Memorial Stadium Master Plan

[onthestrip]

...if we end up 8-4, then Bob will need something he can sell to the upper level recruits. The difference makers. If it is great "enhancement" that has the WOW factor, then yes. If it is just a few more suites w/ a new pressbox, then that will only be a small impact to the High Level Difference maker recruits. A big difference between the two. Is it worth the gamble? ...I don't want to use the Go Big or go home, but yes, it is a priority. Remember, this is about football players and you have to have the right ones on your sideline when the game starts.

I'm guessing but I have a feeling high school athletes care more about the quality of locker rooms, players lounges, training facilities rather than if there are more suites or club levels. They don't use those, they aren't spectators. I doubt adding capacity and new suites factors much compared to the slick new athletic dorms or Switzer center. I think you might be over-reacting from 2 losses.

[SoonerDave]

Well, we certainly need a big boost in the OU stadium now. With all the negative press we are having now, a new stadium expansion would be a tool that Bob Stoops could use to get a few receivers that can catch. A Tight End that can be a difference maker. Some D-line / Some run stopping MLB's. ...a punter, a kicker, an offensive line that can keep them off the QB's back for a 4 count.

When Baylor is OUT-Recruiting you, then we have to WOW them into Norman.

So why isn't UCLA, which plays in the Rose Bowl, and seats just under 100K based on its most recent upgrades, isn't winning national titles every year?

How long has Tennessee, with its 100K capacity, been all-but irrelevant to CFB?

You know what? OU needs to win. Oregon didn't buy a 100K seat facility first; they started winning. Stanford, if I'm correct, tore down a facility and replaced it with a smaller one - and started (and continued) winning.

If all it takes is a giant stadium and great, flashy scoreboards, why aren't schools just running to Jerry Jones and begging to rent out JerryWorld?

I guess my frustration in this thread is the fact that I am a HUGE ADVOCATE of proper, smart upgrades and expansion to OMS. But this blind notion of "we've gotta go to 100K NOW or we're doomed" just makes it nearly impossible to be such an advocate without it simultaneously sounding like we have to just start throwing bricks and chairs at the stadium.

I'm first in line to suggest we need a new pressbox and corresponding suites. That's smart. That's sensible. But this seeming insistence that we have to expand to 100K (or whatever the number is this week) or Face Ultimate Doom (tm) is, well, exhausting. It just makes the effort to discuss good ways to continue upgrading our stadium seem kinda futile - like if you don't advocate the Blind Upgrade to the Next Biggest Factor Of Ten, that somehow you're Just Not a Real Fan. Heck, I read an article in the last two weeks where some Nebraska folks are speculating they've expanded their stadium too much and too quickly.

OU has bigger problems than their stadium. We've got what looks to many observers like a train wreck within the offensive coaching staff, with mismanaged talent and misguided playcalling. Right or wrong, that public perception gets recruits' attention, too. National media is starting to look at Oklahoma and ask "What on earth is going on down there?" What TE in their right mind would come to OU right now (regardless of stadium size), given what they haven't done with TE's since Gresham was done going into the 2009 season?

Its about perspective, folks. I don't mean to rain on the parade of enthusiasm for enhancing OMS, but its just one piece of the puzzle.

[traxx]

Well, we certainly need a big boost in the OU stadium now. With all the negative press we are having now, a new stadium expansion would be a tool that Bob Stoops could use to get a few receivers that can catch. A Tight End that can be a difference maker. Some D-line / Some run stopping MLB's. ...a punter, a kicker, an offensive line that can keep them off the QB's back for a 4 count.

When Baylor is OUT-Recruiting you, then we have to WOW them into Norman.

If all these things are needs, then a stadium isn't going to fix it. Being out recruited and out coached by the likes of Baylor and other teams indicates a problem with the coaching, not the stadium. Our coaches either need to get their act together or we need new coaches.

[OKVision4U]

So why isn't UCLA, which plays in the Rose Bowl, and seats just under 100K based on its most recent upgrades, isn't winning national titles every year?

How long has Tennessee, with its 100K capacity, been all-but irrelevant to CFB?

You know what? OU needs to win. Oregon didn't buy a 100K seat facility first; they started winning. Stanford, if I'm correct, tore down a facility and replaced it with a smaller one - and started (and continued) winning.

If all it takes is a giant stadium and great, flashy scoreboards, why aren't schools just running to Jerry Jones and begging to rent out JerryWorld?

I guess my frustration in this thread is the fact that I am a HUGE ADVOCATE of proper, smart upgrades and expansion to OMS. But this blind notion of "we've gotta go to 100K NOW or we're doomed" just makes it nearly impossible to be such an advocate without it simultaneously sounding like we have to just start throwing bricks and chairs at the stadium.

