Adventure District Rail Line

[Just the facts]

It's not just an existing right of way, it's an existing rail. Very little modification ($$$) needs to be spent to get that line working again. The cost to buy new rail and place it in the street would be hundreds of millions. (more than the MAPS3 streetcar budget). The streetcar can run on that line as it is. All you need is a power source and some small modifications to certain areas of the line.

There is a lot more to it than that. The safety requirements for mixing passenger and freight probably takes any type of streetcar out of the mix. Plus, it could be free to build but with no riders what difference does it make?

[catch22]

What freight? No one uses that line....in fact, I believe the city owns it? (or part of it?)

[Just the facts]

Union Pacific uses it, plus the track is used by the Oklahoma Railway Museum so whatever passenger type is added would need to survive and impact with it.

[Urban Pioneer]

Not going to address all the comments. Again, this was a technicall feasability study. The rest takes re-imagining Ward 7. The immediate benefit to ongoing MAPS 3 stuff is the Bricktown section.

The rest is up to the Adventure District, Councilman Pettis, and Ward 7 citizens.

[Just the facts]

So you are saying - toss out any ridership and development issues, it was simply - can the route physically support the transit?

[Urban Pioneer]

Mostly. Again, it was a technical study. It helps us negotiate with Union Pacific and understand connectivity to Santa Fe Station. If councilman pursues it, a secondary study or an extension of this study needs to be engaged that would demonstrate where you would extend the line to beyond 50th street and whether you would follow a different alignment that would pick up OUHSC and more central sections of WARD 7.

This study will also help the rail road museum in their efforts.

Regardless, it is up to the Councilman and Ward 7 constituents to pursue this further.

[OKCisOK4me]

It's not just an existing right of way, it's an existing rail. Very little modification ($$$) needs to be spent to get that line working again. The cost to buy new rail and place it in the street would be hundreds of millions. (more than the MAPS3 streetcar budget). The streetcar can run on that line as it is. All you need is a power source and some small modifications to certain areas of the line.

I beg to differ. That line hasn't seen major Class I freight activity since the early 1980s. While ORM volunteers have spent time rehabilitating the line, it would be in the city's best interest to bring this line up to full time active passenger status.

"In the US, rail weight varries from 80-90 lb/yd (pounds/yard) in small yards to 100-110 lb/yd on light duty track and between 130 and 141 lbs on heavy duty track. Rail of 141 lbs is the new main line standard."

Infrastructure

I don't know if you've walked the fitness trail over in that area that hugs that line just west of I-35 but it is not the greatest line.

[Larry OKC]

What freight? No one uses that line....in fact, I believe the city owns it? (or part of it?)

From the article...

The north end of the line now is used for slow-moving sightseeing trains. The Union Pacific Railroad uses another section to provide freight service to a couple of businesses.

[OKCisOK4me]

Yeah, and my guess is, all traffic probably is limited to a 10-15mph restriction due to the condition the current rail line is in, not to mention switching operations for those businesses in and around NE 8th to 10th/MLK.

[catch22]

I beg to differ. That line hasn't seen major Class I freight activity since the early 1980s. While ORM volunteers have spent time rehabilitating the line, it would be in the city's best interest to bring this line up to full time active passenger status.

"In the US, rail weight varries from 80-90 lb/yd (pounds/yard) in small yards to 100-110 lb/yd on light duty track and between 130 and 141 lbs on heavy duty track. Rail of 141 lbs is the new main line standard."

Infrastructure

I don't know if you've walked the fitness trail over in that area that hugs that line just west of I-35 but it is not the greatest line.

Sorry for not being more clear, relative to buying and installing new rail as the post I quoted suggested, the cost to rehabilitate and bring an existing line up to standard is very little in comparison.

[OKCisOK4me]

Relative to streetcar, yes I agree with you ;-)

[Spartan]

I beg to differ. That line hasn't seen major Class I freight activity since the early 1980s. While ORM volunteers have spent time rehabilitating the line, it would be in the city's best interest to bring this line up to full time active passenger status.

"In the US, rail weight varries from 80-90 lb/yd (pounds/yard) in small yards to 100-110 lb/yd on light duty track and between 130 and 141 lbs on heavy duty track. Rail of 141 lbs is the new main line standard."

Infrastructure

I don't know if you've walked the fitness trail over in that area that hugs that line just west of I-35 but it is not the greatest line.

