Streetcar

[Urban Pioneer]

We are so EXCITED!

A preview of OKC's Santa Fe Station - YouTube

Thanks SW Aviator and Catch 22.

[betts]

I can't wait to see the tunnel opened up. It will be a great new entrance in Bricktown.

[UnFrSaKn]

So What Happens Next at Santa Fe Depot? | News OK

[warreng88]

Since the only thing running out of the Santa Fe station right now is the Amtrak to Ft Worth, do you all think the first thing to be built new will be covered areas for trains? Obviously an updating of the interior and exterior will probably be first.

[Urban Pioneer]

I thonk the streetscape, building remodeling/renovation, tunnel to Bricktown, and a well designed pedestrian connection to streetcar stops are first priority.

[warreng88]

I thonk the streetscape, building remodeling/renovation, tunnel to Bricktown, and a well designed pedestrian connection to streetcar stops are first priority.

Obviously part of the streetscape will be covered with the $750,000 grant. How much is it expecting to cost total?

[Hutch]

Here's the master plan, architectural rendering and cost breakdown of Phase 1 and 2 from the hub study:







Note that the costs include approximately $19 million for a parking garage facility and intercity bus terminal to be located at some point in the future on the current parking lot west of the U-Haul building. In addition, several million dollars are allocated for construction of the new Transit Hall adjoining the existing depot building. Those facilities and improvements are not critical in the near term. The discussions need to be directed at how to best apply the $23.9 million remaining after the $4.5 million expenditure for the acquisition of the property for those other items identified as part Phase 1 and 2 development.

[OKCisOK4me]

As long as the streetcars aren't painted in the gawdy scheme of our metro buses, I'm cool...

[warreng88]

I assume the only streetscapes that will be done will be EK Gaylord from Sheridan to Reno directly in front of the station. I would also assume the parking facility will be built either by COPTA or the city and would either come from those funds or grants related to it. So, the $13.5 million grant will probably go more towards the building renovation and adding on to the north, the BT connection and pedestrian connections to the the streetcar. I am curious how much work needs to be done to get the building up to how we would want it to handle the kind of traffic we are expecting.

[CaptDave]

I think the pedestrian tunnel to Bricktown is critical to distributing passengers from the hub so that will probably be one of the main renovations in the next couple of years. I hope these funds can/will be used to run the streetcar down EK Gaylord and build a stop closer to the station rather than waiting for MAPS3 Phase II.

There are a couple things to be decided that have the potential to provide the cost efficiencies needed so there will not be many compromises in the route. (No tail track in Midtown, adding switches at the the 4th&Robinson intersection,etc) The location of the maintenance / storage facility, the TIGER Grant, the project sequencing for the Santa Fe hub, etc. This week has been one filled with good news for our first step to building the transit system most of us are so excited about.

[Kokopelli]

As long as the streetcars aren't painted in the gawdy scheme of our metro buses, I'm cool...

Looks like the color scheme and name of Metro Transit may be changing in November to Embark.

Oklahoma City's bus agency gets a new name and new image | News OK.

[krisb]

Has there been any thought to an official name or nickname for the streetcar? Kind of like the Metro in DC, Tube/Underground in London, L in Chicago etc.

[Just the facts]

Looks like the color scheme and name of Metro Transit may be changing in November to Embark.

Oklahoma City's bus agency gets a new name and new image | News OK.

They should have gone with GOCART - Greater Oklahoma City Area Rapid Transit. The tag line possibilities are endless (like - Everyone wants a GOCART).

[Kokopelli]

They should have gone with GOCART - Greater Oklahoma City Area Rapid Transit. The tag line possibilities are endless (like - Everyone wants a GOCART).

That would've been way cool!!!

[Just the facts]

Yea, the problem is Metro Transit paid someone to come with a generic name, so my free one that plays on childhood dreams and fun wouldn't have had a chance.

Billboard on I-35 South: Trade in your Chevy for a GOCART. Trains serving Norman every 30 minutes.
Billboard on I-35 North: BMWs are cool - GOCARTS are cooler. Trains serving Edmond every 30 minutes.
Bumper sticker/license plate frame: My other car is a GOCART

[CaptDave]

Unfortunately COTPA has decided to rebrand their transit operations as "Embark". I forget how much they paid those consultants but it was too much.

