Black Range Rover Runs Over Bikers to Save Family

[BBatesokc]

Yeah, gosh. The idea that private citizens would take it upon themselves to practice vigilante behavior.

Pretty pathetic if someone felt attacking a man with his wife and child was justified 'vigilante' behavior over a fender-bender.

There is a huge difference between taking existing laws into one's hands and ignoring the law and enacting your own - which is what they did.

[Teo9969]

reports (who knows if true) that the SUV driver clipped a bike rider with his side mirror and that sparked the entire deal ..

Given that that was true, you still don't surround a car and force that drivers hand. It's physically threatening if not life threatening. Sure a few of the bike riders could *follow* this guy to make sure that he had to face his crime...but stalking the guy is totally uncalled for.

[jerrywall]

Pretty pathetic if someone felt attacking a man with his wife and child was justified 'vigilante' behavior over a fender-bender.

There is a huge difference between taking existing laws into one's hands and ignoring the law and enacting your own - which is what they did.

It was a joke.

However, to clarify. They didn't attack the man with his wife and child before he tried to kill a few of them. From the look of the video, they restrained/contained him (which was still stupid, but that seems to be the initial vigilante action) after he clipped one of them and them left the scene of the incident. Then he ran over several of them (escalating the situation) and then they continued to escalate it further. A lot of stupidity on all sides.

[BBatesokc]

It was a joke.

However, to clarify. They didn't attack the man with his wife and child before he tried to kill a few of them. From the look of the video, they restrained/contained him (which was still stupid, but that seems to be the initial vigilante action) after he clipped one of them and them left the scene of the incident. Then he ran over several of them (escalating the situation) and then they continued to escalate it further. A lot of stupidity on all sides.

Sorry, wasn't meaning my response as directed at you. But I know some have had that opinion on other sites.

Surrounding the vehicle in the initial scene 'may' border on overreacting by driving through the crowd - but the reports I read say the crowd was hitting his car and slashing the tires..... that's a whole new level of stupid.

[tomokc]

It was a joke.

However, to clarify. They didn't attack the man with his wife and child before he tried to kill a few of them. From the look of the video, they restrained/contained him (which was still stupid, but that seems to be the initial vigilante action) after he clipped one of them and them left the scene of the incident. Then he ran over several of them (escalating the situation) and then they continued to escalate it further. A lot of stupidity on all sides.

GOPR2900 - YouTube I post this video because the original one in this thread has been removed.

Jerry, it appeared to me that the SUV driver was stopped and boxed in by the motorcyclists who were trying to drag him out of the car. At 0:26 the motorcyclist slows in front of the SUV (brake checks), is struck from behind, and the SUV stops. At 0:45 the SUV is stopped and surrounded, and at least one motorcyclist is trying to open the door. At 0:50 the SUV takes off, driving over who- and whatever was in front of him. He wasn't trying to kill them, he was trying to escape. Later at 5:05 he is stopped again, but with fewer motorcyclists in front of him as another person actually succeeds in opening the door. The SUV then takes off again. At 6:15 the SUV stops for the third time, is blocked by other cars without any means of escape, and the motorcyclists break into the car, drag the motorist out and assault him.

I see it differently than you do. The motorist didn't run over the motorcyclists except when he was stopped and they were trying to tear him out of his car. Only when stopped for the third time - when he couldn't get away - did they accomplish what he feared they would do all along. As security expert Manuel Gomez said in my post #39, “you have the right to defend yourself, by hook or by crook.” The motorcyclists had more than numbers on their side, he said: “Superior weapons, because they were using their helmets. All he’s got is a cellphone and a vehicle. Take them out. Whatever you have to do. Figure it out later.”

[jerrywall]

The whole thing to me just seems like one big cluster-you-know-what.

[Teo9969]

It was a joke.

However, to clarify. They didn't attack the man with his wife and child before he tried to kill a few of them. From the look of the video, they restrained/contained him (which was still stupid, but that seems to be the initial vigilante action) after he clipped one of them and them left the scene of the incident. Then he ran over several of them (escalating the situation) and then they continued to escalate it further. A lot of stupidity on all sides.

