I240 Revitalization Efforts

[Plutonic Panda]

I don't think Tulsa could at the moment, because its not the city that determines these things. All the interchange designs are in the hands of ODOT. The only way Tulsa is getting a major stack interchange is if there is a change of ODOT policy and the first project after the change happens to be in Tulsa.

This isn't just an Oklahoma thing though. North Carolina only has one four-level stack in the state and it was built fairly recently in Charlotte. Tennessee on the other hand has them everywhere. Driving through Nashville on I-40 makes me think of Texas cities because of how the freeways are built. Tennessee's transportation department I believe gets far more funding and it shows.

So back onto this interchange, is it at least going to be three-levels or will it be ground level like the current interchange?

I think this one will be at least 3 or 4 levels.

[ljbab728]

Well, that's only true during rush hour, but imagine how worse it would be if they were still all cloverleafs? Dallas still has plenty of cloverleaf interchanges, but the 5 stack interchanges are breathtaking and magnificent, so efficient and ease of use.

I was doing 90MPH and still had a few people passing me on the North Dallas Tollway. I loved it!!!!!!

I've driven on Dallas freeways for at least 40 years and totally disagree. I've been in very slow traffic at 11PM at night. I'm sure you enjoy doing 90, plupan, but please be careful. That's totally dangerous on a city freeway.

[Plutonic Panda]

I've driven on Dallas freeways for at least 40 years and totally disagree. I've been in very slow traffic at 11PM at night. I'm sure you enjoy doing 90, plupan, but please be careful. That's totally dangerous on a city freeway.

Huh, well I was there last weekend, and it had better traffic then OKC, guess it's bipolar.

As for me speeding, I actually have been slowing down and driving the speed limit lately, but you are completely right about it being dangerous. I've actually been looking into a good track around here, but haven't found much. :/

Anyways, perhaps there was a wreck or a football game going on when you there?

[ljbab728]

Huh, well I was there last weekend, and it had better traffic then OKC, guess it's bipolar.

As for me speeding, I actually have been slowing down and driving the speed limit lately, but you are completely right about it being dangerous. I've actually been looking into a good track around here, but haven't found much. :/

Anyways, perhaps there was a wreck or a football game going on when you there?

Nope, no wrecks and no football games. It's just extremely busy almost any time of the day. And I'm glad you're slowing down. I did the same thing when I was your age so I understand the thrill. It only takes one quick slip up at 90 MPH per hour to be fatal for you or someone in another car. Please try to remember that. It could ruin your life.

[MWCGuy]

What I consider crazy are folks doing 20+ over the speed limit in the city during the day. You never know when a tire will blow, you might debris in the road or someone may pullout in front of you causing you to crash and take out as many as dozen other cars.

If any of you have the time to take OSU-OKC's Precision Driving Course I would encourage you to do so. It's worth the time and the money, not to mention it will save you a few dollars on car insurance. I took through work and I came away with a whole new set of driving skills.

In regards to the topic, I think 240 needs to be reconfigured to where the service road can only be accessed at certain points instead of driveway cutaways every 50 feet. The westbound Penn off ramp and eastbound Walker off ramp are nightmares to navigate on most days.

[Plutonic Panda]

What I consider crazy are folks doing 20+ over the speed limit in the city during the day. You never know when a tire will blow, you might debris in the road or someone may pullout in front of you causing you to crash and take out as many as dozen other cars.

If any of you have the time to take OSU-OKC's Precision Driving Course I would encourage you to do so. It's worth the time and the money, not to mention it will save you a few dollars on car insurance. I took through work and I came away with a whole new set of driving skills.

In regards to the topic, I think 240 needs to be reconfigured to where the service road can only be accessed at certain points instead of driveway cutaways every 50 feet. The westbound Penn off ramp and eastbound Walker off ramp are nightmares to navigate on most days.

I've been thinking of doing that for some time now.

I also completely agree with limiting the access of the highway.

[OKVision4U]

The skill set I like to use at the I-240 area is my ability to manage our " On / Off " Ramps that provide 50 ft. for decision making & life saving skills! Why do we still have On / Off Ramps in the year 2013? ...This is the best of our Okie Engineering. ... it makes me proud.

[bchris02]

The skill set I like to use at the I-240 area is my ability to manage our " On / Off " Ramps that provide 50 ft. for decision making & life saving skills! Why do we still have On / Off Ramps in the year 2013? ...This is the best of our Okie Engineering. ... it makes me proud.

