Daebak K

[Urbanized]

Waffle Champion is experiencing similar issues in Midtown. Like I said - though it seems counterintuitive at first glance - it's a sign of an area that is succeeding. Unfortunately for many years in OKC's seminal entertainment district, parking challenges were interpreted as failure, and it led to a number of overreactions.

We now have the benefit of hindsight, and hopefully emerging districts can avoid those same mistakes as their popularity and densities increase.

[HangryHippo]

Waffle Champion is experiencing similar issues in Midtown. Like I said - though it seems counterintuitive at first glance - it's a sign of an area that is succeeding. Unfortunately for many years in OKC's seminal entertainment district, parking challenges were interpreted as failure, and it led to a number of overreactions.

We now have the benefit of hindsight, and hopefully emerging districts can avoid those same mistakes as their popularity and densities increase.

What should be done to help ensure these areas continue to succeed? Leave it to work itself out? Parking garage? Redo 23rd? Neighborhood parking?

[kevinpate]

The best thing that can happen, here and elsewhere, is for peeps to adjust their thinking

From:
I ain't going to X if I can't park at/near the entrance

To:
I wanna be at X tonight and if it means walking a block, well, it's worth it.

[Plutonic Panda]

What should be done to help ensure these areas continue to succeed? Leave it to work itself out? Parking garage? Redo 23rd? Neighborhood parking?

I just wouldn't really worry too much about. Build a few parking garages in the area, but people really ought to learn to walk a little. One thing I can understand is not knowing an area and wanting to stray too far away from your vehicle.

[Urbanized]

What should be done to help ensure these areas continue to succeed? Leave it to work itself out? Parking garage? Redo 23rd? Neighborhood parking?

I think in the case of the 23rd street corridor, there is already tons of parking in the area. In fact I would love to see some of it go away, courtesy infill. But what is there is not even halfway utilized. One of the best things that could happen is for the street to be made safer and more appealing for pedestrians, so that walking a bit or even across the street becomes a more attractive option for them.

Also, a thoughtful approach to mixed use development that varies the times that people are there (rather than clumping them there all at once) will help greatly. That way demand will be spread out during the day. It appears The Rise is developing in this way.

[Teo9969]

It's going to be hard to control traffic volumes during business hours because of how much traffic the Capital brings. Walkability of this area is going to depend on how well they place a barrier between the developments and the streets. I would almost be for the removal of the 23rd parking and extending the curb all the way out and lining the street with trees and short shrubs.

[Teo9969]

Attachment 5058

Not really.

I'd love to spin this any good way possible…but that's written by the president of the Uptown 23rd District Association…

Just way unprofessional given the position that the Seals are in. Very very disappointed in them.

[kevinpate]

Just as the lot owner has the right to sign his property as he elects, so does the owner of Grandad's.

I don't have to agree with the position, or even patronize a place, to support an owner's right to make a business decision.

[Urbanized]

I'd love to spin this any good way possible…but that's written by the president of the Uptown 23rd District Association…

Just way unprofessional given the position that the Seals are in. Very very disappointed in them.

I thought the same thing. They are really good folks; I think this just shows a high level of frustration.

But you're right, running/revitalizing a district requires a deft touch. Believe it or not, no matter how good it seems things are going, there are always going to be around 20% of property owners who are "aginners" or uncooperative. This is an established Main Street truism. If you're accepting a role as a district leader, your job is to continue try to win those folks over, not to drive the wedge further, no matter how difficult those folks may be. This is especially challenging for people who are also running businesses, who are personally invested, and potentially harmed by the actions of an "aginner".

[Teo9969]

Just as the lot owner has the right to sign his property as he elects, so does the owner of Grandad's.

I don't have to agree with the position, or even patronize a place, to support an owner's right to make a business decision.

Having the right to do something does not make it the right thing to do.

Informing your customers is one thing…being the president of the district association and then calling another business owner an asshole is another. How could any other business owner on 23rd read that and not question the leadership of Mrs. Seal even if they agree with her.

[onthestrip]

I just wouldn't really worry too much about. Build a few parking garages in the area, but people really ought to learn to walk a little. One thing I can understand is not knowing an area and wanting to stray too far away from your vehicle.

Build a few parking garages..? First, who is going to build these parking garages? It definitely wont be a private developer as its too expensive and not enough demand to justify. I doubt the city will eminent domain property to build one. Also, you will have tons of backlash from the neighborhoods if there were to be a 4 story parking garage.

It'll basically have to be land owners working out agreements between each other and maybe some coordination with the city on side street parking. But I think the parking garage talk is definitely premature and more likely unnecessary to begin with.

