Streetcar

[OKVision4U]

I think it comes down to right of way costs and rail line expenses. Monorail beams are expensive to build. However, if the costs are pretty comparable when all factors are taken into considering, it might be an option. It would also make it easier to get the train into the best locations.

While I love monorail systems, I'm just not sure people are going to want to pay for it when the costs are likely going to be $15-50 million per mile.

I don't think we like the "value" of our ODOT dollars now, do we? The existing structure of our metro highways, is getting worse, not better. Texas is spending Billions on Loop 635 ( from I-35 - H 75 , aprox. 8 miles.) This is what happens when you wait too long to fix the issues. We can begin to build this system ( today ) and transition our ODOT dollars to something a little more High Value. This is not an "ALL or Nothing" issue. This is very inclusive of our existing infrastructure.

Guys, let's think Big here. If we get ahead of this and build it, do you think other ( Fortune 500 compaines ) will look to us a a Perfect Option for their next move? Yes, they will. As continue to grow ( we will need this anyway). So, the 15-20 M / Mil is a very SOUND INVESTMENT. Giving ODOT more money for highways, ...is not.

Please, do not confuse COST w/ Price. ...the cost of Not having it? ...the cost of losing more compaines? ...the highway fatalities? .... that is a cost.

[soonerguru]

You really should run for public office.

Where can I sign up to volunteer!

[OKVision4U]

All the same problems - just faster.

Show me a system that is of ZERO issues? ....Example please?

[Just the facts]

The Crosstown rebuild was what, about $360 million (from the numbers I can find) for 4.5 miles? Or $80 million per mile.

Final cost on the Crosstown was $680 million.

[Just the facts]

Show me a system that is of ZERO issues? ....Example please?

Every system has issues.

[OKVision4U]

How are you going to pay for it? A maglev system proposed for Baltimore and Washington was priced at $5.1 billion for 39 miles. San Diego's proposed maglev is around $10 billion for 100 miles. Granted when you put it in perspective...it isn't that bad. The Crosstown rebuild was what, about $360 million (from the numbers I can find) for 4.5 miles? Or $80 million per mile. In comparison your Balt/Wash system is $130 million a mile or $100 million a mile in San Diego. However the problem is going to come from old thinkers who love their cars who will trumpet the big overall project number, while ignore the costs for projects like the Crosstown, 235/44...$200 million, 35/240...$50 million, and so on that all add up to some staggering amounts for relatively short lengths of infrastructure.

We are paying NOW. The standard OKLAHOMA answer / response is to "Make a Toll Road"...that's jobs, right? ...Turnpike Authority.

Example: Year 2014 and the I-235/I-44 Interchange @ $200 Million, out of Who's Budget? ....ODOT. If we wait to build it 20 years from now, then what will be the price tag then? .... $350 Million?

So, if we begin to build this MAGLEV today, the cost will be significantly less, than if we wait until 2035. That is just dollars-on-dollars. Guess what, ODOT will keep telling us "they" don't have the money in the budget. ??? Why is that?

Also, this is the same reason / purpose that we started (MAPS) in the first place. The people had to go "outside" the existing system ( City Gov. / ODOT's ) of the world, just to make sure that this happens. Dedicate the dollars to be spent exactly how we want them to.

We can do this w/ a regional MAGLEV system that places all of the OKC metro into a growth mode of success. ( I am not against the Downtown Boom. I love it.) Let's lead on this.

[OKVision4U]

Every system has issues.

You made my point. I just want the system w/ the "less fleas". The MAGLEV is clean. It is a repeatable system. It gives us long-term flexiblitly.

[LakeEffect]

We are paying NOW. The standard OKLAHOMA answer / response is to "Make a Toll Road"...that's jobs, right? ...Turnpike Authority.

Example: Year 2014 and the I-235/I-44 Interchange @ $200 Million, out of Who's Budget? ....ODOT. If we wait to build it 20 years from now, then what will be the price tag then? .... $350 Million?

So, if we begin to build this MAGLEV today, the cost will be significantly less, than if we wait until 2035. That is just dollars-on-dollars. Guess what, ODOT will keep telling us "they" don't have the money in the budget. ??? Why is that?

