Trooper Brian Orr (OU Tackle Trooper) Should Be Arrested

[RadicalModerate]

Notice I haven't weighed back in on my own thread. I really wanted to see the reaction and if I was the only one that was bothered by the praise for Brian Orr. A lot of legal angles back and forth that's been interesting and well-stated by several. But I'm still most interested in the action itself. I knew I wanted to come back and ask this final question...

Consider for just a moment a different outcome. Consider that the guy didn't get up last week after the blindsided body blow from Brian Orr. Midtowner said it well when he said that, "it was only by sheer luck," that the guy didn't get injured. I agree with that and will take it one step further. Had the man not gotten up, and ended up instead of in handcuffs, but surrounded by medical personnel and the ambulance on the field, etc. Suppose he died instantly from a neck snap, severed spinal cord, etc. The man's punishment for just being ridiculous at a football game would have been the death penalty. How would you think about this then? When you go back and watch the tape over and over, would you still have said Orr did the right thing by charging at him and the over-the-top blow? Or, would you be saying, "Yeah, I can't believe with no pads or helmets the trooper would have blindsided that guy and killed him. He could have easily run up to him, pulled him into the cuff position and cuffed him and walk off the field." I contend that had the (very possible) fatal injury actually occurred, there would have been a widespread worldwide outrage and demands for murder charges against the over-zealous LEO.

Bottom line for me: Trooper Brian Orr lucked out. I think the actual action is enough for discipline, but I understand those who might not think so. But had the guy died of a broken neck or whatever last week - I honestly believe Brian Orr would be in jail on manslaughter or murder charges. The outrage would be loud from across the country. People would see that tape in a completely different way. Few would have said that the guy on the field really deserved that kind of hit from this overloaded-on-testerorone Highway Patrol Trooper. I hope Orr realizes just how lucky he really is.

Does all of that mean, "Case Closed"? Or is there still some self-inflicted hand-wringing, shoulder-shrugging, and general unhappiness going on?

[ThomPaine]

It's always hilarious to watch non-lawyers argue about the law with actual lawyers.

But alas, trials aren't always decided by lawyers (or judges), are they? If this fool had been injured, there are probably enough of his "peers" that would have found negligence on the part of the Trooper, and the State would have lost some money. If I'm on the jury, the guy gets nothing. At some point, you have to take responsibility for your actions. If you do stupid things, bad things happen to you.

Of course, if he was injured, I would prefer his healthcare be covered under a universal care plan, but that's a whole other topic.

[kevinpate]

We've had a lot of what if and but, if throughout our discussion. As it is the holiday season, I tend to look at what if and but, if in a general pattern, and have for a good spell

were ifs and buts
candies and nuts,
what a Christmas it would be

and if all the frogs had .45's, the snakes would hide in trees.

Keep the shiny side up today folks. Barring any emergencies, I'm staying bare foot and indoors today.

[ThomPaine]

We've had a lot of what if and but, if throughout our discussion. As it is the holiday season, I tend to look at what if and but, if in a general pattern, and have for a good spell

were ifs and buts
candies and nuts,
what a Christmas it would be

and if all the frogs had .45's, the snakes would hide in trees.

Keep the shiny side up today folks. Barring any emergencies, I'm staying bare foot and indoors today.

A couple variants:

If frogs had pockets they'd carry guns to shoot snakes.

and of course...

"If a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his ass a hoppin'."

[RadicalModerate]

"IF" . . . the biggest little two letter word in the universe.

[ThomPaine]

"IF" . . . the biggest little two letter word in the universe.

Funny, a frog once told me that too. (I had to translate from French.)

[RadicalModerate]

Funny, a frog once told me that too. (I had to translate from French.)

"Mon Dieu . . . Zoot Alors."

[MWCGuy]

Sounds to me that somebody has some personal issues they need to work out in regards to the OHP or law enforcement in general.

Security or police would have tackled him at some point. If they let the guy runaround and delay the game, that probably would have result in thousands of angry fans upset that they paid to see they game not some chowder head do a "WHOO HOO LOOK AT ME I'M DRUNK!!

Obviously the guy was not hurt otherwise Joe Ambulance Chaser Attorney at Law would have been on the news holding a press conference announcing a lawsuit with Mr. Whackadoodle sitting in a wheelchair with a neck brace and a head bandage claiming how he is out money and can't return to the Jiffy Lube to earn his check to feed his family.

At the end the day we have to stop taking ourselves way too seriously. We have to see things for what they are. We can't get caught up in what if scenarios and self righteous talk about how something we believe shouldn't happened and talk about how people need to be more regimented and proper. Sometimes we need to just keep moving and not let things bother us so much.

