Odot

[Plutonic Panda]

Sorry, I don't think the High 5 is the hallmark of civilization......

Never said it was, I do think it is a hallmark for efficient interchange designs for vehicles, but surely no one on this board is against having efficient and top notch engineering for highways and interchanges.

[Plutonic Panda]

I remember the day that I dreamed of living in Dallas...Young, dumb, and full of...well that's not board appropriate

I have lived in Dallas. I have no desire to live there at this point. It's funny though how a bunch of members of this board put down Dallas and say things like "Dallas is for people with no common sense" and "Dallas is for young and dumb people that are full of sh*t", yet Dallas seems to always be in the top five best cities lists, well, every best cities list that is positive.

[Plutonic Panda]

But just imagine how amazing it would look covered in an inch of ice after one of our typical ice storms...just ignore the cars plummeting off the edges.

Venture, I really don't know why you hate Dallas, the only reason I use Dallas as an example is due to the fact that Dallas is the only other city I've lived in.

Denver has huge interchanges, it gets pretty cold in Denver. Aren't you from Michigan??? You ought to know Detroit has some pretty big flyovers. Atlanta, Houston, Seattle, L.A. and there are even four level stack interchanges in Britain and China has a 6 level stack interchange apparently.

I just did some extensive research on stack interchanges and in order to have a five level stack, you generally need to accommodate HOV lanes. It's obvious a good majority of this board does not support spending big money on highways, but I do. That's my opinion and will it change with, I can't tell you. But just remember whenever you put down Dallas, it is a nationally recognized city for many things and offers a lot that many many other cities in the U.S. does not. Sorry if I use Dallas as an example of anything, but I know Dallas really well, so that would be why I do that.

[venture]

I have lived in Dallas. I have no desire to live there at this point. It's funny though how a bunch of members of this board put down Dallas and say things like "Dallas is for people with no common sense" and "Dallas is for young and dumb people that are full of sh*t", yet Dallas seems to always be in the top five best cities lists, well, every best cities list that is positive.

Austin is almost always at the top of that list too...yet they have one of the worst highway systems on a major city. So I don't think the High 5 is a qualifying feature.

Who said Dallas was for people with no common sense? I made a common sense comment, but it wasn't in that regard. What is great for Dallas doesn't mean it is great for OKC. Climate and expense has to be considered. Also the existing I-40/44 interchange really isn't that bad of a design right now. The traffic issues from my experience around there are from issues downstream a bit...not the interchange itself.

I get it though where you come from with your comments. I have a wild imagination that I have to keep under control otherwise I end up envisioning things for my hometown that are completely unrealistic. Nothing wrong with that, it is just something that needs to be kept in check and realistic.

As far as Teo's young, dumb...comment. Yeah...I'm guessing you never heard that saying before. LOL

[Plutonic Panda]

Austin is almost always at the top of that list too...yet they have one of the worst highway systems on a major city. So I don't think the High 5 is a qualifying feature.

Who said Dallas was for people with no common sense? I made a common sense comment, but it wasn't in that regard. What is great for Dallas doesn't mean it is great for OKC. Climate and expense has to be considered. Also the existing I-40/44 interchange really isn't that bad of a design right now. The traffic issues from my experience around there are from issues downstream a bit...not the interchange itself.

I get it though where you come from with your comments. I have a wild imagination that I have to keep under control otherwise I end up envisioning things for my hometown that are completely unrealistic. Nothing wrong with that, it is just something that needs to be kept in check and realistic.

As far as Teo's young, dumb...comment. Yeah...I'm guessing you never heard that saying before. LOL

I understand, I just think that a four level stack interchange could work here, and it would be great. If Denver and Detroit have them, I'm sure we could make something work. Dallas spent 260 million on the high five, we are spending something like 170 million(I could be wrong on that and please correct me if I am) on the I235/I44 interchange, and that is a half flyover half cloverleaf interchange. I don't understand it.

Also, are you thinking of the same interchange as I am? I am talking about the one near Dell calling center, that moves from the new crosstown. . .

[Plutonic Panda]

Austin is almost always at the top of that list too...yet they have one of the worst highway systems on a major city. So I don't think the High 5 is a qualifying feature

Well, to be fair Austin is only served by one interstate and is growing as insane levels. The population is exploding there. I didn't mean to say that Dallas is at the top of the lists due to the high five, it just seems sometimes people here like to put Dallas down as a bad city.

