Lifechurch.tv building a New Location in North OKC

[Tydude]

Lifechurch.tv to add a location in north Oklahoma City | News OK

[Sonny_Crockett]

Interesting.

Sadly the BGCO and the Southern Baptist Convention (which engulf the Bible belt/Oklahoma) have been Craig Groeschel/Lifechurch.tv's biggest critics. More and more people are leaving SBC Churches and going to Life/Victory/Journey Norman etc.

[ThomPaine]

Drove by the site today, huge.

[venture]

I wonder if they are having any Black Friday sales?

[Pete]

It's 20 acres of a rather narrow strip of land that fronts the west side of Broadway Extension just south of Britton Road.

That land used to belong to OPUBCO.

[Garin]

The whole approach that most of these covenant churches go about attracting people is IMO silly. Coffee bars, trampolines, moon bounces, DJ's , rock concerts, feel good services. It's like they a compitetion of who can give you the most crap.

[RadicalModerate]

The whole approach that most of these covenant churches go about attracting people is IMO silly. Coffee bars, trampolines, moon bounces, DJ's , rock concerts, feel good services. It's like they a compitetion of who can give you the most crap.

I have to agree. I prefer endless pairs of Jehovah's Witnesses knocking on the door and leaving copies of The Watchtower, along with hoards of pairs of Mormons in black slacks and white shirts with narrow ties, on bicycles, clogging up the roadways, to trampolines and moon bounces, too.

It makes me want to shave my head, don an orange robe, put some little cymbals on my fingers and go around annoying people at airports chanting "Nam m'yoho renge kyo." Except instead of chanting for World Peace I'd probably be chanting for a Mercedes Benz convertible.

[jbkrems]

I'm not a Baptist, but I don't go to a megachurch, either. I think that some churches, really ALL churches, need to be attracting people into their doors !!! Why ??? Let's get to the bottom line here, folks, if we are not getting people saved in our churches, we are not doing our job, the Great Commission. People need to be coming into these churches so that they can get saved and discipled. Is there a problem with these contemporary approaches to getting people in ? Nowhere in the Bible does it say don't put a coffee shop in your church. Or for that matter don't set up a moon bounce for the kids. Or for that matter don't include a DJ or rock concert as part of your worship service. These things are NOT prohibited in the Bible. So, RadicalModerate, when did you or anyone else become the judge of these other churches ? I don't judge other churches who do not do things the way we do it at my church. I may agree or disagree with certain things, but that's just an opinion and I do not have to express it all the time. I would applaud ANY church that is having people walk the aisle to get saved and give their lives over to the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen ?

[Plutonic Panda]

I'm not a Baptist, but I don't go to a megachurch, either. I think that some churches, really ALL churches, need to be attracting people into their doors !!! Why ??? Let's get to the bottom line here, folks, if we are not getting people saved in our churches, we are not doing our job, the Great Commission. People need to be coming into these churches so that they can get saved and discipled. Is there a problem with these contemporary approaches to getting people in ? Nowhere in the Bible does it say don't put a coffee shop in your church. Or for that matter don't set up a moon bounce for the kids. Or for that matter don't include a DJ or rock concert as part of your worship service. These things are NOT prohibited in the Bible. So, RadicalModerate, when did you or anyone else become the judge of these other churches ? I don't judge other churches who do not do things the way we do it at my church. I may agree or disagree with certain things, but that's just an opinion and I do not have to express it all the time. I would applaud ANY church that is having people walk the aisle to get saved and give their lives over to the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen ?

I have a very strong opinion of Life Church as well as other mega churches. I will not go into detail, as I've already told myself I won't get into political debates on this forum and weeeeeelllll. . . .

Just know that I think they represent nothing even remotely close to what they claim to represent and if I were a councilman or any person in charge of making the decision of deciding to issue permits for these "churches" to build here, they wouldn't be here. That's all I'm going to say.

[venture]

I have a very strong opinion of Life Church as well as other mega churches. I will not go into detail, as I've already told myself I won't get into political debates on this forum and weeeeeelllll. . . .

Just know that I think they represent nothing even remotely close to what they claim to represent and if I were a councilman or any person in charge of making the decision of deciding to issue permits for these "churches" to build here, they wouldn't be here. That's all I'm going to say.