I'm first in line to suggest we need a new pressbox and corresponding suites. That's smart. That's sensible. But this seeming insistence that we have to expand to 100K (or whatever the number is this week) or Face Ultimate Doom (tm) is, well, exhausting. It just makes the effort to discuss good ways to continue upgrading our stadium seem kinda futile - like if you don't advocate the Blind Upgrade to the Next Biggest Factor Of Ten, that somehow you're Just Not a Real Fan. Heck, I read an article in the last two weeks where some Nebraska folks are speculating they've expanded their stadium too much and too quickly.

OU has bigger problems than their stadium. We've got what looks to many observers like a train wreck within the offensive coaching staff, with mismanaged talent and misguided playcalling. Right or wrong, that public perception gets recruits' attention, too. National media is starting to look at Oklahoma and ask "What on earth is going on down there?" What TE in their right mind would come to OU right now (regardless of stadium size), given what they haven't done with TE's since Gresham was done going into the 2009 season?

Its about perspective, folks. I don't mean to rain on the parade of enthusiasm for enhancing OMS, but its just one piece of the puzzle.

I have been to the UCLA games many times. The reason the college team is not supported in greater numbers for football is the location of the Rose Bowl in Pasadena. It is completely removed from Westwood. The game is about wine & cheese for them, not football. Not the 100K stadium.

I am talking about competing against our local / regional competition... TCU / A&M / UT / Baylor / OSU / Tech. This is our recruiting base and we must remain significant if we want to continue what Bud W. started. ...if we don't, then don't build anything. The landscape of college football is different than it was even 20 years ago, re: Recruiting. That 17 &18 year old kids that wants to play CF is looking for more than just a few extra trophies in the cabinet. If all they wanted was trophies, than OSU / Baylor would not be getting ANY recruits at all. If all they wanted was trophies, than OU would have a receiver that could catch and we would have beaten Baylor ( just like we have for years). ...Kids today want all that "stuff".

Guys, this "sloppy big loss (29 points) w/ an average Baylor qb, 3rd string rb" was the slap in the face for our program. I'm not saying we are doomed. I'm saying OU has ZERO swagger. The mid level teams use OU as a launching point for their program. This has taken its toll over the past 5 years. It has added up to this moment. We got beat by Baylor by 29 points becuase they had enough athletes on the field that could compete w/ OU and in this case, beat us by 29. We did not lose to RG3, we lost to the NEW Big 12 power....Baylor?

SoonerDave, ...Please tell me how OSU did in 2012? You said "flashy scoreboards & giant stadium", well all you have to do is look at OSU. Why did Mr. Pickens spend over 100 Mil in Stillwater? ...answer that. To make them significant. To draw the recruit to Stillwater. To win games against OU. ...That is the slap in the face too.

Guys, we are not "doomed", we are just behind. ...and on that slippery slope called average. The (State of the Program) is this, if we finish the season 8-4, and more beatings on national TV, how many recruits (difference makers) will sign a LOI w/ OU in 2015 / 2016? If we lose to OSU on national TV, what is that going to feel like?

So, I ask you, do we want to remain significant? ...then we need that WOW in Norman. It needs to look like the Biggest, Brightest Party in the Big 12 that all recruits want to come to and Bob S can have that story to tell.

...or we can replace a pressbox w/ a few more suites, and in 2016 we will continue to get beat by the Mid Level programs on national TV. ...and it won't be that big of a deal to report from that new pressbox, because it happens all the time.

[venture]

I have zero problem modernizing and expanding the stadium. Thinking it will lead to national prominence again though is foolish. While top rated facilities are going to be on a recruits plate, so are quality of the coaching staff, quality schedule/opponents, and proper path to the NFL.

The schedule isn't horrible, but has taken a hit. Getting to the NFL is there, but not as easy as it use to be. The coaching quality though is in the toilet right now in several positions (not every one).

[OKVision4U]

If all these things are needs, then a stadium isn't going to fix it. Being out recruited and out coached by the likes of Baylor and other teams indicates a problem with the coaching, not the stadium. Our coaches either need to get their act together or we need new coaches.

Guys, we can stick our heads in the sand if we want to, but all you have to do is ask "why did Gundy ask for a new make-over" for his facilities? He could coach, but the kids did not want to be there. You must look at the over-all level of talent. ...it is at a constant now.

Yes, the OC at OU needs to be moved, but we still rely on the elite athlete to be at OU, not just the average athlete. That is the recipe' for our success.