A group surrounding and stopping a car in the middle of a freeway *is* an attack. They didn't need to touch the car at all. There simply is no argument against this very basic concept.

[FromTtown]

It is totally the guy in the SUVs fault. How dare he protect his family. No one has a right to eff with bikers at all as they DO own the road. If you have a family then you have no right to be safe once you leave your house. How can all of you people defend this idiot driving the SUV? I hope you guys are all beaten to a pulp by bikers here in OKC. That would be some awesome news coverage, roving gangs of bikers in OKC beating up families that get in their way in their oversized SUVs. I know some bikers personally and they wouldn't hesitate to beat someones ass for no reason. I hope you guys get to meet them.

FromTtown

[jerrywall]

A group surrounding and stopping a car in the middle of a freeway *is* an attack. They didn't need to touch the car at all. There simply is no argument against this very basic concept.

I was involved in an (almost) hit and run a couple of years ago. A guy ran a red light, and plowed into my car (with my wife and kids in it) and then backed up and attempted to take off from the scene. Luckily, a few of the other cars moved and blocked him in (including a large pick-up truck that the guy plowed into). Probably not the smart thing to do, and the police would rather you NEVER take the law into your own hands. However, I'm happy they did it.

2 weeks ago my friend purchased a brand new street king. On the day he tagged it he was parked at a bar with a bunch of friends when another bike came out and dropped his bike onto my friends' bike. The guy hopped on his bike and tried to take off, and all of the other bikers surrounded him and kept him from leaving. They didn't do anything to him; the only goal was to get his insurance information.

In both of these cases, I *guess* the person surrounded would have been legally justified in pulling a gun and shooting folks. Thank god not everyone thinks that way.

[jerrywall]

It is totally the guy in the SUVs fault. How dare he protect his family. No one has a right to eff with bikers at all as they DO own the road. If you have a family then you have no right to be safe once you leave your house. How can all of you people defend this idiot driving the SUV? I hope you guys are all beaten to a pulp by bikers here in OKC. That would be some awesome news coverage, roving gangs of bikers in OKC beating up families that get in their way in their oversized SUVs. I know some bikers personally and they wouldn't hesitate to beat someones ass for no reason. I hope you guys get to meet them.

FromTtown

Well, you can act like a jerk all you want, but no one here is saying this is the guy in the SUVs fault. My only point is that the whole thing is a cluster, and I think every party involved has at least *some* culpability.

[BBatesokc]

I was involved in an (almost) hit and run a couple of years ago. A guy ran a red light, and plowed into my car (with my wife and kids in it) and then backed up and attempted to take off from the scene. Luckily, a few of the other cars moved and blocked him in (including a large pick-up truck that the guy plowed into). Probably not the smart thing to do, and the police would rather you NEVER take the law into your own hands. However, I'm happy they did it.

2 weeks ago my friend purchased a brand new street king. On the day he tagged it he was parked at a bar with a bunch of friends when another bike came out and dropped his bike onto my friends' bike. The guy hopped on his bike and tried to take off, and all of the other bikers surrounded him and kept him from leaving. They didn't do anything to him; the only goal was to get his insurance information.

In both of these cases, I *guess* the person surrounded would have been legally justified in pulling a gun and shooting folks. Thank god not everyone thinks that way.

That's all fine-and-well - EXCEPT in both of your scenarios the person surrounded had done something significantly wrong without provocation.

I've seen/heard of nothing the SUV driver did that was provocative.

Naturally if you've committed a crime then you have pretty good idea why people want to detain you.

[Teo9969]

I was involved in an (almost) hit and run a couple of years ago. A guy ran a red light, and plowed into my car (with my wife and kids in it) and then backed up and attempted to take off from the scene. Luckily, a few of the other cars moved and blocked him in (including a large pick-up truck that the guy plowed into). Probably not the smart thing to do, and the police would rather you NEVER take the law into your own hands. However, I'm happy they did it.

2 weeks ago my friend purchased a brand new street king. On the day he tagged it he was parked at a bar with a bunch of friends when another bike came out and dropped his bike onto my friends' bike. The guy hopped on his bike and tried to take off, and all of the other bikers surrounded him and kept him from leaving. They didn't do anything to him; the only goal was to get his insurance information.

