OKC Light Rail System?

[ou48A]

Local commuter rail would depend on cooperation of railways » Local News » The Edmond Sun

Good information. Thanks for posting.

[Plutonic Panda]

Glad to see The Edmond Sun taking interest in this. Next steps on tap for Norman-Edmond rail » Local News » The Edmond Sun

[Plutonic Panda]

"EDMOND — Community leaders formed a north corridor stakeholders work group meeting Monday to provide local input for the CentralOK!go Study. This study is a collaborative effort of the Regional Transit Dialogue Steering Committee.

The RTD steering committee oversees the $1.25 million “Commuter Rail Corridor Analysis” conducted by URS Corporation for the Association of Central Oklahoma Governments. RTD is specifically looking at commuter rail as the most likely option for the metro and not light rail, the committee pointed out in January.

RTD has discussed three rail corridors that could link to the $120 million modern street car system being constructed with an intermodal hub in downtown Oklahoma City. RTD calls for the hub to link Edmond, Norman, Midwest City and Tinker Air Force Base." - See more at: Commuter rail study on track » Local News » The Edmond Sun

[catch22]

From the constant stream of news reports from Edmond, they are probably the most active, at least appearing on the surface, of any of the communities in getting this going.

[venture]

So I was bored and tossed this together. I agree that commuter rail is probably going to be the best option initially, and then back fill light rail in the metro areas. The map I put together uses existing lines on everything, but upgrades and double tracking will likely be needed due to increased traffic on some of them.

Red Line: Downtown > S OKC / Crossroads > Moore > Norman / OU > Noble
Pauls Valley Extension (Pink): Noble > Purcell > Wayne > Paoli > Pauls Valley
Orange Line: Downtown > N OKC / 63rd St > Edmond > Guthrie
Yellow Line: Downtown > W OKC / State Fair > W OKC / Rockwell > Yukon > El Reno
Green Line: Downtown > SW OKC / WRWA > Mustang
Lawton Extension: Mustang > Tuttle > Chickasha > Cyril > Fletcher > Elgin > Fort Sill > Central Lawton > Lawton / Cameron Univ
(Light) Blue Line: Downtown > Central Midwest City / Tinker
Shawnee Extension: Downtown > N Midwest City > Choctaw > Harrah > McLoud > Shawnee

The biggest obstacles right now with the current rail lines are based on where they are coming from. The Yellow line is going to need to swing through the area west of the southern canal area and have a new elevated portion built to go over the new boulevard. The two blue lines are going to need a new elevated area over I-40 to join up with the existing tracks coming into downtown.

Of course we would need station built at many of the stops, but just to get it up and going they can be simple Park and Ride centers. The line to Lawton isn't one I really like. It weaves a lot so the speed for the trains is probably going to be pretty limited in spots. I would probably also clear out at few of the stops between Chickasha and Fort Sill, but figured I would initially toss them in there.

Here is the link to the map if you want to zoom in: https://www.google.com/maps/ms?msid=...26825,1.783905

[warreng88]

There were talks in the past about building a light rail from OKC to Tulsa. Would that be completely new construction or would it utilize existing lines?

[venture]

There were talks in the past about building a light rail from OKC to Tulsa. Would that be completely new construction or would it utilize existing lines?

Light rail wouldn't work. A commuter rail option would be better positioned or even just a standard Amtrak level product. Remember, Light Rail is your typical street car / subway system.

[CaptDave]

I don't know about light rail between OKC and Tulsa, but the Eastern Flyer Task Force was working on establishing conventional passenger rail service using the state owned line that is leased to WATCO/Stillwater Central RR. The primary issue is the last 5-10 miles from Sapulpa to downtown Tulsa - the state owned line ends and some sort of trackage rights arrangement would have to be made with BNSF to get across the Arkansas River and into Tulsa Union station.

The service would be similar to the North Carolina line between Charlotte and Raleigh or Amtrak California's Surfliner. Conventional rail equipment running at relatively frequent intervals. Amtrak California uses one locomotive and a cab car with remote controls at the other end so the entire does not have to turn around to reverse direction. The TRE between Dallas and Fort Worth is another example of a similar service using this type of equipment.



