Time to expand Oklahoma Memorial Stadium?

[Snowman]

I would have only expected a light capacity bump if any, since what makes real money is premium seats/suits and you literally can not build any seats closer to the action. In addition to get it in the range of 100,000 will mean adding a lot of cheap seats that cost a lot to build, compare that to some premium seats bring in more per seat than some entire sections do. I think they even stated at one point they do not ever expect to close the gaps in the bowl because the expected revenue bump would not likely be worth the costs (though that could change if they chose to bump the student section to the new corners and sell the current student section to donors).

[dankrutka]

Joe C and Stoops have indicated that when OU rebuilds its press box that it would include a small stadium expansion. Joe C said that this would add approximately 1,500 new seats with the current plans. Obviously these plans could change.

But at this time and until the demand warrants I'm not in favor of any expansion beyond the press box expansion... Without the parking and transportation issues being successfully addressed its unlikely that the demand would ever increases by enough to ever warrant a large expansion.

Do you have a link to them saying this? Thanks.

[Laramie]

I would have only expected a light capacity bump if any, since what makes real money is premium seats/suits and you literally can not build any seats closer to the action. In addition to get it in the range of 100,000 will mean adding a lot of cheap seats that cost a lot to build, compare that to some premium seats bring in more per seat than some entire sections do. I think they even stated at one point they do not ever expect to close the gaps in the bowl because the expected revenue bump would not likely be worth the costs (though that could change if they chose to bump the student section to the new corners and sell the current student section to donors).

I agree Snowman:

At some point OU will need to evaluate the feasibility of adding to the north and/or south end zone seating. Sure it's going to cost millions, probably some where in the neighborhood of $50 - $75 millions to add 10,000 - 15,000 seats. Ten to fifteen years from now it is going to cost three times that amount to expand. Ticket prices are going to go up anyway; if you wait, the fewer seats you have available--the more it's going to cost. Why do you think the Thunder wanted to down-size the Chesapeake Energy Arena from 19,135 to 18,203? I'll give you three reasons:

1. More comfort for premium court side ticket holders.
2. To create a demand for tickets
3. Create more space for NBA requirements for televising.

Greatest financial impact you'll receive for collegiate and major professional football and basketball events will come from TV revenue, product licensing, parking fees, concession stands, sponsors in the arena/stadium, and ticket sales.

Texas A & M and Nebraska both did end zone seating expansion:



Kyle Field, College Station (82,589)
Expansion, 2014: Kyle Field (construction will start after the 2013 season and is expected to be completed for the 2015 season) the stadium capacity will increase from 82,589 to 102,500



Memorial Stadium, Lincoln (87,091)
Expansion, 2014: The addition of 38 skybox suites pushes the stadium's total to more than 100, and capacity increased from about 86,000 to almost 92,000.

Read More: Nebraska stadium addition pushes capacity past 90,000 - College Football - SI.com

College Station-Bryan, TX MSA...............228,660
Lincoln, NE MSA....................................302,157
Oklahoma City-Norman, OK MSA..........1,252,987

Source: List of Metropolitan Statistical Areas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 2010 figures.

[kevinpate]

My friends and I have bought tickets outside the stadium pretty much every game for years without any problems.

OU does not need to add seats, certainly not to 100,000. Continue to improve the stadium, but the stadium size seems perfect right now. As long as $94 tickets are sold on the street for $20-30 no expansion is needed. Expanding prematurely could result in empty seats and tickets with little value.

When tickets are selling for 22-25 cents on the dollar on game day, there's a valid argument the stadium already has more seats than it has demand.

[Snowman]

College Station-Bryan, TX MSA...............228,660
Lincoln, NE MSA....................................302,157
Oklahoma City-Norman, OK MSA..........1,252,987

I think the MSAs here can be a little misleading, I would be shocked it more people did not come in from Omaha than from Lincoln. Plus parts of Houston's suburbs are less than an hour drive from College Station, Austin is about an hour and a half from it, so they probably pick up some of the alumni from there and the cities north east of College Station too.

[OKVision4U]

When tickets are selling for 22-25 cents on the dollar on game day, there's a valid argument the stadium already has more seats than it has demand.

No, this is not accurate. The reason the price drops is becuase the game has started, not the demand prior to kickoff. We need to keep up w/ the Big boys in this region. Tex A&M / UT / and us. We don't have all their money, but we can't get LEFT BEHIND either.