In both of these cases, I *guess* the person surrounded would have been legally justified in pulling a gun and shooting folks. Thank god not everyone thinks that way.

I've said as much in this thread: I'd have been fine if a small group followed him to make sure things went down properly.

15 - 30 people on bikes, that are all clearly one group...not a chance in hell is that okay.

And your last paragraph is crap and you know it. Nobody here is even remotely implying such a thing, and if you think that's the case, then you're neither reading closely enough nor trying to understand what others are saying.

I think everyone here would agree that the only the only point it would have been okay for a trigger to be pulled was when the guy bashed the window in, MAYBE when they tried to open his door in the middle of the freeway.

[Midtowner]

In both of these cases, I *guess* the person surrounded would have been legally justified in pulling a gun and shooting folks. Thank god not everyone thinks that way.

So you think you'd have the right to use deadly force to accomplish the felony of leaving the scene of an accident?

[jerrywall]

So you think you'd have the right to use deadly force to accomplish the felony of leaving the scene of an accident?

I said I *guess*, not that I agree. And yeah, if you can prove you had a reasonable fear of your life and safely, you could make that legal argument.

[ctchandler]

Midtowner,
Do you really believe running to save your family from a fairly obvious threat on their (and your) life is a leaving the scene of an accident and a "felony"? I'm afraid I can't agree and the police don't agree either. The driver had every right to try and escape the animals that were harassing him.
C. T.

So you think you'd have the right to use deadly force to accomplish the felony of leaving the scene of an accident?

[jerrywall]

And your last paragraph is crap and you know it. Nobody here is even remotely implying such a thing, and if you think that's the case, then you're neither reading closely enough nor trying to understand what others are saying.

I think everyone here would agree that the only the only point it would have been okay for a trigger to be pulled was when the guy bashed the window in, MAYBE when they tried to open his door in the middle of the freeway.

Really? Quotes on the first page of this thread alone...

"Too bad the driver didn't have a gun and couldn't have simply shot anyone posing an immediate threat

if the the SUV driver thought he family was threatened or actually were being threatened...then you do what you must to protect them and get away. If that means mowing down a bunch of bikers coming after you, so be it.

These bikers are lucky I was not in the Range Rover, I will say that much, and I'm not just trying to act like some badass on the internet.

I would like to seem them come here in Oklahoma and try and pull something like that and see what happens.

If it had been me once the assault began I would have mowed down as many of them as I could and if that did not dissuade the others and the assault continued a firearm would have put as many as I had bullets down.

Perhaps they should have broken out the snowplows early...would have made it a bit easier IMO. :-X"

[bluedogok]

I'd like to toss in a recommendation for the Triumph Modern Classics line (Classics | Triumph Motorcycles). The Bonneville and Thruxton are considered excellent starter bikes with tremendous reliability. The Bonneville is comparable to the previously-mentioned HD Sportster (in fact HD originally introduced the Sportster to compete with the old Bonneville, which was dominating the segment in the states at the time of the Sportster's introduction).

The Bonneville & Thruxton (basically a factory cafe racer version of the Bonnie) are good as starters because they are easy to ride but aren't as limiting as some others. They handle simply (though still fun/rewarding to ride hard), and while at 865cc and 67bhp they are easily powerful enough for highway riding they aren't so powerful (read many/most sport bikes) that you feel stifled and frustrated in stoplight-to-stoplight city riding (should be a consideration if you plan to ride mostly in town). They both offer very comfortable riding positions (should be among your top considerations; get a bike that physically fits your desired riding style).

If buying new, I would recommend against buying something in the 250 range, as you will quickly get confidence on a good motorcycle and just as quickly become frustrated by the lack of performance in a drastically-undersized bike. No need to switch bikes in a few months.

Back to Triumph: I also really appreciate the lack of pretense associated with riding one. There are good bikers of all types, but for some of the mainstream lines it becomes more of a poseur costume party than about the riding itself. Not much of that with this line. It's just a fun bike to ride, and turns plenty of heads, though it is also bonafide grandpa bait. Lots of old fellas stopping you to ask you what year it is and tell you about the one they supposedly owned back in '68.