[adaniel]

Because I want an efficient interchange that has proven itself time and time again, I don't have any common sense for developing? Seriously? So I suppose no one here would like a high-five for the I40/I44 interchange. . . Why is that exactly?

The traffic counts come nowhere near justifying building something like this. And even if ODOT was funded like it should be, OK simply doesn't have the tax base to warrant such a huge expense. Remember Dallas, Collin, and Denton Counties combined have a larger population than the entire state of Oklahoma.

There are many types of interchanges that don't cost $500 million and can handle the traffic in that area for the foreseeable future. But hey if you have a cool half billion to spare...

No offense PP as you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I'm not sure you fully grasp the concept of costs for stuff like this.

[venture]

Venture, I really don't know why you hate Dallas, the only reason I use Dallas as an example is due to the fact that Dallas is the only other city I've lived in.

Denver has huge interchanges, it gets pretty cold in Denver. Aren't you from Michigan??? You ought to know Detroit has some pretty big flyovers. Atlanta, Houston, Seattle, L.A. and there are even four level stack interchanges in Britain and China has a 6 level stack interchange apparently.

I just did some extensive research on stack interchanges and in order to have a five level stack, you generally need to accommodate HOV lanes. It's obvious a good majority of this board does not support spending big money on highways, but I do. That's my opinion and will it change with, I can't tell you. But just remember whenever you put down Dallas, it is a nationally recognized city for many things and offers a lot that many many other cities in the U.S. does not. Sorry if I use Dallas as an example of anything, but I know Dallas really well, so that would be why I do that.

I don't hate Dallas at all. I just don't think we should continue to be looking at it as a model for what to do here. Yes there are things that they have that can work here, but we also have to consider relative scale to our community. Detroit does have some pretty significant overpasses. I-75 going towards downtown before the bridge is one of them...but if it was done today, it wouldn't exist.

Why do we need 4, 5, or 6 stack interchanges? We don't have anywhere near the level of traffic that would require that sort of design capacity. I know you love big highway spending...but the proof is out there as well that it is unsustainable at current levels and people don't want to pay for it.

I'm all about discussing unique design strategies and such. Heck when I am bored I'll dabble in SimCity and CitiesXL for a couple hours.

[Plutonic Panda]

The traffic counts come nowhere near justifying building something like this. And even if ODOT was funded like it should be, OK simply doesn't have the tax base to warrant such a huge expense. Remember Dallas, Collin, and Denton Counties combined have a larger population than the entire state of Oklahoma.

There are many types of interchanges that don't cost $500 million and can handle the traffic in that area for the foreseeable future. But hey if you have a cool half billion to spare...

No offense PP as you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I'm not sure you fully grasp the concept of costs for stuff like this.

Well, maybe you're right. It would just be nice to have some decent interchanges in this city. I'm not trying to advocate every interchange become a high five, I suppose it may sound like that when I get excited about these things, but ODOT's strategies just makes no sense sometimes.

[Plutonic Panda]

I don't hate Dallas at all. I just don't think we should continue to be looking at it as a model for what to do here. Yes there are things that they have that can work here, but we also have to consider relative scale to our community. Detroit does have some pretty significant overpasses. I-75 going towards downtown before the bridge is one of them...but if it was done today, it wouldn't exist.

Why do we need 4, 5, or 6 stack interchanges? We don't have anywhere near the level of traffic that would require that sort of design capacity. I know you love big highway spending...but the proof is out there as well that it is unsustainable at current levels and people don't want to pay for it.

I'm all about discussing unique design strategies and such. Heck when I am bored I'll dabble in SimCity and CitiesXL for a couple hours.

Well, I really can't say for sure what is really needed as I haven't extensively studied the traffic counts for these interchanges. I can see a four or five stack interchange for I44/I40, but if no one really thinks it needed, then I don't know what to say.

Also I'm trying to advocate OKC replicate and become a mini Dallas, I too think OKC should set it's own way, just with better interchanges lol. .

Detroit does have some pretty significant overpasses. I-75 going towards downtown before the bridge is one of them...but if it was done today, it wouldn't exist

I'm not sure what you mean.