[SoonerDave]

No, this is not accurate. The reason the price drops is becuase the game has started, not the demand prior to kickoff. We need to keep up w/ the Big boys in this region. Tex A&M / UT / and us. We don't have all their money, but we can't get LEFT BEHIND either.

Sorry, OKVision, but this is just not accurate.

I've been going to OU home games for four decades, and over the last three of those decades, I've *never* had season tickets, and I've *always* been able to buy outside the stadium well before kickoff for a fraction of face value. Lots of people don't/refuse to believe this. I "tutored" my barber on how to do it, and he was very skeptical, but the last time I got a haircut the first thing he told me was "omigosh, you were right about OU tickets!! I couldn't believe how good the seats were/how cheap they were" (paraphrasing, but words to that effect).

I can think of two instances in those thirty years where I've paid face for more an OU home ticket: 2007 Miami, where a friend of mine came in from out of town, and I needed four together - paid face three days before the game; and 2000 OU-Nebraska - paid $70 for a single.

[OKVision4U]

Do we want to fight for 2nd tier recruits w/ OSU / T Tech / Baylor / ....? We have to UP OUR GAME boys. Boren knows this. This is why he put another look into this subject.

[OKVision4U]

Sorry, OKVision, but this is just not accurate.

I've been going to OU home games for four decades, and over the last three of those decades, I've *never* had season tickets, and I've *always* been able to buy outside the stadium well before kickoff for a fraction of face value. Lots of people don't/refuse to believe this. I "tutored" my barber on how to do it, and he was very skeptical, but the last time I got a haircut the first thing he told me was "omigosh, you were right about OU tickets!! I couldn't believe how good the seats were/how cheap they were" (paraphrasing, but words to that effect).


I can think of two instances in those thirty years where I've paid face for more an OU home ticket: 2007 Miami, where a friend of mine came in from out of town, and I needed four together - paid face three days before the game; and 2000 OU-Nebraska - paid $70 for a single.

I think you are mixing 2 different issues here. Demand for tickets / Season Tickets ...year end year out. Is growing. Demand for the OU Brand is still in-effect. It is not shrinking in any way.

Pricing of tickets on game days is a totally different subject. Face value for Nebraska vs. N. Tenn Sta. This is a different $$$ dynamic.

[SoonerDave]

When tickets are selling for 22-25 cents on the dollar on game day, there's a valid argument the stadium already has more seats than it has demand.

Bingo. This is precisely why my mom gave up her season tickets back in the 80's; they were horrible south endzone seats that I couldn't give away when I had my own student tickets. The light finally went on - it was kind of goofy to spend full price on tickets when significantly better seats could be had for much less and for relatively little effort on gameday.

The current sellout streak, I think, has also been supplanted by some generous sponsors willing to buy up last-minute unsold tickets just for the sake of preserving the "sellout" streak. Think it was Tulsa this year where a good chunk of the visitor section in the south endzone was empty - not a few random sections, but a clear, rectangular block of seats, and I knew there were tickets for sale at the ticket booths (perhaps returned by Tulsa? Not sure). Anyway, those seats were unoccupied into the first quarter, yet the game was a "sellout," officially.

Also remember the 2003 season opener, and I was down there looking for tickets, and two guys with official OU game credentials asked me how many I needed, and I told him "two, for my son and me." He said, "okay," reached into this big glassine envelope that probably had a stack of 100 or more tickets in it, and he handed two off the top to me - absolutely free. I inferred it was a block of tickets a sponsor bought and distributed and wrote off as a promotional expense or contribution.

Point of all this is to dispel any notion that there's some huge unsatisfied demand out there begging an expansion. The only way, IMHO, you get someone to join in is if you promise them good seating from the existing ticket base, and displace those folks into the new, inevitably worse seats. I can't fathom someone saying "here's a wad of six- or seven-figure dough so you can get a promise to sit in our shiny new endzone."

Right now, when that third-tier east-side upper deck is half filled, or the student section is only partially occupied, it looks really bad on TV. FWIW.

[SoonerDave]

I think you are mixing 2 different issues here. Demand for tickets / Season Tickets ...year end year out. Is growing. Demand for the OU Brand is still in-effect. It is not shrinking in any way.

Pricing of tickets on game days is a totally different subject. Face value for Nebraska vs. N. Tenn Sta. This is a different $$$ dynamic.

