gentrified enough? Yes.

[Just the facts]

I figured that if we're forced to build a new jail we should turn the old one into housing.

Prison Hotels: A Growing Trend (PHOTOS)

It would also make good dorm rooms for a downtown university campus.

[ljbab728]

Steve makes some good points about the location in his followup story.

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/3908548?embargo=1

But one question kept popping up after I broke the story Sunday in The Oklahoman: How can an upscale hotel and art museum open up in such a desolate section of downtown?

It's a fair question. A decade ago, any development west of Walker Avenue would have prompted curiosity and bewilderment. The area stretching from Reno Avenue to Main Street between Walker and Western avenues was littered with abandoned buildings frequented by vagrants.

Deep Deuce in 1993 was a wasteland of empty lots and boarded-up buildings. Bricktown was a struggling, aspiring entertainment district. The Central Business District was dead at night and on weekends. Automobile Alley also was a desolate stretch of boarded up buildings.

Skeptics had their doubts in 1993 and have since been proven wrong. And those who can't see the opportunity ahead with the Fred Jones property (a very cool, authentic 1916 Ford Model T plant) fail to understand and observe what is already transpiring.

Downtown is already growing to the west. The future John W. Rex Elementary School and the Hunsucker Law Firm building are both rising from the ground along Sheridan at Walker Avenue. Those two buildings alone will erase the scar

Have no doubt, the family won't sit on their remaining properties long once the deal with 21c Museum Hotels is completed. That possibility alone makes the museum-hotel proposal far more significant to the development of the west edge of downtown than many may realize.

[Teo9969]

Three questions

1. Which plots in the immediate area do the owners of the FJ building also own?

2. Are they currently developing in other areas of the city?

3. Which plots of land does the city own in the immediate area?

[Teo9969]

Steve makes some good points about the location in his followup story.

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/3908548?embargo=1

Eh…Bricktown got so much of the development in the late 90s early 2000s, and Deep Deuce has nabbed a majority of the more recent major development up until the last 2 years. For sure there were not near the number of areas in the city being developed when DD and BT really got going. Now you've got Midtown, Auto Alley, Finishing out Deep Deuce, some things in Bricktown, 23rd, Plaza, Western, C2S. There's just 5x the amount of competition from other districts for developers to consider than DD and BT had to deal with.

It's all certainly possible, but the economy, local and national, is going to have to strengthen over the next 5 years and serious amounts of outside capital are going to need to be coming in if we're going to stretch this far west in the short term.

Also, if you're using 1993 as the start date and coming all the way to 2008 when DD really started getting some momentum, you're talking about 15 years. 21c doesn't have 15 years for this area to get working. If this area doesn't get major development in the next 5, I fear 21c is going to be less than impressed with OKC.

On a more positive note, they did put up that RFP for the lot off RSK and, what was it, Dewey/Lee or Lee/Shartel? That will also hopefully be a solid proposal that will help spur on the west side of DT.

[Pete]

Also, Steve did not break this story. We did, days before his Sunday article.

Here are the properties owned by the Jones family:

[shawnw]

Imagine staying at this hotel during deadcenter Film Festival.

Heck, imagine it being added to the venue list! (since they specifically mention film screenings as one of the event types they'd host)

[UnFrSaKn]

Pioneering developers pointing west in Oklahoma City | NewsOK.com
(Mobile)

[Urbanized]

Teo, I don't think the downtown districts "compete" with each other as much as you represent. I believe development in district A and/or B makes development in district C an easier sell to users, residents, investors, and bankers. Bricktown stagnated for a while, yet now seems to be gaining as much or more momentum as it's ever had, despite (because of?) major development in other districts. Downtown is downtown is downtown, or - put another way - a high tide floats all boats.

[bradh]

I know a couple that literally won't go to downtown OKC. Why? Because the jail is there and they are afraid of a prison riot and the prisoners escaping and rioting through Bricktown killing at will. I'm serious.

your parents?

[lasomeday]

I'm excited about the new hotel and it being an art museum. The west side of downtown is devoloping into a massive arts district with the Art Museum, Art galleries on Film Row, Civic Center, Carpenter Square on Main, The Paramount, radio station, etc.

This is just another spark that will continue to draw development west. The fact that it is more than just a hotel will draw more development around it. Having a massive art gallery with a restaurant will make it a destination, and will draw development to Classen.

I could also see a massive rooftop bar ontop of the hotel.

Does anyone know how old the tiny building to the north of the Fred Jones plant is? It looks like it could have been built in 1900?

