Pride of Oklahoma Changes

[PhiAlpha]

OUDaily.com | New Pride of Oklahoma leader invokes reaction

Sounds like we have a band revolt.....could we have a band walk out?

Also from the article:

In the meeting, Boren assured Pride members that any frustrations they felt after their performance Saturday were not matched by their fans, said Blaxton, botany senior. He told them to give Stolarik time to implement the changes he’s made to the performance.

I think it's pretty clear that Boren is somehow invested in this...

[SoonerDave]

Also from the article:


I think it's pretty clear that Boren is somehow invested in this...

The allegation/rumor/urban legend (whatever disclaimer-type words are appropriate) I've read indicate Weitzenhoffer, a regent, allegedly wanted the Pride to be more stylish and Broadway-themed, and allegedly a quid-pro-quo situation was constructed in the form of a donation of some art from Weitzenhoffer's private collection to the University allegedly in exchange for hiring Stolnarik as an allegedly sock-puppet director.

When news that the band changes were coming back in the summer, some loose information to this effect (but not nearly so detailed) was making the rounds, and seemed too ridiculous to believe. Later, I heard some radio discussion about that where someone tossed this information to someone with some Pride/University ties, and the response was to the effect of "uhmmm, well, that actually isn't too far off..."

The OU Daily story is the only concrete journalistic piece that even begins to hint at something truly inappropriate (and that may be too strong a word) about the hire, with Stolnarik not meeting the qualification criteria for the director's job, yet getting it instead of two other candidates who did meet the requirements. Obviously, politically motivated hires are nothing new, but if the allegations about some sort of quid-pro-quo prove true, that could turn into a much bigger problem for those involved than changing the pregame routine. I think there are at least some laws about requirements and state hiring practices that have to be followed, and what seems to be might be next are some FOIA requests from the Daily or other journalistic entity.

If David Boren is truly deluded enough to think the fans like these changes, his judgment may be in question. That the band has possibly been drawn in to some sort of political or personal (?) power struggle is, if true, disturbing, to say the least.

Methinks the fact that 100+ existing Pride members, in effect, staged a revolt tells me that someone, somewhere knows exactly what's going on. I strongly suspect we've not heard the last of it. At least I hope we haven't.

[PhiAlpha]

The allegation/rumor/urban legend (whatever disclaimer-type words are appropriate) I've read indicate Weitzenhoffer, a regent, allegedly wanted the Pride to be more stylish and Broadway-themed, and allegedly a quid-pro-quo situation was constructed in the form of a donation of some art from Weitzenhoffer's private collection to the University allegedly in exchange for hiring Stolnarik as an allegedly sock-puppet director.

When news that the band changes were coming back in the summer, some loose information to this effect (but not nearly so detailed) was making the rounds, and seemed too ridiculous to believe. Later, I heard some radio discussion about that where someone tossed this information to someone with some Pride/University ties, and the response was to the effect of "uhmmm, well, that actually isn't too far off..."

The OU Daily story is the only concrete journalistic piece that even begins to hint at something truly inappropriate (and that may be too strong a word) about the hire, with Stolnarik not meeting the qualification criteria for the director's job, yet getting it instead of two other candidates who did meet the requirements. Obviously, politically motivated hires are nothing new, but if the allegations about some sort of quid-pro-quo prove true, that could turn into a much bigger problem for those involved than changing the pregame routine. I think there are at least some laws about requirements and state hiring practices that have to be followed, and what seems to be might be next are some FOIA requests from the Daily or other journalistic entity.

If David Boren is truly deluded enough to think the fans like these changes, his judgment may be in question. That the band has possibly been drawn in to some sort of political or personal (?) power struggle is, if true, disturbing, to say the least.

Methinks the fact that 100+ existing Pride members, in effect, staged a revolt tells me that someone, somewhere knows exactly what's going on. I strongly suspect we've not heard the last of it. At least I hope we haven't.