Not really.

The demand wasn't growing this year, as I received multiple emails telling me how OU had a surprising number of declined season ticket renewals, and would I be interested in getting them. You don't send out a mass email like that for 50 or 100 season tickets. If you've got this "growing demand", you don't have to advertise to sell tickets. Further, its been true for some time now that an "in-kind" donation to the Sooner Club of about $100 per seat (someone that's a member can correct me) will get you season tickets right now.

So we/I (as Sooner fans) have to (as much as it might be hard to do so) separate our head from our heart and realize demand isn't quite as great as we want to believe, and that comes down to hard dollars and cents reality. And that, in turn, has to factor in to how they plan any subsequent stadium expansions and renovations. The great thing in all this, however, is that Joe C is one of if not the premier athletic directors in the country, and I couldn't think of a better guy to be in charge of the next round of upgrades. He surely won't do anything to OU's detriment.

[onthestrip]

Do we want to fight for 2nd tier recruits w/ OSU / T Tech / Baylor / ....? We have to UP OUR GAME boys. Boren knows this. This is why he put another look into this subject.

I dont think recruits care whether you have an 82,000 seat stadium or a 100,000 seat stadium. Sure they just want a filled, loud stadium but they are going to care more about the quality of training facilities, locker rooms, and living spaces. If this was the case then OSU wouldnt be able to recruit very well with only a 60,000 seat stadium, but that doesnt appear to be the case. Adding 15,000 seats or even upgrading the concourse levels really wont matter much to players...since they dont use those thngs.

The only thing that should matter in a stadium enlargement is whether it has a good ROI from new ticket sales or increased ticket prices. It appears many OU fans want a stadium expansion just because a handful of other schools have bigger ones. Its as if some think you arent a powerhouse without a 100k seat stadium, which isnt the case at all.

[adaniel]

I think the MSAs here can be a little misleading, I would be shocked it more people did not come in from Omaha than from Lincoln. Plus parts of Houston's suburbs are less than an hour drive from College Station, Austin is about an hour and a half from it, so they probably pick up some of the alumni from there and the cities north east of College Station too.

Although it too is a stretch, I would look at state size. The only "big time" football programs in states with less than 4 million people are OU, Oregon, Ole Miss, Arkansas, and Nebraska. Only Nebraska has a capacity greater than OU's, the rest have no more than 75K seats. Nebraska is a special case because there are no competing D1 college or professional sports in the state. And even still, there seems to be some consternation about whether NU bit off more than they can chew. Is Memorial Stadium Expansion Saturating the Husker Football Market? - Corn Nation

IMO I think any expansion beyond 2-3000 seats would probably wreak havoc on the ticket market, and would probably end sellouts in down years. I remember going to some games in 2009, when we were truly down, and the "sellouts" consisted of big chunks of empty benches in some of the upper sections. We would probably get more bang for our buck in adding suites, improving facilities, etc. to dazzle recruits.

[ou48A]

Do you have a link to them saying this? Thanks.

Bob stoops said this to reporters and it was in the news papers.
Joe C indicated this on the radio and I have had personal conversations with people who are in the know about this.

[bluedogok]

I think the MSAs here can be a little misleading, I would be shocked it more people did not come in from Omaha than from Lincoln. Plus parts of Houston's suburbs are less than an hour drive from College Station, Austin is about an hour and a half from it, so they probably pick up some of the alumni from there and the cities north east of College Station too.

Yep, MSA population means absolutely nothing when it comes to football, pro or college. I know people who live in Omaha who go to every Husker game and they have some family members from western Nebraska who travel to every game. Just the people in the area of my father's season tickets were not from OKC, the row in front was from the Tulsa area, the one next to his lived in Springdale, Arkansas. There are people who travel from Little Rock or Memphis to Arkansas home games in Fayetteville. UT games are a prime example, the majority of people there are from DFW or Houston and a large number from San Antonio and rural areas. Probably the biggest draw for A&M games is from Houston or DFW. Even in the NFL there are a great many who travel to the games, as we were flying to Denver last night from OKC there were a good number of people on our flight with OU gear on and a bunch of them in Will Rogers. After landing here in Denver after the Broncos game the airport was crawling with people in Broncos gear (and a few in Redskins gear) heading to flights out of Denver. I remember an article a few years back (talking about the flex schedule Sunday night games) that stated something like 40% of Broncos season ticket holders are outside of the Denver metro area and a game getting flexed to Sunday night really screws up the plans they had in place with flights and hotels. The Broncos are definitely a regional team out here drawing people from all the neighboring states.