[Just the facts]

How could a person not want to ride something called 'Embark'? There is fun, coolness, and excitement just oozing from the name. It makes me want to go ride a bus right now. [/sarc]

On the hand - it is 11:34 PM on a Sunday night here in Jax and I would seriously go ride a go cart right now if someone offered me a ride.

[catch22]

Knowing OKC's population's relative virgin-ness toward rail.. It will probably be called by the locals the train. Or the monorail. Or something.

[jedicurt]

i always wanted Metro of Oklahoma Rapid Transit. I would totally support the MORT!

[warreng88]

i always wanted Metro of Oklahoma Rapid Transit. I would totally support the MORT!

METROKC...

Oklahoma City Transport Of People Until Stopped or OCTOPUS...

[Urban Pioneer]

The irony is that all this could become irrelevant if COTPA isn't morphed into the RTA role.

[Larry OKC]

Larry, can you give it a rest??? I mean geez. The park is one block away. That is a connection. People do walk in and to parks right?

Union Station is irrelevant as a transit facility other than the House of COTPA.

You said earlier it was a connection when it touched the corner of the Park. Now that it is a block away, it is still a connection? How many blocks away before it isn't a connection any more? Yes folks walk to and in parks, but what is your point? They also walk to other places as well. Following your line of thinking, we don't really need any sort of transportation at all...scrap the Streetcar, buses and everything else...Union Station is only irrelevant becuase City leadership and the Subcommittee & Consultants have chosen to make it irrelevant.

It is a no-brainer that the Streetcar should connect as many of the MAPS 3 projects together as possible. Even betts saw the logic in it early on. Unlike some other the projects that are outside of the geographic area, the Park is definitely doable. The best way to repurpose a building that is being saved is to utilize it for the same or related purpose. Can't be a "real" train station anymore, fine, make it Streetcar stop and utilize it for other Park related modes of transportation (bike & boat rentals etc). .. a Park mini-transit hub. Have a transportation themed snack and/or gift shop etc. Why are you working so hard AGAINST the symbiotic nature of the some of the MAPS 3 projects. I just don't get it.

I appreciate all that you and others have done to further the Streetcar and mass-transit overall. But as long as you have been involved in this you seem to fly off the handle at myself and others at some of the slightest criticisms . I would think you would have developed a much thicker skin over time.

So, with the approximately $10 million to purchase it and then $13.5 million to renovate, how far are we from a complete intermodal hub? Another $50 million or so?

According to the info that came out after the vote, the complete intermodal transit hub is expected to cost $127 million…so roughly $100 million more to go! Mostly from other sources…even though the Mayor said they didn't put anything into MAPS 3 that we couldn't pay for ourselves.

Santa Fe depot called a potential site for downtown OKC transit hub | News OK
Santa Fe depot called a potential site for downtown OKC transit hub (Oklahoman 4/21/11)

The MAPS 3 ballot approved by voters in 2009 includes an estimated $10 million for a transit hub to serve a new $120 million streetcar system.

The $10 million cost had risen to $26 million in this article and ultimately $127 million (even though the Mayor said nothing was being put into MAPS 3 that we couldn't pay for ourselves).
Oklahoma Gazette News: Alternate route
Alternate route, Gazette, January 31st, 2012

The MAPS 3 Citizens Advisory Board voted Jan. 26 to recommend the City Council approve purchase of the Santa Fe Train Depot to serve as a convergence for several modes of transportation in the city, including car, rail, bicycle and possibly bus.
The city already set aside $10 million of the $127 million in MAPS 3 streetcar funding to pay for the acquisition and streetcar-related improvements to the station.*

But a setback came in late December, when the city learned its application was denied for $17 million from a federal Transportation Investment Generating Economic Recovery (TIGER) III grant. That money was to constitute the majority of $26 million in funding for the city’s planned intermodal transportation hub.
…
The plan 
The three phases of hub construction were estimated to cost around $127 million, spread between federal and state funding, as well as among several cities participating in the regional transit plan.

The $26 million seems tied to Federal funding (in direct contradiction to the Mayor's statement about not putting anything into MAPS 3 that we couldn't pay for ourselves). I can't find any mention of multiple phases etc until after the vote passed.... This is similar to the Convention Center and its multiple phases (but they did let that slip out before the vote, but was barely mentioned.[/QUOTE]

[BoulderSooner]

Why are you working so hard AGAINST the symbiotic nature of the some of the MAPS 3 projects. I just don't get it.