[OKVision4U]

I'm guessing but I have a feeling high school athletes care more about the quality of locker rooms, players lounges, training facilities rather than if there are more suites or club levels. They don't use those, they aren't spectators. I doubt adding capacity and new suites factors much compared to the slick new athletic dorms or Switzer center. I think you might be over-reacting from 2 losses.

...who just beat us by 29 on national TV? ...the new Big 12 power...Baylor ! That stadium is not the old "pature" it used to be, it is a new shiny toy that Coach Briels is using against Bob S.

....Gundy, is using that shiny new toy at his school too. ...A&M is using that new "story" of a toy to find their next Johnny Football.

[venture]

Guys, we can stick our heads in the sand if we want to....

Well let us know when yours it out of the sand so we can discuss this topic, and others you chime in on, logically without delusional claims. How's your 20-story tower in South Norman doing?

[Just the facts]

Just look at Nebraska, Penn State, Tennessee - all stadiums expanded to the point of real eyesores - and fixing them or replacing would be very expensive. look at TCU and Baylor, new stadiums of similar capacity, just better quality. Well, hope it goes well, and does not become another mega-ugly embarrassment to the University. It can be done, but does it need to be?

I wish more people would adopt the 'less is more' philosophy. I'm not sure what OU could do at this point but if money was no object I would build a 65,000 stadium that improved the fan experience over seating capacity. But we all know there is no ranking of college stadium by 'fan experience' and everyone wants to be #1 on some list - so seating capacity it is.

[OKVision4U]

I wish more people would adopt the 'less is more' philosophy. I'm not sure what OU could do at this point but if money was no object I would build a 65,000 stadium that improved the fan experience over seating capacity. But we all know there is no ranking of college stadium by 'fan experience' and everyone wants to be #1 on some list - so seating capacity it is.

When minor programs ( TCU / Baylor ) rise up in a small amount of time, to become a constant thorn in our sides...how did they achieve that?

Less is more, is not what the landscape of college football is today. It's about competition. On & Off the field.

[onthestrip]

...who just beat us by 29 on national TV? ...the new Big 12 power...Baylor ! That stadium is not the old "pature" it used to be, it is a new shiny toy that Coach Briels is using against Bob S.

....Gundy, is using that shiny new toy at his school too. ...A&M is using that new "story" of a toy to find their next Johnny Football.

Baylor doesnt have their new stadium done yet.

[ou48A]

If all these things are needs, then a stadium isn't going to fix it. Being out recruited and out coached by the likes of Baylor and other teams indicates a problem with the coaching, not the stadium. Our coaches either need to get their act together or we need new coaches.

For some recruits (not all) what's shiny and new impresses...
But it's why OU is fixing to spend another big chunk of money on its stadium and football facility's.

It's not to hard to be out coached on the field when the other team has the better athletes.
Facility with the right coaches seem to make a big difference.
But frankly, Boren has been late to the game and almost neglectful on the issue of improving the football facility's. For a long time he basically turned a blind eye toward the issue and let to many others pass him by, and now the results are showing up.

[ou48A]

Baylor doesnt have their new stadium done yet.

They have been selling their new stadium on the recruiting trail for several years now.

[HangryHippo]

I would like to see the benches removed and individual seats added. Our stadium is terribly difficult to navigate from a seating perspective. I know the overall numbers would take a hit, but I want the aisles expanded to make it easier for people to pass by without everyone having to move and seats put in. Would make it worlds better on gameday.

[dankrutka]

I prefer the benches. It creates a more intimate feel that is appropriate for the college football experience. Also, if all benches were switched out for seats I think that would be a pretty substantial loss of seats, no?

[HangryHippo]

I think it could be substantial yes, but combined with my earlier suggestion of redoing the south endzone to match the north endzone, you make up for some of that shortfall.

[venture]

When minor programs ( TCU / Baylor ) rise up in a small amount of time, to become a constant thorn in our sides...how did they achieve that?

How? It is called parity thanks to scholarship limits being placed on schools. Also TCU commanded the MWC and busted into the BCS as a mid major. Getting into the bigger games, and winning them, means a lot. The post season for OU has been pretty poor looking at the overall picture - at least on the bigger stages.

The team hasn't won a "big" bowl game since the 2003 Rose Bowl. Yes there was the 2011 Fiesta Bowl, but that was against a pretty poor quality UConn team. Bob's BCS record is 3-5. Being on that big of a stage and not having a lot of success hurts - a lot.

[OKVision4U]

How? It is called parity thanks to scholarship limits being placed on schools. Also TCU commanded the MWC and busted into the BCS as a mid major. Getting into the bigger games, and winning them, means a lot. The post season for OU has been pretty poor looking at the overall picture - at least on the bigger stages.