[ou48A]

OU keeps track on the locations of where they sell season football tickets.
About 12 years ago about 4000 season tickets were sold to people living in the DFW area.

There are thousand of OU fans that travel in to OU games from out of state to most home OU games. I personally known or have meet people with season tickets who come to almost all home games from Wichita, Dodge City, Amarillo, Midland /Odessa TX. Denver Kansas City, DFW. Some of these people fly in each week and a few come in private planes.
I lived out of state 6 years and drove as far as 350 miles one way with that crappy 55 mph speed limit.

[OKVision4U]

I dont think recruits care whether you have an 82,000 seat stadium or a 100,000 seat stadium. Sure they just want a filled, loud stadium but they are going to care more about the quality of training facilities, locker rooms, and living spaces. If this was the case then OSU wouldnt be able to recruit very well with only a 60,000 seat stadium, but that doesnt appear to be the case. Adding 15,000 seats or even upgrading the concourse levels really wont matter much to players...since they dont use those thngs.

The only thing that should matter in a stadium enlargement is whether it has a good ROI from new ticket sales or increased ticket prices. It appears many OU fans want a stadium expansion just because a handful of other schools have bigger ones. Its as if some think you arent a powerhouse without a 100k seat stadium, which isnt the case at all.

Onthestrip, The entire reason Mr. Pickens spent over a 100 Mil was to WOW the recruit. Bring them into the conversation w/ OU & level the playing field of recruiting. ...and it worked.

The bottom line to continuing our elite program (OU) is we have to maintain that edge in one way or the other. We have the history of Championships. That is why they even come here in the first place. The Heisman Park is to Wow them into seeing themselves w/ a statue some day. It is all done to "Wow" a recruit. But, we can't sit back and just "Hope" they decide to sign our LOI.

Let's make Bob's recruiting job a little easier, let's equal our history w/ a stadium that Wow's the recruit too. or, we can start missing out on a few to Tech / Baylor / TCU / Texas A&M / OSU each year. In todays 85 scholly's, it may be a stadium that helps keep the balance of power in Norman.

[Laramie]

Yep, MSA population means absolutely nothing when it comes to football, pro or college. I know people who live in Omaha who go to every Husker game and they have some family members from western Nebraska who travel to every game. Just the people in the area of my father's season tickets were not from OKC, the row in front was from the Tulsa area, the one next to his lived in Springdale, Arkansas. There are people who travel from Little Rock or Memphis to Arkansas home games in Fayetteville. UT games are a prime example, the majority of people there are from DFW or Houston and a large number from San Antonio and rural areas. Probably the biggest draw for A&M games is from Houston or DFW. Even in the NFL there are a great many who travel to the games, as we were flying to Denver last night from OKC there were a good number of people on our flight with OU gear on and a bunch of them in Will Rogers. After landing here in Denver after the Broncos game the airport was crawling with people in Broncos gear (and a few in Redskins gear) heading to flights out of Denver. I remember an article a few years back (talking about the flex schedule Sunday night games) that stated something like 40% of Broncos season ticket holders are outside of the Denver metro area and a game getting flexed to Sunday night really screws up the plans they had in place with flights and hotels. The Broncos are definitely a regional team out here drawing people from all the neighboring states.

The last figures I recall (late 1960s) was that the NFL requires that a market has at least 1.5 million within a 150-mile radius. The 150 mile radius was the time it took the average worker in Los Angeles to get to work. I laughed too; just couldn't understand those requirements or the logic.

Getting back on topic:

My reasoning for using the MSA market was to state that there is a market here which OU could take full advantage; yet you have Tulsa where there is another MSA of 1 million. Austin is mostly UT territory; however I give credit that there are a ton of alums from A & M in the emerging Austin area as well as Houston.

OU has a large group of alums in Houston, Los Angeles & Fort Worth-Dallas.

If we don't keep up with the Joneses; we will become a tier II college football team. What 'merits' are there in having consecutive sellouts when your stadium could accommodate more and be in a position to groom younger professionals and fans for the future?