I appreciate all that you and others have done to further the Streetcar and mass-transit overall. But as long as you have been involved in this you seem to fly off the handle at myself and others at some of the slightest criticisms . I would think you would have developed a much thicker skin over time.


According to the info that came out after the vote, the complete intermodal transit hub is expected to cost $127 million…so roughly $100 million more to go! Mostly from other sources…even though the Mayor said they didn't put anything into MAPS 3 that we couldn't pay for ourselves.



Santa Fe depot called a potential site for downtown OKC transit hub | News OK
Santa Fe depot called a potential site for downtown OKC transit hub (Oklahoman 4/21/11)

The $10 million cost had risen to $26 million in this article and ultimately $127 million

The $26 million seems tied to Federal funding (in direct contradiction to the Mayor's statement about not putting anything into MAPS 3 that we couldn't pay for ourselves). I can't find any mention of multiple phases etc until after the vote passed.... This is similar to the Convention Center and its multiple phases (but they did let that slip out before the vote, but was barely mentioned.

[/QUOTE]

after reading this it is pretty clear that you either choose not remember .. or intentionally make stuff up

[betts]

Larry, why is your thinking so concrete? The $10 million was to be used to purchase the hub, and could also be used for transit. We weren't sure how much money would would have available after purchasing the hub to make improvements. No one was told anything more than that we would have a hub. And we will, for a purchase price of about half the money available. The hub study was designed to look ahead at transit needs as far in the future as 20 years from now. The expanded hub design that was shown as part of the hub design was a plan for what they would like to see in the future, if we get commuter rail, and in the event that we have high speed rail and move the bus station to the hub. Every city plans for what they would like to see for the future. That's what the fixed guideways study was doing in 2005, and the hub study was an extension of that. If you're not planning for the future, you don't have a chance to improve and grow. The voters will ultimately get to decide if they want commuter rail and if they then want to expand the hub. Nothing can be done without the consent of the voters.

The federal money is a bonus, and helps us do things we either couldn't afford to do, or we would have to ask the taxpayers if they wanted them. They were never a given, but these improvements will allow us to do some exciting things that will make the station more than just a place to buy tickets and wait for trains.

[warreng88]

You said earlier it was a connection when it touched the corner of the Park. Now that it is a block away, it is still a connection? How many blocks away before it isn't a connection any more? Yes folks walk to and in parks, but what is your point? They also walk to other places as well. Following your line of thinking, we don't really need any sort of transportation at all...scrap the Streetcar, buses and everything else...Union Station is only irrelevant becuase City leadership and the Subcommittee & Consultants have chosen to make it irrelevant.

I would be willing to say if something is three blocks away or more, a lot of people in OKC will either complain or consider another mode of transportation. I am not talking visitors, I am talking locals. I know there are plenty of people within the urban core (Sid, Betts, Metro, etc) who can walk six blocks or more without a thought but since OKC is currently designed around the automobile, people will complain about not being able to park right in front of the park, play and then drive back to Edmond. The reason Union station is irrelevant is because of its location. If Union Station were six blocks further north, it would probably be the Hub because of all the ties it had to the rail lines. But no one was going to take a commuter rail to Union Station then walk 3/4 of a mile, just to get The Peake not to mention BT being another two blocks east and Devon another two blocks north.

According to the info that came out after the vote, the complete intermodal transit hub is expected to cost $127 million…so roughly $100 million more to go! Mostly from other sources…even though the Mayor said they didn't put anything into MAPS 3 that we couldn't pay for ourselves.

The $26 million seems tied to Federal funding (in direct contradiction to the Mayor's statement about not putting anything into MAPS 3 that we couldn't pay for ourselves). I can't find any mention of multiple phases etc until after the vote passed.... This is similar to the Convention Center and its multiple phases (but they did let that slip out before the vote, but was barely mentioned.

I asked Steve in his chat a few weeks ago and he said, "Um, no. Actually, this pretty much gets close to the end game on this project with funding already in place." I think with the $13.5 million TIGER grant, $4.5 million or so the purchase the SFS, $750,000 for the EKG streetscape, $3.5 million ODOT/ACOG match for SFS that gives us $22.25 million and I know I am leaving some grants/funds out somewhere. I think that will get us to where we want to be right now, but there will have to be more go into it for commuter rail, bus improvements and facility improvements. I don't see more facility improvements happening until 2020 or so when the Cox Center is torn down and redeveloped. I guess they could use the large parking lots in BT and the parking lot south of Reno on the east side, but to go big, we need more space.