I am not sure I understand. Unless you are proposing downgrading I-240 from a freeway to a boulevard, it has to have on and off-ramps. Maybe they should only have them at the mile thoroughfares though i.e. getting rid of the Walker exit and possibly choosing either than Shields or Santa Fe and getting rid of the other.

I-240 is too important in my opinion to downgrade.

[Plutonic Panda]

There are no highways in OKC that should be downgraded to a street or divided BLVD. If people want to remove the portion of I-235 that runs near downtown, well, that is for the community to decide. I would vote against it, but that's just me. Maybe I'm biased towards cars.

[bchris02]

There are no highways in OKC that should be downgraded to a street or divided BLVD. If people want to remove the portion of I-235 that runs near downtown, well, that is for the community to decide. I would vote against it, but that's just me. Maybe I'm biased towards cars.

I can see the point in wanting to downgrade I-235 but I too am against it. I-235 is very important in bringing people into downtown from Edmond and the north metro. If there is one freeway in OKC that I would say isn't that important, it is I-35 between I-40 and I-44, but I doubt that area will ever be in play.

[OKVision4U]

I am not sure I understand. Unless you are proposing downgrading I-240 from a freeway to a boulevard, it has to have on and off-ramps. Maybe they should only have them at the mile thoroughfares though i.e. getting rid of the Walker exit and possibly choosing either than Shields or Santa Fe and getting rid of the other.

I-240 is too important in my opinion to downgrade.

OK, when you try to exit on I-240 from Western & Walker, the one exiting does NOT have their own exit (or even space) drive on. The on-coming traffic is using the same (dedicated space) to merge on-to the freeway. And to make it worse, it is a very very short ramp. A person has to hit their breaks while on the freeway until you (both) find a space to merge in-to.

[bombermwc]

Someone must have listened, because they're repaving the frontage road on the west end, north side. That wasn't really where it was needed the most, but maybe they're starting on one end and moving down??

[Zuplar]

Someone must have listened, because they're repaving the frontage road on the west end, north side. That wasn't really where it was needed the most, but maybe they're starting on one end and moving down??

Now that you say that I noticed that when I went to Outback last week. One late had already been done at that time.

[Plutonic Panda]

These people were walking out of a McDonalds and having pull the stroller up over the curbs and push it through the grass and repeat it over and over again. I took this picture after the the lady tripped and fell on the curb trying to get the stroller over it. There really needs to be sidewalks here.


They should widen these service roads to three lanes each way anyways, it is getting way to congested. This highway needs to have some of its on/off removed to, that would help some.

[Spartan]

Just read through this thread. Suburb worship is so weird to me. So is a 4-stack freeway interchange like the D cup of sprawl?

[bchris02]

Just read through this thread. Suburb worship is so weird to me. So is a 4-stack freeway interchange like the D cup of sprawl?

A healthy city has a strong downtown and healthy suburbs. The I-240 area really needs a shot in the arm but I wouldn't say it is yet so far gone that it can't come back. If something doesn't change though it could end up that way. As for stack interchanges, they move traffic much more efficiently than do the cloverleafs that OKC currently has.

[Plutonic Panda]

Stack interchanges are great

[Spartan]

A healthy city has a strong downtown and healthy suburbs. The I-240 area really needs a shot in the arm but I wouldn't say it is yet so far gone that it can't come back. If something doesn't change though it could end up that way. As for stack interchanges, they move traffic much more efficiently than do the cloverleafs that OKC currently has.

I agree but they're also a lot more expensive.

As for the "shot in the arm" I-240 needs, what do you propose? Just reworking the feeder road, widening it, reducing curb cuts, and then tearing down some of the strip mall dreck and replacing with new strip mall dreck that will last 20 years?

I am curious how you think suburban planning should "work" to solve the obvious problems that are inherent with...suburbs

[bchris02]

I agree but they're also a lot more expensive.

As for the "shot in the arm" I-240 needs, what do you propose? Just reworking the feeder road, widening it, reducing curb cuts, and then tearing down some of the strip mall dreck and replacing with new strip mall dreck that will last 20 years?