Alabama has around 4,822,023 with two power house competitive major universities:

Currently studying expansion: Is Auburn falling behind in the stadium arms race or managing its money wisely? (Scarbinsky) | al.com

"We won't pursue an expansion of the stadium until it makes sense for us financially over the long term. We think the wiser stewardship of our resources is to make what we already have better. That's my top priority for the stadium at this time."

Let's hope our feasibility of Gaylord Family Memorial Stadium will look at the financial aspects; because Alabama has knocked Auburn off the top of the Summit--where does that put the University of Oklahoma?

Auburn, Jordan Hare Stadium: Capacity 87,451 (2004-present):



Alabama, Bryant-Denny Stadium, Capacity 101,821



Comes on guys, I pasted some prints pro & conon the wall.

That cute 'kitten' #58 my good friend (venture79) posted gave his life. Put some skin in the game...

Oklahoma 2010 population: 3,814,820

[dankrutka]

No, this is not accurate. The reason the price drops is becuase the game has started, not the demand prior to kickoff. We need to keep up w/ the Big boys in this region. Tex A&M / UT / and us. We don't have all their money, but we can't get LEFT BEHIND either.

I have bought tickets between $0 and $40 to every game the last 2 years (except Notre Dame last year). I almost always get them for $20, but this week was given 2 free ones. I never have bought tickets any later than an hour before kickoff.

You're not going to get "LEFT BEHIND" by building more seating that's not needed. Florida State seems to be doing okay with their small stadium. A full, energetic stadium is more important than a bigger one.

[dankrutka]

Bob stoops said this to reporters and it was in the news papers.
Joe C indicated this on the radio and I have had personal conversations with people who are in the know about this.

I've never heard this and I can't find it anywhere online. Let me know if you are able to provide a link verifying this.

[ou48A]

I've never heard this and I can't find it anywhere online. Let me know if you are able to provide a link verifying this.

I am not even going to try.... I remember it.

[Laramie]

onthestrip, the entire reason mr. Pickens spent over a 100 mil was to wow the recruit. Bring them into the conversation w/ ou & level the playing field of recruiting. ...and it worked.

The bottom line to continuing our elite program (ou) is we have to maintain that edge in one way or the other. We have the history of championships. That is why they even come here in the first place. The heisman park is to wow them into seeing themselves w/ a statue some day. It is all done to "wow" a recruit. But, we can't sit back and just "hope" they decide to sign our loi.

Let's make bob's recruiting job a little easier, let's equal our history w/ a stadium that wow's the recruit too. Or, we can start missing out on a few to tech / baylor / tcu / texas a&m / osu each year. In todays 85 scholly's, it may be a stadium that helps keep the balance of power in norman.

Recruits are impressed with facilities; especially in a place like Oklahoma where they are probably not expecting that CATHEDRAL of a stadium. They want to get away from home and carve their own niche. Our practice facilities, dorms and other facilities are impressive. Let's keep our stadium among the 'monsters,' renew that old adage of Owen Field being a 'snake pit.'


Amem!

[OKVision4U]

I have bought tickets between $0 and $40 to every game the last 2 years (except Notre Dame last year). I almost always get them for $20, but this week was given 2 free ones. I never have bought tickets any later than an hour before kickoff.

You're not going to get "LEFT BEHIND" by building more seating that's not needed. Florida State seems to be doing okay with their small stadium. A full, energetic stadium is more important than a bigger one.

We are not competing w/ Florida State. We will cherry pick Florida for a couple of recruits, but not an everyday situation of competition. Yes, we must have a full stadium w/ energy, but it can / must be more than the status quo of today.

[ou48A]

For OU this is much more about increasing the quality of the experience for fans, players, recruits and the media, while doing it in a way that still preserves for future major expansions.

With upper decks in both end zones OU could probably top out somewhere near 110000 to 115000 people.... But that's not going to happen anytime in the foreseeable future.

[Pete]

Joe C and Stoops have indicated that when OU rebuilds its press box that it would include a small stadium expansion. Joe C said that this would add approximately 1,500 new seats with the current plans. Obviously these plans could change.

But at this time and until the demand warrants I'm not in favor of any expansion beyond the press box expansion... Without the parking and transportation issues being successfully addressed its unlikely that the demand would ever increases by enough to ever warrant a large expansion.

I believe the plan has always been to make the new press box the entire width of the west upper deck and add a bunch of suites in the process.

This would generate the most revenue but not all a lot of capacity.