The team hasn't won a "big" bowl game since the 2003 Rose Bowl. Yes there was the 2011 Fiesta Bowl, but that was against a pretty poor quality UConn team. Bob's BCS record is 3-5. Being on that big of a stage and not having a lot of success hurts - a lot.

Parity, sure! TCU / Baylor have the same 85 scholly limit. So how are they competing / beating us? ....let's move past the question of parity and the 85 scholly limit. Parity is just an excuse.

We must find a way to keep getting that "difference" maker that wants to move to Norman. We are not competing against UT for the Dallas Morning News Texas Top 100 anymore... That is now spread so thin across all Top 10 programs, plus the top regional schools, and now Baylor. This is our problem.

Mr. Boren & Joe C. ... McDonald's has Wifi. That is not what the top recruits are asking for, they want to be at "THE" place for football. Let's be that. ...set the bar so high, that Baylor / TCU / OSU / Tech don't catch us for another 25 years.

[venture]

Mr. Boren & Joe C. ... McDonald's has Wifi. That is not what the top recruits are asking for, they want to be at "THE" place for football. Let's be that. ...set the bar so high, that Baylor / TCU / OSU / Tech don't catch us for another 25 years.

They've pretty much already caught us...or we've sunken to that level more accurately. Look...the Big 12 is weak. The OU teams of late can't close the deal in big games. A ton of money into the stadium isn't going to fix that. Is it needed? Yes. The press boxes and suites need some love. Should we focus on adding 20-25,000 more seats? Definitely not.

Say we had Jerry World for our home stadium...if we can't win big games it won't matter. Many schools have higher rated stadiums than we do, but it doesn't automatically equate to getting the best players.

The teams need to start winning.

[traxx]

Vision, you are so far off I don't even know where to begin. Yeah, some stadium improvements would be nice but we don't necessarily need expansion. We've got 85K right now with a waiting list. That's what you want. Not 100K with empty seats and a tarp over some of the seats.

Sure recruits like a nice stadium but the facilities are more important to them. What's most important is winning. If Alabama played in a sandlot, top recruits would still want to go there because all they do is win NCs. Plus they've got a pretty good chance at going to the next level at Bama. The recruits who value a stadium as more important than winning are recruits you don't want anyway.

Why are recruits going to Baylor now? Because of the coach, because he's winning. Same reason they go to Bama. Why did they start going to Oregon? Because they started winning. Winning came first. Facilities later. Winning fixes everything.

I'm not saying that the stadium and how many it seats doesn't play some sort of a role with the recruits but it's a lot further down on the list than you think. They care about the coach, about winning, about making it to the NFL, about the locker room and other amenities that go unseen by the fans. If you think expanding the stadium is going to win us recruiting battles against Texas, aTm, LSU, Bama, then you're sorely mistaken.

And don't even bother bringing up OSU as you did above. They had to work hard just to get Rustoleum stadium on par with everyone else in the conference. That thing was a high school stadium at best before they did work on it. And yes, they expanded seating when they had never filled up their stadium at the lower seating capacity.

[OKVision4U]

They've pretty much already caught us...or we've sunken to that level more accurately. Look...the Big 12 is weak. The OU teams of late can't close the deal in big games. A ton of money into the stadium isn't going to fix that. Is it needed? Yes. The press boxes and suites need some love. Should we focus on adding 20-25,000 more seats? Definitely not.

Say we had Jerry World for our home stadium...if we can't win big games it won't matter. Many schools have higher rated stadiums than we do, but it doesn't automatically equate to getting the best players.

The teams need to start winning.

You just said that the Big 12 is weak...and where is OU in that mix this year...4th? ...5th? We are going to place 4/5 in a weak year of the Big 12. hmm??? Let's be glad this is a down year, so we won't be 7th or 8th. I'm not saying we need to spend $ 1 Bil, but the next move needs to be Huge.

If we stay the same w/ facilities, we will continue to become that 8-4 team that competes for championships.

[OKVision4U]

Vision, you are so far off I don't even know where to begin. Yeah, some stadium improvements would be nice but we don't necessarily need expansion. We've got 85K right now with a waiting list. That's what you want. Not 100K with empty seats and a tarp over some of the seats.

Sure recruits like a nice stadium but the facilities are more important to them. What's most important is winning. If Alabama played in a sandlot, top recruits would still want to go there because all they do is win NCs. Plus they've got a pretty good chance at going to the next level at Bama. The recruits who value a stadium as more important than winning are recruits you don't want anyway.