I've always felt odd looking at these mega or "big box" churches. I think that part of that comes from growing up a traditional Catholic in a church with beautiful architecture and pastors living in rectories. I'm talking...



Not this fad of big box stores...errr "churches"...







Oh and the homes of these so-called pastors?







All of those homes are of "pastors" of these big box "churches". To me, this is simply a glaring example of legal tax evasion hiding under a non-profit organization while sucking the money out of their flock...ahem...sheep. This is why I am a huge proponent of eliminating ALL tax exemptions and deductions. Flat tax everyone...either via a sales tax or income tax. Everyone pays their portion...no skirting around the rules.

[Plutonic Panda]

Come on, Venture, don't get me going man lol

I agree with you though 100%

[venture]

Come on, Venture, don't get me going man lol

I agree with you though 100%

LOL it's okay. I'm channeling you in my comments so you don't have to.

[RadicalModerate]

So, RadicalModerate, when did you or anyone else become the judge of these other churches ?

I can't speak for "anyone else" . . . but where was the judgmentalism in my preferences regarding trampolines, water slides, coffee shops, etc.(as part of the "worship experience") as compared to Scientology or Nichiren Buddhism?

[bombermwc]

I dont want to make this into a religous debate thread or anything so i'm just going to give a few comments.

1 - mega churches are not new and they are not unique to the new-age nondenominational world. Mega churches have been around for a long time, and are rooted in the traditional denominational world (and MOSTLY exist there still). Southern Baptist, Methodist, and Pentacostal mainly. Where do you think Life Church started from...hello Metro Church. First Southern of Del City, Asbury UMC in Tulsa, St Lukes in OKC, the list goes on and on. The mega/smaller debate isn't new, no more than the debate between smaller and large schools is.

2 - nondenominational churches aren't new either - we all want to find somewhere that speaks to us. For generations, people have found alternate methods to worship outside of the box that's presented to us as the only option (ie the one our parents attended). Why do you think the reformation came about? You think the debate here is a big deal....we've got nothing on Martin Luther folks.

3 - "those big box churches are fake crap". you're welcome to that opinion. They definitely are NOT for me. However, i can appreciate their attractiveness for so many people. Members of my own family attend Life Church and have had a love/hate relationship with it. BUT, they still felt more welcome there than at the Methodist church we grew up in! I dont attend that methodist church anymore either. I've since joined a Disciples of Christ church. One MAJOR difference i see with my particular congregation fits more with these "new-age" churches than the old traditional model in that we welcome people of all kinds (and not just by saying it). So many people attend a church and "don't quite fit in", shall we say. Maybe they don't want to wear slacks, maybe they have a lot of piercings, maybe they are all tatted up. Pardon me mr southern baptist minister, i didn't realize that only a certain type of person was allowed to worship in your church and that you got to decide that. THAT is the root of this. The so-called churches not welcoming people because they dont fit into the box of what they think a member should be. That doesn't mean those people don't have faith...they're just having a hard time finding someone that will accept them. That's one place Life Church and those like it (Frontline, Journey, etc) work. They honestly accept people of all types and give them direction (which is what the service is all about right) for their worship. Maybe they prefer to sing to praise and worship music rather than an organ. So what. Does that make them any less of a Christian than you or I? And besides that, who are we to judge them? It certainly isn't our place to decide or judge what is right or wrong here. We chose a denomination (myself included) because of our personal opinions, not because God ordained that ours was the right and only way.

[Garin]

LifeChurch.tv is part of the Evangelical Covenant Church (ECC) - a rapidly growing multi-ethnic denomination in the United States and Canada with ministries on five continents of the world. Founded in 1885 by Swedish immigrants, the ECC values the Bible as the Word of God, the gift of God's grace and ever-deepening spiritual life that comes through faith in Jesus Christ, the importance of extending God's love and compassion to a hurting world, and the strength that comes from unity within diversity.

What makes the Covenant unique from other denominations is the fact that while it strongly affirms the clear teaching of the Word of God, it allows believers the personal freedom to have varying interpretations on theological issues that are not clearly presented in Scripture.

The last sentence is the most dangerous part for the newly saved.

[David]

Tax evasion? My brother is a pastor and I can promise you he pays income tax, I helped him with his taxes a few years back so I know this for an absolute fact.