[Plutonic Panda]

and btw, I really want balanced spending. I don't want the majority of money going towards highway and neglecting mass transit and such. I would love to see a light-rail system here in OKC just as much as I want to see a five stack either placed on I-35/240 or I44/I40

[bluedogok]

Well, to be fair Austin is only served by one interstate and is growing as insane levels. The population is exploding there. I didn't mean to say that Dallas is at the top of the lists due to the high five, it just seems sometimes people here like to put Dallas down as a bad city.

Austin had a city council problem in their boom of the 90's (and still do to some extent), the council back then had an "if you don't build it, they won't come" mentality. We have all seen how well that has worked out. It also comes down to legislative dollars, the people in DFW, Houston and San Antonio don't want it spent in Austin and the Austin area has some pretty weak legislative representation in the Texas legislature. Sound familiar? People from outside the capital city thinking too much is already spent there?

I also can't think of anything quite like the High 5 in Denver, there are some flyover interchanges but nothing that extreme.

[Plutonic Panda]

Austin had a city council problem in their boom of the 90's (and still do to some extent), the council back then had an "if you don't build it, they won't come" mentality. We have all seen how well that has worked out. It also comes down to legislative dollars, the people in DFW, Houston and San Antonio don't want it spent in Austin and the Austin area has some pretty weak legislative representation in the Texas legislature. Sound familiar? People from outside the capital city thinking too much is already spent there?

I also can't think of anything quite like the High 5 in Denver, there are some flyover interchanges but nothing that extreme.

I thought Denver had a five stack interchange somewhere?

[bluedogok]

I thought Denver had a five stack interchange somewhere?

I just can't think of where it would be, even 25/70 isn't like one of the Dallas interchanges. No service roads passing through the interchanges in that area that I can think of. If there is one, it would more than likely be in the northwest area as I tend to stay from downtown south or my weekly trip out to DIA.

[venture]

Well, I really can't say for sure what is really needed as I haven't extensively studied the traffic counts for these interchanges. I can see a four or five stack interchange for I44/I40, but if no one really thinks it needed, then I don't know what to say.

Also I'm trying to advocate OKC replicate and become a mini Dallas, I too think OKC should set it's own way, just with better interchanges lol. .

I'm not sure what you mean.

There is the problem. Not everyone wants to be a mini Dallas. We want to be OKC. As far as the I-75 comment...the interstate from the Marathon refinery is elevated all the way to just north of the Rouge River. Today it would likely be at grade or close instead of significantly elevated...except where needed.

[Plutonic Panda]

There is the problem. Not everyone wants to be a mini Dallas. We want to be OKC. As far as the I-75 comment...the interstate from the Marathon refinery is elevated all the way to just north of the Rouge River. Today it would likely be at grade or close instead of significantly elevated...except where needed.

Venture, I'm sorry, I meant to say I'm not trying to advocate OKC become a mini Dallas lol. . . left out a very important part. I just wanted a highway system here similar to Dallas's highway network. Obviously it would be in scale to the needs of OKC, but it would be more efficient.

[Plutonic Panda]

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/newsm...n_advisory.pdf

[Plutonic Panda]

From The Tulsa World

OKLAHOMA CITY — The state Department of Transportation will start next fiscal year with $28.5 million less to spend due to budget cuts and funding changes last legislative session, agency Executive Director Mike Patterson said Monday.

A portion of the reduction in revenues came via the state budget compromise hammered out by legislative leaders and Gov. Mary Fallin during the session, which ended last month. ODOT was among several state agencies to receive a 5.5 percent reduction in fiscal 2015 funding.

For ODOT, the 5.5 percent reduction will mean the loss of slightly more than $11 million in fuel tax revenues, Patterson said.

“It will be difficult … but we will get through it,” Patterson told the state Transportation Commission during its monthly meeting.

The 2015 fiscal year begins July 1. ODOT’s total budget, including federal funds, will be about $1.8 billion.

Patterson said details on how the cuts will be implemented are not finalized but said the reduction wouldn’t affect the agency’s eight-year construction work plan “at all.”

Rather, Patterson said ODOT will be looking to reduce spending on equipment next year. Some reduction in personnel spending is possible, but layoffs will not be necessary, he said.
The Legislature also took $17.5 million in ODOT revolving fund revenues generated by weigh station operations.

“So we are going to have to make some operational adjustments there as well,” Patterson said.