Why are recruits going to Baylor now? Because of the coach, because he's winning. Same reason they go to Bama. Why did they start going to Oregon? Because they started winning. Winning came first. Facilities later. Winning fixes everything.

I'm not saying that the stadium and how many it seats doesn't play some sort of a role with the recruits but it's a lot further down on the list than you think. They care about the coach, about winning, about making it to the NFL, about the locker room and other amenities that go unseen by the fans. If you think expanding the stadium is going to win us recruiting battles against Texas, aTm, LSU, Bama, then you're sorely mistaken.

And don't even bother bringing up OSU as you did above. They had to work hard just to get Rustoleum stadium on par with everyone else in the conference. That thing was a high school stadium at best before they did work on it. And yes, they expanded seating when they had never filled up their stadium at the lower seating capacity.

Oregon was becuase of NIKE and the uniforms...the stadium too. ...they win because the others don't. SC / Washington / UCLA / are down.

Alabama wins in a huge stadium. It's not a sandlot.

I did not say we are competing against Alabama, I said we are competing against OSU / Tech / TCU / Baylor for these regional recruits now. A losing them.

Re: OSU, you have your head in the sand. How did they finish the Big 12 last year? ...They are getting recruits now. Substantial recruits, not just a couple here and there.

I'm not embarrassed by a few empty seats in the upper corners of the stadium, we scored 12 points against Baylor on national TV. 41-12. But OU is not that same Brand anymore. We got embarrrassed by Baylor w/ an average qb....why? Becuase we have lost a few key difference makers each year for the past 5 years in recruiting. This is the sum total of all its parts. If it takes a stadium to move us "back into the equation" relevant, than let's get busy.

[venture]

You just said that the Big 12 is weak...and where is OU in that mix this year...4th? ...5th? We are going to place 4/5 in a weak year of the Big 12. hmm??? Let's be glad this is a down year, so we won't be 7th or 8th. I'm not saying we need to spend $ 1 Bil, but the next move needs to be Huge.

If we stay the same w/ facilities, we will continue to become that 8-4 team that competes for championships.

We are 4th right now, but likely will lose 1 or 2 more games if things don't get turned around.

There will be improvements to the stadium made, but nothing massive that isn't needed. I don't really see what your point is.

Oregon was becuase of NIKE and the uniforms...the stadium too. ...they win because the others don't. SC / Washington / UCLA / are down.

They still do very well in a conference when the others are doing well, so you have no point here.

Alabama wins in a huge stadium. It's not a sandlot.

They never said it was a sandlot? Do you even read what people post?

I did not say we are competing against Alabama, I said we are competing against OSU / Tech / TCU / Baylor for these regional recruits now. A losing them.

If all we are going to do is compete against the local area schools, we will never get back to winner. It comes down to better scheduling and performing on a big stage. We SHOULD be competing against Alabama but they actually win the big games.

Re: OSU, you have your head in the sand. How did they finish the Big 12 last year? ...They are getting recruits now. Substantial recruits, not just a couple here and there.

You love sand I'm guessing? LOL Sure they are doing better now, and the Boones money helped...but when you had pathetic facilities before and good to great ones now - you are going to get a boost. OU has pretty good facilities right now and should still be outperforming OSU.

I'm not embarrassed by a few empty seats in the upper corners of the stadium, we scored 12 points against Baylor on national TV. 41-12. But OU is not that same Brand anymore. We got embarrrassed by Baylor w/ an average qb....why? Becuase we have lost a few key difference makers each year for the past 5 years in recruiting. This is the sum total of all its parts. If it takes a stadium to move us "back into the equation" relevant, than let's get busy.

Are you just not paying attention to what other people write? No one is saying stadium improvements aren't important or good for recruiting, but there HAS to be more. You can build Jerry World, but it isn't going to win big games. Let's also not ignore the fact that winning more big games will help with donations that helps to pay for shiny new things.

If anyone has their head in the sand it has been you...and that has been over months of your posts here where you've posted with blinders on. Half the time it seems like you are just trolling to troll, while the other half makes me think we should have pity on someone who doesn't have a fair shake in life.

[OKVision4U]

The landscape of college football is an arms race. Both in facilities & Championship Qb's. It takes both. Qb's must have receivers that are threats, not just hoping they can catch. Qb's must have a RB that is a threat each time they touch the ball, that elite back ( A.D. ). This is why OU must maintain that "edge in recruiting" each year. Let's give Bob S. another toy to offer the kids, and keep them coming to Norman.

I would like to see what HOK Sports could come up with regarding a New Kind of Experience for our stadium...???

[venture]

Like I said...why bother even acknowledging someone in these discussions anymore who continues to keep disregarding what everyone else is saying. Ahhh well.