I am curious how you think suburban planning should "work" to solve the obvious problems that are inherent with...suburbs

Suburban development is going to always have inherent problems. Making I-240 conform to urbanist standards is not economically feasible nor is it the shot in the arm the area needs. What the I-240 area needs is a commercial focal point like Crossroads Mall used to be. It needs something to draw people there who wouldn't otherwise go. Most of the economic development on the south side of the metro has migrated to south Moore and Norman. If current trends continue, the I-240 area will continue to rot and become blight. When I lived in OKC the first time in the late '90s, I-240 was a much nicer corridor than it is today with many prominent retailers and restaurants doing business there. Today, it's barely still relevant but give it ten more years and it will no longer be.

[OKVision4U]

I agree but they're also a lot more expensive.

As for the "shot in the arm" I-240 needs, what do you propose? Just reworking the feeder road, widening it, reducing curb cuts, and then tearing down some of the strip mall dreck and replacing with new strip mall dreck that will last 20 years?

I am curious how you think suburban planning should "work" to solve the obvious problems that are inherent with...suburbs

For our major corridors, why would we want anything less? If the stack is the obvious solution, then why wouldn't we hold them to this standard?

[Plutonic Panda]

Because they're too expensive and we can't afford it while tons of other cities are going the stack interchange route. /sarcasm

[macfoucin]

Maybe we could add a few roundabouts at I240, that seems to be a cureall for some.

[SoonerDave]

I agree but they're also a lot more expensive.

As for the "shot in the arm" I-240 needs, what do you propose? Just reworking the feeder road, widening it, reducing curb cuts, and then tearing down some of the strip mall dreck and replacing with new strip mall dreck that will last 20 years?

I am curious how you think suburban planning should "work" to solve the obvious problems that are inherent with...suburbs

Think in this vein we have to be diligent about distinguishing our likes and dislikes from what constitutes good planning. Those who pre-emptively hate the suburbs for whatever reason will never like any plan to modify or update them unless that plan forces them into being what they prefer in the first place - urban areas. That is, it wouldn't be sensible to me, given my preference for the suburbs, to start referring to concrete jungles as "urban dreck" merely because I don't prefer them.

I-240 needs a variety of things to help improve - in terms of simple eye appeal, a great first step would be the elimination of the pole-mounted signs and replacement with monument-mounted variety. Second, the traffic flow along the entire breadth of that stretch needs to be re-thought, especially in terms of the (eventual?) I-35 interchange rebuild - and a great first step would be to close off the Shields Avenue on-ramp. I have also wondered if widened service roads would be beneficial in this area, as traffic on the westbound service road at Penn can become especially congested during rush hour and into the early evenings.

In terms of business, however, there's not a great deal you can do because the tenancy along that stretch varies so widely - lesser apartments and a fairly nasty hotel (with no small crime history) at one end, a police facility at the other, and a variety of new-to-damaged-credit car dealerships and a varying retail mix in between, all couched amid some decent if older (60's/70's era) residential areas. Some here old enough to remember can hearken the days when the Southern Hills Shopping Center on the south side of I-240 at Penn was actually the grand old TG&Y Family Center that spanned nearly the entire center - and thankfully, when that place was rehabbed many moons ago, they at least maintained the brick veneer. The Walnut Creek center on the north side, west of Penn, has been problematic for years, although I will say Hobby Lobby's decision to move into the old Price Chopper/PriceMart (whatever) seems to have perked up that area some. The problem is that particular shopping area is so far pushed back from the street its just not very "accessible" (or at least doesn't seem that way).

All this blathering is to say I don't think there's a single magic bullet that will revive the area. As bchris02 pointed out, there's movement south and southwest of that area - even out of OKC as I-240 turns SW into I-44 - and hence a lot of sales tax $$ are heading to the Tri City area. Heck, figure that has to be why they're working hard to develop that Portland area near the airport into some nicer retail options. Would also have to think Odom would be invested in getting that area rehabbed/upgraded, as I believe he still owns/develops the 240 Penn Plaza (with the PetsMart/Mardel/Old Navy etc).

[Spartan]

I'm not saying to urbanize it. Yes, we need to find ways to revitalize this stretch or else we will lose out to Moore but I can't say enough doubling down on the failures isn't the right way. 240 isn't going to out-Moore Moore. Let Moore worry about the consequences of it's strip mall dreck in 20-30 years.

[SouthSide]

For those in the know, has any action being taken on the Envision 240 study? I believe the study was completed in 2014 and I have not seen any action on improving this area.