[bombermwc]

Or maybe, just maybe, he was trespassing and got what he deserved. Being drunk isn't an excuse or an "out" for bad choices. Why should the officers have to casually walk up to the idiot that knew what was going to happen to him?

If wants to file a charge of excessive force, then that's HIS right. No sympathy for the idiot.

[Roger S]

Notice I haven't weighed back in on my own thread. I really wanted to see the reaction and if I was the only one that was bothered by the praise for Brian Orr. A lot of legal angles back and forth that's been interesting and well-stated by several. But I'm still most interested in the action itself. I knew I wanted to come back and ask this final question...

Consider for just a moment a different outcome. Consider that the guy didn't get up last week after the blindsided body blow from Brian Orr. Midtowner said it well when he said that, "it was only by sheer luck," that the guy didn't get injured. I agree with that and will take it one step further. Had the man not gotten up, and ended up instead of in handcuffs, but surrounded by medical personnel and the ambulance on the field, etc. Suppose he died instantly from a neck snap, severed spinal cord, etc. The man's punishment for just being ridiculous at a football game would have been the death penalty. How would you think about this then? When you go back and watch the tape over and over, would you still have said Orr did the right thing by charging at him and the over-the-top blow? Or, would you be saying, "Yeah, I can't believe with no pads or helmets the trooper would have blindsided that guy and killed him. He could have easily run up to him, pulled him into the cuff position and cuffed him and walk off the field." I contend that had the (very possible) fatal injury actually occurred, there would have been a widespread worldwide outrage and demands for murder charges against the over-zealous LEO.

Bottom line for me: Trooper Brian Orr lucked out. I think the actual action is enough for discipline, but I understand those who might not think so. But had the guy died of a broken neck or whatever last week - I honestly believe Brian Orr would be in jail on manslaughter or murder charges. The outrage would be loud from across the country. People would see that tape in a completely different way. Few would have said that the guy on the field really deserved that kind of hit from this overloaded-on-testerorone Highway Patrol Trooper. I hope Orr realizes just how lucky he really is.

So if this man had been at an aquarium and chose to jump in the shark tank. Would it be the sharks fault for eating him?

Why do you not want to hold the offender accountable for his own actions? Do you think Brian Orr went to work that day saying to himself "Man, if anyone steps foot on that field today I'm going to plant them so deep they won't sprout until next spring!"?

You go do his job for a day, and when some idiot runs out on the field. You see if your adrenaline spikes and your instincts kick in or if you stand there and try to rationalize what your best move should be in a split second.

[Midtowner]

Out of the many officers present, only Orr thought the tackle was the best way to apprehend someone. He's not a mindless shark, or if he is, he has no business being in possession of a badge and a gun.

[OKVision4U]

"They bought their ticket, they knew what they were getting into, ...I say Let'm crash!" Airplane.

We all have to be responsible / professional / and throw in some maturity in there too / for our own actions. Small intentions can lead to greater actions by others.

Randy Johnson was pitching a game several years back, and while he was pitching a bird flew in front of the baseball. Randy could hit 100 mph with a ball. Yes, the bird was dead. ( wrong place / wrong time ). It doesn't bother me one bit that he ran on to the "field of play", ...it happens all the time. He has to take responsiblity for his own actions, even if well intended. The officers, well I hope they continue to be professional in the actions too. That's it.

[Roger S]

Out of the many officers present, only Orr thought the tackle was the best way to apprehend someone. He's not a mindless shark, or if he is, he has no business being in possession of a badge and a gun.

Awesome job of taking that part of my post out of context.

[Midtowner]

You provided fodder for a pretty decent analogy. Thanks for that.

[hoya]

So anyone committing any sort of crime should be tackled? Jaywalking, littering, playing loud music at night, public drunk, all misdemeanors. Are they deserving a full speed tackle? If not, what makes this particular crime so heinous? Public safety?

"That guy crossed the street in an unusual manner. He appeared to be aggressively moving towards that building. He might have had a gun or a bomb. So I tackled him."

"That guy threw something on the ground. It could have been drugs or a weapon. So I tackled him."

Fans run on the field regularly. It happens several times a month, at nearly every type of sporting event. And while occasionally the fan gets tackled, most of the time they're apprehended nonviolently and led off the field.

[Roger S]

So anyone committing any sort of crime should be tackled? Jaywalking, littering, playing loud music at night, public drunk, all misdemeanors. Are they deserving a full speed tackle? If not, what makes this particular crime so heinous? Public safety?