Also, this is the same reason / purpose that we started (MAPS) in the first place. The people had to go "outside" the existing system ( City Gov. / ODOT's ) of the world, just to make sure that this happens. Dedicate the dollars to be spent exactly how we want them to.

We can do this w/ a regional MAGLEV system that places all of the OKC metro into a growth mode of success. ( I am not against the Downtown Boom. I love it.) Let's lead on this.

I'm all for building rail-based transportation NOW, not in the future. But MAGLEV is unnecessarily expensive for local transportation and access.

[OKVision4U]

I'm all for building rail-based transportation NOW, not in the future. But MAGLEV is unnecessarily expensive for local transportation and access.

My car is expensive now, ...new tires @ $100 each. Gas is expensive now. Insurance on my car, to travel down the highway w/ all the other poor drivers, is expensive. lol.

The price of a ticket, can be purchaced in a yearly pass. We can set the price very low at the beginning. ( we won't give it to the Turnpike Authority.)

[Just the facts]

Why make things more complicated than they need to be?

[venture]

Final cost on the Crosstown was $680 million.

That's what I thought, but I was also thinking that price tag included the boulevard as well which shouldn't be used in this example.

[OKVision4U]

[QUOTE=Just the facts;690359]Why make things more complicated than they need to be?[/QUOTE

You mean individually or collectively?

Let's show the world, that if the dumb Okie's can figure it out, then it must be easy. lol.

[venture]

My car is expensive now, ...new tires @ $100 each. Gas is expensive now. Insurance on my car, to travel down the highway w/ all the other poor drivers, is expensive. lol.

The price of a ticket, can be purchaced in a yearly pass. We can set the price very low at the beginning. ( we won't give it to the Turnpike Authority.)

We are already fighting and uphill battle with narrow-minded pavement lovers. We also don't know the impacts of rail on the area, though I think it would be better than some expect. I just don't see how we can justify the MAGLEV costs right now. We need to get rail established and the network built now before going for the diamond standard system.

Basic Commuter Rail is going to run $1-25 million per mile since we have a lot of existing track that can be used. If we get the network built out as fast as we can (since a full network is going to have the maximum impact and efficiency) and we see the Norman-OKC-Edmond line is bursting to the seems and a revenue monster, then we can talk about maglev.

[OKVision4U]

We are already fighting and uphill battle with narrow-minded pavement lovers. We also don't know the impacts of rail on the area, though I think it would be better than some expect. I just don't see how we can justify the MAGLEV costs right now. We need to get rail established and the network built now before going for the diamond standard system.

Basic Commuter Rail is going to run $1-25 million per mile since we have a lot of existing track that can be used. If we get the network built out as fast as we can (since a full network is going to have the maximum impact and efficiency) and we see the Norman-OKC-Edmond line is bursting to the seems and a revenue monster, then we can talk about maglev.

One question, do you use a standard DVD or Blu Ray? ...the DVD is cheaper?

They use the existing track in the RUST Belt / NE / Chicago , but it is not their preference. It is the RIGHT Technology for the Right time. Impacts of the rail area? ...Environmental Impact is ZERO.

Point: Don't build it twice. They makes (zero dollar sense). Why do you think the Northeast is using the MAGLEV technology now?



I'll give it a shot .... If we spend 1-3 M

[OKVision4U]

Orlando is a city that is a modern city that is not "stuck" in the early 1900's. OKC is the same. Let's build it right once. Its not a diamond cost, just a diamond in value.


$800M maglev passenger rail back on track? - Orlando Business Journal

[OKCisOK4me]

OKVision4U, run for an elected office and I'll back you, but only after you tell me how you're going to pay for it without paying for a bunch of additional interest because you want to build the whole thing out up front. When you have a feasible solution, get back to me on the MAGLEV.

I admire your fire but the regional transportation plan that is in the works right now is perfect for OKC. We don't need to prove anything to the world.

[Larry OKC]

...or we could just go with the streetcar that was just approved and commuter rail that is under development now. As for monorail, there a lots problems with a monorail system from the physical/psychological barrier they create, to their lack of scalability, to their Le Corbusier style of separating people on multiple planes, to their slow speed and rough ride. Many cities have tried monorails (Seattle, Jacksonville, Detroit, Miami); they work great at Disney World where everyone boards at the same location and gets off at the same destination, but they don't work well as mass transit system where the riders get on and off at different locations. I have never ridden the Las Vegas monorail but at $5 per ride I am surprised anyone rides it.