Triumph also has a bunch of great modern rides in the sport/street, cruiser, touring and dual-sport areas, if any of those float your boat. Go read some reviews on-line. They are a darling of motorcycle magazines. Unfortunately you'll presently have to go out of state to get a new one, but it's easy (I did), and good local service is available.

Don't buy something just because "that's what everyone else rides". Motorcycles at their very essence are about individualism. Get the bike that is right for you, take your time to figure out what that is, and listen to your inner voice, not just recommendations from others (me included). And for goodness' sake, take an MSF class (the one at OSU-OKC is excellent) and get your endorsement BEFORE you buy, and never act like the squid hooligans in that video.

I had a 2000 Triumph Sprint before my current Concours 14, the Triumphs are great bikes. If the new Trophy was out when I bought the C14 I would have the Trophy instead. When it comes time for wife to get a larger bike, the Bonneville will probably be the choice (or a Moto Guzzi Breva 750/800). I sometimes wish I had a Bonnie as well, just something smaller to ride around town.

The bikers should have got his license plate and called 911, not go after a man and his family. I've had several close calls on the bike and felt like going after the person but commom sense took over.

They wouldn't because they were involved in a criminal act. They were stunters looking to block the highway so they could do their stupid acts. The Range Rover driver evidently entered the highway on a ramp they hadn't blocked yet but they did have the highway behind the ramp blocked. I saw one report that stated 15 people arrested, 55 bikes impounded/sized, 68 tickets at the Times Square destination (not people in this gang) that is where this group was headed. Most of the bikes were reported to have license plates not registered with that particular vehicle. This group was nothing more than thugs on bikes, those that were just there for the ride probably broke off from the group as things escalated.

The injured rider was from Massachusetts and had no license, not a drivers license or M endorsement, this quote was from The Boston Globe today.

Though Mieses is a Massachusetts resident, he has never had a valid Massachusetts driver’s license for a passenger vehicle and has never applied for a motorcycle license, the Registry of Motor Vehicles said.

Registry records show that Mieses applied for a learner’s permit in 1999 and 2000, but that he never obtained a full license because he failed to pay fines imposed after he was ticketed for speeding in Lawrence in 1999. His last contact with the Registry was in 2001, when he obtained an identification card, registry records show.

Since 1999, he has been ticketed by police 16 times, in Lawrence, Methuen, Roxbury, Andover, and New Hampshire, according to registry records.

In June, the Registry notified the National Driver Register that Mieses was a habitual traffic offender whose right to drive in Massachusetts was revoked until 2017, records show.

This blocking of the highway for stunters to do their stupid stuff happens elsewhere, I have heard of many cases in KC and Dallas, one chase on the Dallas North Tollway between these idiots and a car that dared get in their way in which a rider died. There was a couple that died on I-45 when a group of riders were going the wrong way on 45 and caused accidents. Stupidity can cause death, stupidity in groups can cause mayhem.

I definitely know that some car drivers can be immature jerks as well but these type of groups are just the thug personified.

[Urbanized]

PluPan, here is a nice and thorough comparison from earlier this year of the Iron 883 version of the Sportster, the great-looking Moto Guzzi V7 Stone, and a Bonneville with an awful, old-man paint job (fortunately they don't all look like that):

Harley-Davidson Sportster 883 Iron vs. Moto Guzzi V7 Stone vs. Triumph Bonneville - Motorcyclist Magazine

[MWCGuy]

That driver clearly showed more restraint than I would have. I am civil person who follows the law and applies common sense in everything I do. However, if you put my family in harms way I am finding a way to get out of it. I would have been moving all over the road. Turned around and went the other direction, would have jumped back on at the off ramp.