Can you be more specific about what you mean, Venture?

[FritterGirl]

My favorite vanity tag of all time was the one I saw two years ago displayed on a brand new E-Class Mercedes 4-door Sedan outside of Lowe's at Penn and Memorial. It simply said "God Biz." This pretty much sums up the idea of mega-churches to me. I wish I had taken a photo of it.

[ABryant]

I've thought about this for a while. How to tax huge churches without putting a strain on small community churches. I have not figured out the answer, but it does bother me that some institutions can rake in tons of cash tax free, while others just survive. I'm not trying to judge the intentions of the institutions. Is just a internal philosophical debate for me.

[Midtowner]

Tax evasion? My brother is a pastor and I can promise you he pays income tax, I helped him with his taxes a few years back so I know this for an absolute fact.

Can you be more specific about what you mean, Venture?

I'm guessing his beef is going to be what pastors count as income for tax calculation purposes.

[Bellaboo]

I'm guessing his beef is going to be what pastors count as income for tax calculation purposes.

I would care to guess it would be high $ property tax evasion on their parsonages...?

[bombermwc]

What makes you think that just because they are a large church, that they have to be doing something shady? I've seen churches in the most afluent parts of town almost go bankrupt because the wealthy members dont want to contribute to a united image, rather only to what projects they want done. At the same time, churches in economically depressed areas are strong and stable.

Pastors also have a salary approved by the board of that church. Just like anyone else, they also have bills. If their income surpasses their bills, then they are able to do things. Hopefully they spend the lionshare on that on programs to help people in/out of the church, and not just to put in more fancy lighting and crap.

LifeChurch isn't any different in this respect. I dont care for them, but it bugs me when people single them out as if their some "demon church". Hello....Tammy Faye Baker! When's the last time you saw someone on TBN that was an honest pastor...HA! If churches like these weren't speaking to people on some level, then they wouldn't have the congregations they do. Again, i dont attend there, but the new MWC campus has something like 6 or 7 services on Sunday now spread throughout the day. The parking lot in front of the place is absolutely full every single time. You'll see a couple thousand people flow through that place on a Sunday. You think they're all getting brainwashed or something? All the while, the church continues to grow all over the city. It's not my kind of church, but i seriously doubt that the place is doing shady stuff with their money if that many people are still being attracted to it every week. Now, i do not agree with how the amount of money a person gives there, changes how they view a person. I've seen that first hand with my sister's family so you can't tell me that doesn't happen. However, that's not really any different than it would be in other churches.

Life Church's parent, Metro Church, was notorious for the pastor saying "we need $150,000 more in today's offering. Bow your heads and let me see 10 people raise their hands to give 15K today". I'm not making that up.

[Martin]

It makes me want to shave my head, don an orange robe, put some little cymbals on my fingers and go around annoying people at airports chanting "Nam m'yoho renge kyo."

[Garin]

The one and only time I attend a life church service as the offering plate was being passed around, the pastor onsite said if anyone needs any of the money in the plate go ahead and take it. I was a little taken back by that approach. They are also building all of these churches on bank loans not cash. IMO thats not being a very good steward with GODS money.

[Snowman]

While I don't think they will be accused of spending vast amounts of money to create architectural wonders in their church buildings, most of buildings I have seen them operate around here were long empty big box stores or office buildings that had been vacant for years, so it is also not exactly making the neighborhood look worse either.

I've always felt odd looking at these mega or "big box" churches. I think that part of that comes from growing up a traditional Catholic in a church with beautiful architecture and pastors living in rectories ...

[RadicalModerate]

The one and only time I attend a life church service as the offering plate was being passed around, the pastor onsite said if anyone needs any of the money in the plate go ahead and take it. I was a little taken back by that approach. They are also building all of these churches on bank loans not cash. IMO thats not being a very good steward with GODS money.

I saw something, such as what you described, occur during the offering at Victory Christian Center, around Thanksgiving, several years ago. It was pretty impressive, actually. The Bible says that the LORD loves a cheerful giver which to me implies that it's better not to give at all than to give grudgingly or to show off like some sort of Pharisee or whatever. But I'm not going to pretend to be a theologian and I can't be sure.