It was hard for me to believe at first as well, the proposed conspiracy theory seemed silly at best. However you are correct, the more that comes out about this, the more real it looks. I'm not big on conspiracy theories but something doesn't seem right here. Boren has gone way too far out of his way a few times calling the pregame the best in years after the game and saying that the fans don't notice any difference, when in reality the was opposite true and everyone noticed... I haven't agreed with everything Boren has done at OU (mainly the dry campus policy) but he has been great for the University in nearly every way. Needless to say, if any of this crap is true, I would be pretty disappointed in him.

[PhiAlpha]

From a member of the Pride on the OU Daily website:

The best way to contact Boren and give your opinion is to send a letter. There are people in his office making sure all letters addressed as so will be given to him.

Mail to:
President David Boren.
660 Parrington Oval. Rm 110
Norman, Ok. 73019
ATTN: PRIDE
(very important to put PRIDE).

Also make sure there is a full return address, they won't deliver the letter without it.

[RadicalModerate]

This is all a perfect example of the "If It Ain't Broke, Don't Break It" concept.
(a subset of the "Change Can Be Good, yet Change for the Sake of Change is Idiotic" theory)

[ou48A]

I would like to see the OU marching band increased in size to 400 marching members.....
That way we could hear them.
Several other marching bands have had similar numbers.

[PhiAlpha]

From the comments section of the OU Daily article today...hope it's true!

Justin Moore · Branch services at Arvest Bank
Alumni got word today that Stolarik has changed everything back to the original form. And all but the regular alternates for each section get to march.

[SoonerDave]

From the comments section of the OU Daily article today...hope it's true!

AWESOME!!! I HOPE this proves true.

The bigger question remains - is Stolarik planning to remain as director? Getting trumped twice by public opinion your first month on the job might indicate you haven't quite matched your skill set to the job market...

[bluedogok]

AWESOME!!! I HOPE this proves true.

The bigger question remains - is Stolarik planning to remain as director? Getting trumped twice by public opinion your first month on the job might indicate you haven't quite matched your skill set to the job market...

Is seems like The Peter Principle in effect here, he was an assistant to a long time director, what did he really do at Wisconsin? Seems like he may not be ready for this type of job at this level. If the failed Rob Johnson tenure at JC Penny showed, an underling to someone who has total control of an operation usually doesn't know what to do because they haven't had the responsibility of making those decisions themselves, they always had to defer to someone else.

[mugofbeer]

NOT SO FAST! I went back to check later articles in the Oklahoma Daily and it seems the "alternates" that were relegated to the stands will be playing but the pre-game routine is not going to change from what it was this past Saturday. I really don't know what to make of this situation. Has there been any additional information out about possible "irregularities" with the hiring of the new director? From what has been written in the Oklahoma Daily by a couple of people, both the pre-game routine and the halftime routine were carbon copies of U of Wisconsin shows (replaced with Oklahoma songs and formations). Why on earth would someone take one of the top 5 rated pre-game traditions and turn it into a U of Wisconsin show and think it is OK?

[SoonerDave]

NOT SO FAST! I went back to check later articles in the Oklahoma Daily and it seems the "alternates" that were relegated to the stands will be playing but the pre-game routine is not going to change from what it was this past Saturday. I really don't know what to make of this situation. Has there been any additional information out about possible "irregularities" with the hiring of the new director? From what has been written in the Oklahoma Daily by a couple of people, both the pre-game routine and the halftime routine were carbon copies of U of Wisconsin shows (replaced with Oklahoma songs and formations). Why on earth would someone take one of the top 5 rated pre-game traditions and turn it into a U of Wisconsin show and think it is OK?

mug, I touched base with someone who is a former Pride member and he said that the chevrons and W's were, in fact, going to go, and that matched up with what I'd read independently that the block intro was going to be restored.

I guess we don't/won't know until Saturday night.

[MsProudSooner]

Wouldn't the prime time to make any big changes be after the Tulsa game on September 14th? After that date, the next home game is October 19th.