This situation here is why you should always be aware of your surroundings and have a game plan on what to do when danger comes knocking. If you have a plan, you will always have your wits about you so you don't over react and do something that you will regret later while staring at your fellow inmates in a 4x8 cell. Yes, you do have a right to defend yourself but, you have to show some that you had no other option when you take extreme measures. This driver was clearly in one of those situations. I hope they prosecute as many riders in that group as possible. They should have followed the rules of the road, obtained a tag number or followed at a safe distance until police arrived. I am positive the driver of the SUV would have stopped when police arrived.

This situation right here is one of the many reasons I am glad I live in Oklahoma. Police would have been on scene quickly just simply because every driver on the road would have been blowing up the lines at 911. Not to mention other drivers would have been getting out of there vehicles to stop the attack on the Ranger Roger.

[BBatesokc]

Midtowner,
Do you really believe running to save your family from a fairly obvious threat on their (and your) life is a leaving the scene of an accident and a "felony"? I'm afraid I can't agree and the police don't agree either. The driver had every right to try and escape the animals that were harassing him.
C. T.

You're not understanding what Midtowner wrote. He was referring to the examples JerryWall posted - those examples used scenarios where a person tried to flee after they had just committed an unprovoked accident. Completely different from the SUV vs. Crotch Rockets.

[WilliamTell]

Jerry as a former cruiser rider myself I actaully agree with you I've almost been killed by drivers who acted like they had no responsibility for my safety.


I've also been in a hit and run in my truck where the other person took off and left me dealing with the police and 6 weeks worth of shop repairs.

I don't know what happened before the video started, but you don't hit people while on the road and you don't flee the seen of an accident.

[Just the facts]

I don't know what happened before the video started, but you don't hit people while on the road and you don't flee the seen of an accident.

You do when you think the people standing around are going to kill you. Just Google how many people are beaten to death after a minor traffic accident. My wife and a friend of hers were involved in a minor crash where they were hit by a drunk driver. While waiting for police the drunk got violent and my wife and her friend had to get in the car and lock the doors to keep from being assaulted. The police showed up before things could escalate with my wife but he was charged with assaulting a police officer. If he is going to assault a police officer what would he have done to my wife and her friend (who was another woman BTW).

Believe it or not - some people aren't happy when they get in a crash. I was sitting at a red light with my kids in the car and someone rear ended the pickup next to me. The driver of the pickup got out yelling obscenities at the person who hit him - who we didn't even know had been injured or not. I got out of the car and had to tell the guy it was just metal, plastic and rubber so there was no need to get upset about it. After we sat there waiting for police for a few minutes he walked over and thanked me for calming him down. Imagine if I hadn't been there but 4 or 5 of his 'buddies' had been. The driver of the car could be dead - who happened to be in the car with his wife. She also walked over and thanked me.

[Midtowner]

Midtowner,
Do you really believe running to save your family from a fairly obvious threat on their (and your) life is a leaving the scene of an accident and a "felony"? I'm afraid I can't agree and the police don't agree either. The driver had every right to try and escape the animals that were harassing him.
C. T.

That wasn't the given hypo. This was:

I was involved in an (almost) hit and run a couple of years ago. A guy ran a red light, and plowed into my car (with my wife and kids in it) and then backed up and attempted to take off from the scene. Luckily, a few of the other cars moved and blocked him in (including a large pick-up truck that the guy plowed into). Probably not the smart thing to do, and the police would rather you NEVER take the law into your own hands. However, I'm happy they did it.

2 weeks ago my friend purchased a brand new street king. On the day he tagged it he was parked at a bar with a bunch of friends when another bike came out and dropped his bike onto my friends' bike. The guy hopped on his bike and tried to take off, and all of the other bikers surrounded him and kept him from leaving. They didn't do anything to him; the only goal was to get his insurance information.

Yes, that would have been fleeing the scene and it using a firearm in the commission of a felony and possibly a homicide charge.

[ctchandler]

Oops, sorry Midtowner, and thanks BBatesokc.
C. T.

You're not understanding what Midtowner wrote. He was referring to the examples JerryWall posted - those examples used scenarios where a person tried to flee after they had just committed an unprovoked accident. Completely different from the SUV vs. Crotch Rockets.

[ctchandler]

Midtowner,
I understand it better now. Too much for my feeble brain to comprehend last night.
C. T.