This is why the two bills in the state legislature are so important - one will prevent ODOT from selling the line without any oversight (they are trying to sell it to BNSF now) and gives the current lessee right of first refusal. This is important because WATCO has made significant investment in upgrading the line and is generally agreeable to passenger traffic regardless of operator whereas BNSF will only permit Amtrak to operate on their rights of way. The other bill creates a stand alone State Railway Commission to handle all rail transport and infrastructure issues. ODOT is a highways only organization whether people want to believe it or not and getting the rail branch away from ODOT will greatly increase the chance we will see real progress made on rebuilding and restoring passenger rail transport in Oklahoma.

[venture]

I have a feeling BNSF is also posturing to be in position to be the one operating the commuter rail on as many lines as possible.

[CaptDave]

I have a feeling BNSF is also posturing to be in position to be the one operating the commuter rail on as many lines as possible.

If they would commit to running an operation similar to Chicago's Metra, that would be pretty good.

[Just the facts]

I suspect most regional trains connecting Oklahoma cities will initially be on diesel multi-units (DMU). Lawton to OKC might even just be a single car DMU.

[venture]

If they would commit to running an operation similar to Chicago's Metra, that would be pretty good.

Yeah. The experience with running portion of the Metra I think is valuable to get the service launched sooner rather than later.

I suspect most regional trains connecting Oklahoma cities will initially be on diesel multi-units (DMU). Lawton to OKC might even just be a single car DMU.

I think it'll come down to acquisition costs and also the requirements set by the FRA to permit them on our freight lines. I think the DMU option though as it'll probably be much more efficient than the Metra-style commuter rail since ridership numbers won't be all that great here. it would also allow for quicker trip times since they should be able to get up to speed a bit easier.

Overall I just hope this something they don't try to punt 10-15 years down the road.

[CaptDave]

I suspect most regional trains connecting Oklahoma cities will initially be on diesel multi-units (DMU). Lawton to OKC might even just be a single car DMU.

People who are interested in this should take a look at the Denton TX A-Train. It started out using "vintage" rail diesel cars leased from TRE while waiting for delivery of their new Stadler DMU's. These DMU's are pretty slick and would work very well for most of a state regional network.






These are the RDC's TRE used and then leased to Denton:

[CaptDave]

Yeah. The experience with running portion of the Metra I think is valuable to get the service launched sooner rather than later.

I think it'll come down to acquisition costs and also the requirements set by the FRA to permit them on our freight lines. I think the DMU option though as it'll probably be much more efficient than the Metra-style commuter rail since ridership numbers won't be all that great here. it would also allow for quicker trip times since they should be able to get up to speed a bit easier.

FRA approved the Stadler DMU's to run on line with freight traffic. Railroad Passenger Rail Article - FRA issues alternative-design vehicle waiver to Denton County Transportation Authority. Information For Rail Career Professionals From Progressive Railroading Magazine

[CaptDave]

Overall I just hope this something they don't try to punt 10-15 years down the road.

That is ODOT's primary tactic - study and delay. It has worked every time so far. This is one of the primary reasons the Oklahoma Rail Commission bill needs to be approved ASAP. But guess who Gov Fallin is listening to for advice.......letters and phone calls to legislators and the governor's office are needed.

People are working on restoring passenger rail service now:

http://www.ktok.com/media/podcast-kt...ow-2-23461377/

[BDP]

To build a light rail system between Edmond, Oklahoma City and Norman would cost $2 billion to $3 billion, whereas a commuter rail system would cost only $200-300 million, according to the RTD. - See more at: Commuter rail study on track » Local News » The Edmond Sun

We spent about $200 million just to widen I-35 between Moore and Norman, ALONE.

[Kokopelli]

new article Perryman train study down, not out.

Perryman train study down, not out » Local News » Chickashanews.com

[ljbab728]

Our local paper is certainly doing no favors to this proposal.