“Likely, all weigh stations will remain open; it’s just how much improvements will be made,” Patterson said. “Many of those weigh stations are old and functionally obsolete.”

Patterson said the reduction in weigh station revolving fund revenues won’t impact spending on new so-called port-of-entry weigh and inspection stations at the state’s borders.
What it eventually will affect is maintenance at the current weigh stations or operations at the permitting office, Patterson said.

- ODOT hit with $28.5 million in budget cuts - Tulsa World: Capitol Report

Some info about the long range plan meeting

The Oklahoma Department of Transportation plans to hold three public hearings on the state’s Long Range Transportation Plan for 2015-2040.

The hearings will be held June 10, Muskogee Civic Center, Muskogee; June 11, Moore Public Library; and June 12 at the Frisco Center, Clinton.

Comments can also be mailed to ODOT Long Range Transportation Plan, 200 N.E. 21st St., Oklahoma City 73105 or submitted online at HOME

- ODOT hit with $28.5 million in budget cuts - Tulsa World: Capitol Report

[Plutonic Panda]

So if anyone wants to go voice out in support of passenger rail funding in Oklahoma, perhaps this is the time do it. I still wish we get a separate rail commission.

The Long Range Transportation Plan is a policy context for transportation issues in Oklahoma for the next 25 years. In accordance with federal law, the Long Range Transportation Plan focuses on highways & bridges, public transportation, freight movement, passenger rail, bicycle & pedestrian networks, and access to air & water ports. This plan is updated every five years.

Just FYI, I will be submitting a comment about increasing passenger rail funding and building better interchanges than what is currently proposed.

[Plutonic Panda]

News9

OKLAHOMA CITY - Millions of dollars for our roads and highways could soon be cut.
The Federal Highway Trust Fund is nearing an end unless congress acts. The House has passed a short term extension, but nothing has been finalized. This is an eight-year plan for the Oklahoma Department of Transportation. Now, it's in jeopardy, and that has some small businesses on alert.

"We hope the roads are maintained, and if they're not it trickles down to everybody," said Nathan Howell, with Affiliated Movers of OKC Inc.

Howell loves the company's roots but knows that if its home state's roads can't be maintained or updated, it could be costly to the company.

"[I have been in] Oklahoma since the beginning. Always been here, always will," said Howell. "We move some very delicate things. It affects the wear and tear on our trucks. It affects the time if we have to re-route our drivers."

Howell's concerns are in the same gear as the Oklahoma Department of Transportation (ODOT), which relies on an annual $500 million from the Highway Trust Fund.

"The worst part of this is the uncertainty. It's not knowing from day to day, letting a contractor working on a project and having to stop payments," said Terri Angier with ODOT.

And without those federal dollars, 37 projects in August alone will take a direct hit, and the entire eight year plan is basically trash. For example, the next construction phases at I-235 and I-44.

"It would be irresponsible if we don't know," said Angier.

Howell does know a fix from D.C. is vital.

"We are not a big business. We don't have the newest and biggest trucks so it's important to have good roads," said Howell.

"We need to start getting with the times and come up with a more permanent solution," said Angier.

The ongoing project at I-40 and Mustang Rd. would be put on hold if no decision is made by Congress,

Congress has until the end of the month, or when it breaks for recess, to make a decision on the future of the funds.

- Funding For Oklahoma Roads Could Get Cut - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

[betts]

I want a rail system like Dallas. They can keep the roads.

[bombermwc]

Anyone catch the show on OETA the other day about gas taxes/road funding/etc? I didn't get to see much of it, but what I did see seemed to be a great explanation of where we stand respectively on how much we pay to maintain our roads (taxes). Sort of a "you get what you pay for" and comparing that to what other countries pay. Gave some good analogies on numbers of cars in 1980 vs today and the corolation between the way funding and construction hasn't gone up proportionally to the number of cars on the road. I did not watch to see if they mentioned anything about mass transit...which I feel like should be part of the discussion. Of course, I'm not shy about saying I think commuter rail will have to be done in one large project in OKC or it wont ever take off, but that's another topic.

[Plutonic Panda]

I want a rail system like Dallas. They can keep the roads.

I want a super higher way system.

[venture]

I want a super higher way system.

So about 4 of these on top of each other?

[Plutonic Panda]

Comparing Road, Bridge Quality by State - Real Time Economics - WSJ