[lasomeday]

Teo, I don't think the downtown districts "compete" with each other as much as you represent. I believe development in district A and/or B makes development in district C an easier sell to users, residents, investors, and bankers. Bricktown stagnated for a while, yet now seems to be gaining as much or more momentum as it's ever had, despite (because of?) major development in other districts. Downtown is downtown is downtown, or - put another way - a high tide floats all boats.

I agree.... more development downtown in any district means less development in NW OKC or South OKC. I feel that downtown is drawing more local businesses and the sububuran growth is all chains. So the more downtown grows the more local businesses and corporations will thrive.

[Plutonic Panda]

I agree.... more development downtown in any district means less development in NW OKC or South OKC. I feel that downtown is drawing more local businesses and the sububuran growth is all chains. So the more downtown grows the more local businesses and corporations will thrive.

I highly doubt that, but alright.

[OKVision4U]

I agree.... more development downtown in any district means less development in NW OKC or South OKC. I feel that downtown is drawing more local businesses and the sububuran growth is all chains. So the more downtown grows the more local businesses and corporations will thrive.

Local developers / Real Estate groups may have a smaller pool of dollars to spread around. That is true. Yes, we want to see outside investment continue to pour-in so our "local investment dollars" are able to fund Other projects. Success breeds success. Just like this project, 21c Museum, this outside dollar allows for the local developer to spend in the surrounding adjacent properties as well. You need both. And, the suburban growth is the same, but with a different group of national developers (chains) that have a different business model, but they need the local deveoper / small retail store to invest too. Again, you need both.

[Jeepnokc]

There are two buildings on the north side. The one to the west belongs to the Granite Company behind it. They use it for storage. I looked at buying the property before I bought my Film Exchange lot 6-7 years ago. They told my realtor that they would entertain offers to sale but would never give us a number so I went with the lot instead. The other building belongs to the Fred Jones family. Interesting building as it is two stories but doesn't look like a lot of sq footage on either floor. (very small footprint)

[warreng88]

From Steve's article:

The Fred Jones property, 800 W Main, is just one block to the north of Film Row and technically an extension of that district. The entire block, and several properties to the north, east and south, are owned by the Hall family. The family's members are proud descendants of the local early day automotive pioneer Fred Jones, and they have rebuffed plenty of development proposals for the block that they deemed too ordinary.

Have no doubt, the family won't sit on their remaining properties long once the deal with 21c Museum Hotels is completed. That possibility alone makes the museum-hotel proposal far more significant to the development of the west edge of downtown than many may realize.

This is what gets me the most excited about this property and the impending surrounding development.

[Just the facts]

I agree.... more development downtown in any district means less development in NW OKC or South OKC.

Absolutely correct. A strong and growing urban core reduces the expansion of the suburban fringe.

[Urbanized]

Absolutely correct. A strong and growing urban core reduces the expansion of the suburban fringe.

I'm very good with reducing (or even halting) significant EXPANSION of the suburban fringe, but still want to see the suburban areas to which we are already committed remain stable and in fact ALSO see new and interesting development. I mean, we have already made the investment in those areas, and besides, the city is only as good as ALL of its parts. I think it only becomes a zero-sum game when we continue to allow unchecked new expansion at the fringes - which creates a geometric growth in public infrastructure investment and responsibility, as you often aptly point out - IN LIEU OF quality suburban infill and redevelopment. There are plenty of people who will never adopt an urban lifestyle, and that is fine. We should focus on making our existing suburbs better, and at the same time make exurban greenfield development less attractive by fully shifting the expanding financial burden of it all to the people who insist on going there.

But when it comes to development within the city's center (which I would characterize as inside the old Grand Avenue loop), I say all of it is good, and ALL of it benefits EVERYONE ELSE within that boundary.

[Praedura]

From Steve's article:

The Fred Jones property, 800 W Main, is just one block to the north of Film Row and technically an extension of that district. The entire block, and several properties to the north, east and south, are owned by the Hall family. The family's members are proud descendants of the local early day automotive pioneer Fred Jones, and they have rebuffed plenty of development proposals for the block that they deemed too ordinary.

Have no doubt, the family won't sit on their remaining properties long once the deal with 21c Museum Hotels is completed. That possibility alone makes the museum-hotel proposal far more significant to the development of the west edge of downtown than many may realize.

This is what gets me the most excited about this property and the impending surrounding development.

Note the typo/error on the address in the article. It should be 900 W. Main.

[Pete]

As illustrated in the aerial I've posted several times, the Jones family doesn't own a huge amount of property in that area, especially when you consider they will have to provide a lot of parking for the hotel.

It will take scores of property owners to truly redevelop and bridge this development to the rest of downtown.