Oklahoma lawmaker's dream of high-speed rail is left at the station | News OK

Perryman said it would be irresponsible not to study this issue, given the potential benefits to citizens and the state. On the contrary, Shannon did the responsible thing by rejecting this bad idea.

[OKVision4U]

For those who are interested, ACOG is videoing the RTD II meetings and those are being posted to ACOG's YouTube sight. You can view the first two meetings in their entirety, including the OnTrac rail transit presentation from Wednesday, at:

ACOG RTD II Meeting Videos

There are several video segments that cover the full meeting.

Why is the budget for Light Rail in Orlando @ $20 mil p/mile ? ...the ACOG numbers are so exaggerated?

[SouthsideSooner]

Why is the budget for Light Rail in Orlando @ $20 mil p/mile ? ...the ACOG numbers are so exaggerated?

The Orlando trains will be commuter rail, not light rail...similar to whats currently being discussed here from Edmond to Norman.

Florida voters rejected a light rail system from Orlando to Tampa even though the Feds were putting up 2.4 billion dollars towards the cost.

[OKVision4U]

Here is the link for the bugdet for LIGTH RAIL ( this is their regional transit system ; MAGLEV Technology ).

$800M maglev passenger rail back on track? - Orlando Business Journal

The budget they have is aprox. $20 Mil p/mile.

[OKVision4U]

The Orlando trains will be commuter rail, not light rail...similar to whats currently being discussed here from Edmond to Norman.

Florida voters rejected a light rail system from Orlando to Tampa even though the Feds were putting up 2.4 billion dollars towards the cost.

Not so fast my friend... This is not accurate.

Orlando is putting the LIGHT RAIL ( not the large Diesel Engine Commuter Rail ...they call this "commuter rail", but think of it as a Heavy Amtrak Trains).

Houston has the LIGHT RAIL. ....I used it a few weeks ago to get to a convention. A very nice clean system.

[Just the facts]

Orlando is putting in Commuter Rail. It is called SunRail.

SunRail - A Better Way To Go

The train from Tampa to Orlando was going to be High Speed Rail (the first true HSR system in the US), but the State was going to be on the hook for cost over-runs, maintenance, and operating expenses. Those were expected to be several times higher than the cost of construction and with no mode of travel at both ends the people riding it wouldn't have any way to get around.

On edit - A private company was looking to put 'slow maglev' from the Orange County Convention Center to the airport but I think that plan is dead now. It had a top speed of 50 mph.

New 'maglev' train may come to Orlando International Airport - FOX 35 News Orlando

[OKVision4U]

Light rail wouldn't work. A commuter rail option would be better positioned or even just a standard Amtrak level product. Remember, Light Rail is your typical street car / subway system.

Venture 79... People don't use our existing AMTRAK now ! Are the consumers really saying "please give me my AMTRAK train for my commute"....?? No they are not. This is a typical ( half-way ) getting there. So you are telling me that we should do this "twice" ? ...why should we pay for this 2 times? ...an initial investment, then switch to light rail? ....please help me out and shed some light on that phylosophy. I think I remember Gen. Patton said " he did not belive in paying for real estate twice".

[OKVision4U]

Orlando is putting in Commuter Rail. It is called SunRail.

SunRail - A Better Way To Go

The train from Tampa to Orlando was going to be High Speed Rail (the first true HSR system in the US), but the State was going to be on the hook for cost over-runs, maintenance, and operating expenses. Those were expected to be several times higher than the cost of construction and with no mode of travel at both ends the people riding it wouldn't have any way to get around.

On edit - A private company was looking to put 'slow maglev' from the Orange County Convention Center to the airport but I think that plan is dead now. It had a top speed of 50 mph.

New 'maglev' train may come to Orlando International Airport - FOX 35 News Orlando

JTF... the Orlando ( Orlando / Convention Area / Aiport / Disney ) IS MagLev Technology... they will only travel at speed up to 50 mph. (yes, they are faster than that, but that is not what Orlando wants this line to provide in this layout). ...and yes, it is Back In Play for implementation.