I rode the Vegas monorail every trip after it opened as it took me from the MGM (Coke and M&M Worlds are located in front) directly to Star Trek: The Experience at the Hilton )off Strip). Bought the 24 or 48 hr pass and could get on/off as many times as you wanted (think it was $10 or $15 with coupon), think they had a other options for locals. IIRC, the Monorail was primarily funded by the Casinos. There was talk about expanding it to the airport but don't know if that stalled or not. Ridership seemed to be sparse I think mainly due to the fact that most of the stops were located on the backside of the Strip casino properties, which means a lot of walking the length of the property to get on/off. What I loved about the Hilton stop was it dropped you off at the entrance to Star trek and you didn't have to walk the Hilton Casino property. But I would ride it again if it is where I am at and going to where I want to be. The trip was quick, relatively inexpensive, clean and safe and smooth ride (much smoother than the new I-40)

[OKVision4U]

OKVision4U, run for an elected office and I'll back you, but only after you tell me how you're going to pay for it without paying for a bunch of additional interest because you want to build the whole thing out up front. When you have a feasible solution, get back to me on the MAGLEV.

I admire your fire but the regional transportation plan that is in the works right now is perfect for OKC. We don't need to prove anything to the world.

"The Maglev rail system would be privately funded by American Maglev President Tony Morris and Spanish firm Groupo ACS, which specializes in infrastructure construction projects worldwide."

Ok, now that I have found the source for funding, let's get started.

...I don't want to run for anything. But thanks for the vote of confidence.

[Larry OKC]

That's what I thought, but I was also thinking that price tag included the boulevard as well which shouldn't be used in this example.

Originally, the Boulevard was included in the Crosstown relocation project costs, but due to ever increasing costs, they separated the Boulevard out. The $680 million JTF mention is just for the Crosstown (if not mistaken). Add in whatever the Boulevard ends up costing to that amount to figure out the true cost. Not sure how all of that works into what you are talking about...

[OKVision4U]

It is a great resource. You are correct, if it was "on the front side" of the strip, there would be even more traffic.

It also drops you off at the convention front too. ...

[LakeEffect]

How did this thread get hijacked by a MAGLEV Monorail enthusiast?

[hoya]

Right now there's no political support for a high speed maglev system in OKC. There's just not. Our cool little streetcar drew lots of opposition, and it had a lot of voter support. Proposing maglev trains as a solution to transit problems in OKC is like suggesting legalizing marijuana as a method of reducing jail costs. You might be right, but it's just not gonna pass right now.

What we need to do first is get the streetcar running and have a plan in place for commuter rail. Once people get a taste of the streetcar, and as the downtown/Bricktown area becomes more dense, I think you'll get more support for initializing commuter rail. People will like the idea of taking the train to a Thunder game, riding the streetcar up to Midtown for a few drinks, and then taking the train back to Edmond so they don't have to worry about parking. But we have to make sure step 1 (streetcar) works first.

This is a car-centric city, and it's going to take time to change the prevailing attitude of the city. This city won't fund maglev trains.

[OKVision4U]

If we spent $350 M in the originall MAPS, ...and that has since become a total investment of $5 Billion in OKC, then why would we be affraid of this investment?

MAGLEV Line for OKC Metro ...

Edmond - OKC - Norman. 40 miles @ $800 million.

MAGLEV Line for El Reno - Yukon - OKC - MWC - Choctaw. 40 Miles @ $800 million.

This is the next logical step. I would vote for this as a larger MAPS (type) initiative.

...and if we get the Oakland Raiders NFL Team, then we will need this anyway.

[OKVision4U]

How did this thread get hijacked by a MAGLEV Monorail enthusiast?

...i'm guess'n the subject title. ...let's see modern streetcar & commuter transit... YEP, it's the correct one.

[Urban Pioneer]

I love monorails.

But seriously, maybe a separate thread specifically on it? We had such a great political (and deserved) bashing going on. lol And it was actually regarding the streetcar!