It would be great to have streetcar traversing every street in OKC but we're maximizing efficiencies, pinching pennies, and trying to make the most of the funding we are lucky to have. A $100M tourist streetcar line is not a good use of resources. If using the existing tracks only costs $10M that is a more reasonable proposition, but still begs the question as to whether rail service to the zoo should be a priority. Once again, for some reason the zoo is a higher priority than real transit service is.

[Spartan]

I beg to differ. That line hasn't seen major Class I freight activity since the early 1980s. While ORM volunteers have spent time rehabilitating the line, it would be in the city's best interest to bring this line up to full time active passenger status.

"In the US, rail weight varries from 80-90 lb/yd (pounds/yard) in small yards to 100-110 lb/yd on light duty track and between 130 and 141 lbs on heavy duty track. Rail of 141 lbs is the new main line standard."

Infrastructure

I don't know if you've walked the fitness trail over in that area that hugs that line just west of I-35 but it is not the greatest line.

It would be great to have streetcar traversing every street in OKC but we're maximizing efficiencies, pinching pennies, and trying to make the most of the funding we are lucky to have. A $100M tourist streetcar line is not a good use of resources.

[workman45]

nm

[Urban Pioneer]

From the article...

UP leases a section from COTPA to gain access to the Miracle Oil Company. If the track is shared, it will require Positive Train Control and FRA compliant vehicles.

If it is isolated, with separation, and COTPA controls the entirety of the line, mixed traffic (both streetcar and heavy rail) can use the same tracks.

This is a complicated issue- thus the study.

[Dubya61]

UP leases a section from COTPA to gain access to the Miracle Oil Company. If the track is shared, it will require Positive Train Control and FRA compliant vehicles.

If it is isolated, with separation, and COTPA controls the entirety of the line, mixed traffic (both streetcar and heavy rail) can use the same tracks.

This is a complicated issue- thus the study.

and with those three sentences my head hurts. Thank GOD I don't mess with that for a living.

[Urban Pioneer]

lol

[Plutonic Panda]

What is the status of this?

[Plutonic Panda]

So what is going on with this? Wasn't this supposed a light rail line? Have they moved forward or gotten closer to actual construction?

[baralheia]

Judging by the results of the CentralOK!go commuter transit corridors study, I think it's pretty unlikely that this corridor will be activated for public transportation use anytime soon. If anything happens here short-term, my best guess would be an excursion train from Bricktown to the Oklahoma Railway Museum... but I think that at least for now, that's a pretty big "if".

[Tritone]

As I understand it (based of course on second and third-hand knowledge) a big snag is the way the line runs through the Union Pacific (UP) yard just east of bricktown.
I still think there are some possibilities there. Imagine an un-filled parking lot or two at the zoo, Science Museum Oklahoma, and Remington Park and a major party venue or two downtown or in Bricktown on New Years' Eve. Throw in a couple strips of steel 4 feet 8 1/2 inches apart connecting the two areas.

[Urban Pioneer]

I personally fought for the study to be completed. It was very detailed and included alternatives between excursion trains to rapid streetcar. The study only examined how to get to NE 50th street however and not actually how to get to the front door of each institution at the end of the line.

Councilman Pettis wants to see rapid streetcar along this corridor. That was the most expensive option in the alternatives.

The biggest problem with this coming into actual fruition is that the beneficiaries... i.e. zoo trust, Remmington Park, softball fields, Tinsel Town, etc have not actually fought to see it funded.

Tying into the 23rd street bus line changes the dynamic of the line into a public transit mechanism substantially. It could be a great opportunity with a bit of imagination and political clout. Unfortunately, there seems to be a deficit in both areas right now.

[baralheia]

I'd love to see this line be more active! But, honestly, I don't think it's that likely. Another barrier to using the line for public transport is that this line goes right through the middle of the lubricants manufacturing facility there at 10th and Eastern. Unless they move, or reconfigure their facility, running any sort of passenger rail through here will probably not be easy.

[Urban Pioneer]

I'd love to see this line be more active! But, honestly, I don't think it's that likely. Another barrier to using the line for public transport is that this line goes right through the middle of the lubricants manufacturing facility there at 10th and Eastern. Unless they move, or reconfigure their facility, running any sort of passenger rail through here will probably not be easy.

The processing plant was proposed to be dealt with three diferent ways. All doable.

[baralheia]

UP, is the proposal posted publicly anywhere? I'd love to give it a read