"That guy crossed the street in an unusual manner. He appeared to be aggressively moving towards that building. He might have had a gun or a bomb. So I tackled him."

"That guy threw something on the ground. It could have been drugs or a weapon. So I tackled him."

Fans run on the field regularly. It happens several times a month, at nearly every type of sporting event. And while occasionally the fan gets tackled, most of the time they're apprehended nonviolently and led off the field.

So if it happens occasionally. This man should not be surprised at all that it happened to him. The possibilty existed. He gambled and lost. Let him take responsibilty for his irresponsible behavior and stop trying to pin it on someone else that was doing the job they were hired to do.

[Midtowner]

So if it happens occasionally. This man should not be surprised at all that it happened to him. The possibilty existed. He gambled and lost. Let him take responsibilty for his irresponsible behavior and stop trying to pin it on someone else that was doing the job they were hired to do.

Interesting that you would suggest that. Saying he was hired to tackle people and drive them to the ground would be how someone like me would pass liability on to the University and OHP. In theory and in law, employers do not hire people to commit intentional torts like battery.

[Roger S]

Interesting that you would suggest that. Saying he was hired to tackle people and drive them to the ground would be how someone like me would pass liability on to the University and OHP. In theory and in law, employers do not hire people to commit intentional torts like battery.

Excuse me? Where did I say he was hired to tackle anyone?

I say his intent was to remove the individual from the field...... Which he did a very good job of.

[ultimatesooner]

"They bought their ticket, they knew what they were getting into, ...I say Let'm crash!" Airplane.

We all have to be responsible / professional / and throw in some maturity in there too / for our own actions. Small intentions can lead to greater actions by others.

Randy Johnson was pitching a game several years back, and while he was pitching a bird flew in front of the baseball. Randy could hit 100 mph with a ball. Yes, the bird was dead. ( wrong place / wrong time ). It doesn't bother me one bit that he ran on to the "field of play", ...it happens all the time. He has to take responsiblity for his own actions, even if well intended. The officers, well I hope they continue to be professional in the actions too. That's it.

i remember the Randy Johnson bird slaughter - looked like lightning hit a pillow

[Zuplar]

I've tried to keep out of this thread because I know it's just going to rage on with the other side telling the other they are wrong. But catching up on some of the posts I can't help but think of this with regards to what our lawyer friends are saying in this thread.

Greta: Mr. Reede, several years ago a friend of mine had a burglar on her roof, a burglar. He fell through the kitchen skylight, landed on a cutting board, on a butcher's knife, cutting his leg. The burglar sued my friend, he sued my friend. And because of guys like you *he won*. My friend had to pay the burglar $6,000. Is that justice?
Fletcher: No!
Fletcher: I'd have got him ten.

[hoya]

Excuse me? Where did I say he was hired to tackle anyone?

I say his intent was to remove the individual from the field...... Which he did a very good job of.

In your previous post you said:

Let him take responsibilty for his irresponsible behavior and stop trying to pin it on someone else that was doing the job they were hired to do.

The officer either was told by his employer that tackling guys who run on the field is okay, or he was not. If he was not, then any tort claim is arguably only against the officer. If his employer told him it was a-okay, then any claim also goes against the employer.

[Roger S]

In your previous post you said:



The officer either was told by his employer that tackling guys who run on the field is okay, or he was not. If he was not, then any tort claim is arguably only against the officer. If his employer told him it was a-okay, then any claim also goes against the employer.

You are the one saying tackle... I say he was hired to remove him from the field... Which is what he did.

[OKVision4U]

i remember the Randy Johnson bird slaughter - looked like lightning hit a pillow

It was the "oddest" thing ever.... Poof, ...feathers.

Guys the officer has a "range" of actions he can employ into this situation ( OHP industry standards). He chose Non-leathal / Single action.. Not-repeated action, over, and over. There is Zero exposure here.

[David]

But alas, trials aren't always decided by lawyers (or judges), are they? If this fool had been injured, there are probably enough of his "peers" that would have found negligence on the part of the Trooper, and the State would have lost some money. If I'm on the jury, the guy gets nothing. At some point, you have to take responsibility for your actions. If you do stupid things, bad things happen to you.

Of course, if he was injured, I would prefer his healthcare be covered under a universal care plan, but that's a whole other topic.

So you are saying if you were selected for the jury in this hypothetical case, the evidence presented in the trial would mean nothing because you have already decided your verdict?

I don't think I'm the one who doesn't know how the law is supposed to work.

[tomokc]

200 posts on nine pages, most of which have to do with parsing the words of other posters and posing a myriad of hypothetical situations.

Lock.