[Pete]

There are quite a few smaller lots all along 23rd and one block north.

Many of them are only used during the day (office buildings, retail, services) and thus would be mostly empty in the evenings when the bar and music scene cranks up.

It's a simple matter of the merchant group getting organized and sharing parking between businesses; perhaps create a shared fund that is allocated in an equitable way.

[warreng88]

Lower Greenville in Dallas is very much like this area and there doesn't seem to be an issue with parking behind or next to the stores and walking a block or two to the destination.

[Plutonic Panda]

Build a few parking garages..? First, who is going to build these parking garages? It definitely wont be a private developer as its too expensive and not enough demand to justify. I doubt the city will eminent domain property to build one. Also, you will have tons of backlash from the neighborhoods if there were to be a 4 story parking garage.

It'll basically have to be land owners working out agreements between each other and maybe some coordination with the city on side street parking. But I think the parking garage talk is definitely premature and more likely unnecessary to begin with.

The question was, what do we do about parking. My main answer to that is, not much. Just let the issue go. OKC is is reaching the point to where these businesses won't have to rely people with cars as more urban housing continues. If something had to be done, then I'd say build a 2-3 story parking garage or two and reduce the surface parking.

Like I said, people here should really be encouraged to walk a little ways instead of getting frustrated because they can't park somewhere within five feet of their destination. So really, instead of asking how to solve the parking problem, turn that question into- how do we encourage people to walk further? In all reality, I have yet to experience any kind of parking issue here in OKC. I know they say parking is getting really bad, but I've been to downtown almost any hour of the day and have quickly located a parking space. From what I've heard about San Fran, London, NYC, Berlin and other major cities, we have got it good.

Oklahoma: I better have the ability to park right in front of my destination or this city has a real parking problem going on here; I also better be the only driver on the highway or we have real traffic issue lol

[adaniel]

There are quite a few smaller lots all along 23rd and one block north.

Many of them are only used during the day (office buildings, retail, services) and thus would be mostly empty in the evenings when the bar and music scene cranks up.

It's a simple matter of the merchant group getting organized and sharing parking between businesses; perhaps create a shared fund that is allocated in an equitable way.

Last week I went to Back Door BBQ. There is a pretty sizable lot accessible from the alley that was full. Parked on the street at 24th and Hudson. Not an issue at all.

I hate parking in the lot by the Beauty Place anyway with its crater sized potholes.

[warreng88]

I'd love to spin this any good way possible…but that's written by the president of the Uptown 23rd District Association…

Just way unprofessional given the position that the Seals are in. Very very disappointed in them.

Just for clarification, Jenifer Seal is not the President of the Uptown 23rd District, Kurt Shewmaker is.

[PhiAlpha]

Having the right to do something does not make it the right thing to do.

Informing your customers is one thing…being the president of the district association and then calling another business owner an asshole is another. How could any other business owner on 23rd read that and not question the leadership of Mrs. Seal even if they agree with her.

Can't say I disagree with her. Look at the condition of Queens Beauty Supply next time you walk by it. That guy is an asshole for being a slum lord.

[kevinpate]

Having the right to do something does not make it the right thing to do. ...

FWIW, I did not offer any opinion on whether the Grandad's sign was a wise business decision.
They made a choice to draw it up and put it up on their entrance.

Whether it lights consumers up positively or negatively, it's a business decision. They own any consequences which flow from the decision, good or bad.

[Teo9969]

Just for clarification, Jenifer Seal is not the President of the Uptown 23rd District, Kurt Shewmaker is.

did that change recently?

[warreng88]

did that change recently?

Not sure. All the articles I am pulling that show Mrs. Seal as President are from 2012 and all the ones that show Kurt as President are from 2013.

[Teo9969]

I thought I saw a quote in a write up about the Rise that called her President of some 23rd association. There might be multiple.

[tillyato]

There was a recent article about the Rise that called her the chairwoman of Uptown 23rd. It was a misprint, Kurt is the current president of the Uptown 23rd District Association.

[Teo9969]

Thanks, tillyato!

Still not my favorite course of action, but it's a lot easier to swallow with that information.

[Pete]

The liquor license application for this project comes before the planning commission next Thursday, Dec. 12th.

This will be a 3,320 square foot restaurant called SOJU, which implies it will have a Korean slant (SOJU is a Korean alcoholic beverage).

Troung Le, one of the partners of the very highly regarded Guernsey Park restaurant, is the applicant.

Location is right between Tuckers to the west and Subway to the east. Grandad's and Back Door BBQ are directly across 23rd.

[lasomeday]

Awesome! We need a great Korean restaurant in OKC! We have 0! Can't wait!