Boren is a politician to his core and very aware of public opinion. He's already been bombarded with complaints about the fanfare and responded by having it reinstated. He's not been bombarded again with complaints about the new director trying to turn The Pride into "Wisconsin South" and the chevron's and W's are going away. But that doesn't address the problem of the overall quality of the band being worse today than it was last year. West Virginia is supposedly bringing their entire band, 400 strong, to Norman this Saturday. That will bring into stark contrast what our band has become. I think that will start an entire new wave of complaints. Also, people are beginning to let it be known that their contributions to the university will cease until the situation is resolved.

I hope that this ends up being a one-year experiment. If not, I'll be very disappointed in Boren, who has always had my support.

EDIT: I just ran across this on another board: http://firejustinstolarik.com/

[ou48A]

I think the biggest issue is not the band product on the field, but rather the events that apparently surrounded the hiring of what some have said was a lesser qualified candidate.

If the hiring was made as some have suggested and for the reasons that some have suggested, its a serious breach of trust on the part of Boren and OU's leadership.

In recent weeks we have seen a big out cry about the band and about OU's seat cushion and chair-back policy’s... One must wonder about the quality of decisions being made across the campus on a wide range of issues?

[MsProudSooner]

I think the biggest issue is not the band product on the field, but rather the events that apparently surrounded the hiring of what some have said was a lesser qualified candidate.

If the hiring was made as some have suggested and for the reasons that some have suggested, its a serious breach of trust on the part of Boren and OU's leadership.

In recent weeks we have seen a big out cry about the band and about OU's seat cushion and chair-back policy’s... One must wonder about the quality of decisions being made across the campus on a wide range of issues?

The fact that the recommendation of the committee wasn't followed doesn't bother me that much. From what I understand, the President always has the last word.

The bothersome thing to me is that I've always heard that there have been donors in the past that tried to tie their donations to some sort of change they wanted and they were always told "Thanks, but no thanks." I would hate for that philosophy to have changed. Anyone can make a mistake in a hire. I just hope that he realizes his mistake and cuts his losses.

[Mr T]

I wish he would stop the "dry campus" garbage. They haven't stopped drinking at all. They are here in the neighborhoods staggering around, screaming and punching each other and crying about their mothers til 8 in the morning. They don't even come home til 2:30, whacked out on legal meth (adderal), crying. There is NO supervision. The girl who fell off of the building used to "party" across the street. I'm not surprised anyone fell off of anything. We called a landlord in the middle of the night because they were on the roof of a house daring each other to jump (two stories to concrete landing) and others screaming "NO! NO!" If I had a dollar for every time they drive home extremely drunk while the others cry in the street "Stop! Stop!" You are too drunk to drive!!" and the tires scream and they blast through the stop signs, weeping hysterically, at 100 mph, I would be semi-rich. If these are your children you are nuts. Boren belongs to an organization that pays college presidents to have dry campuses, and your children are going to kill someone or die or be a quad, forever. We are really really tired of being kept up all night by a bunch of rich entitled drunk children. Stop it. We aren't rich and we have to go to work and we don't want them to die or kill some poor guy getting off of the late shift. This is ridiculous and stupid and entitled. We the regular people of Norman are really sick of this. This is terrifying and rude and we are at the end of our ropes while he waddles around being Mr. Important and putting the lives of other people at risk. We are almost done caring if the students fall off - we just don't want them to land on some housekeeper at 5:30 in the morning.

[mugofbeer]

I think that something needing to be repeated over and over again is that nothing said on this subject is to reflect on the students performing in the band. They have no say (even after apparently meeting directly with President Boren) in what is going on. What concerns me is that if/when the band goes on the field and the performance is as bad as last week's, there will be a chorus of boos coming from the audience.

[SoonerDave]

The fact that the recommendation of the committee wasn't followed doesn't bother me that much. From what I understand, the President always has the last word.

The bothersome thing to me is that I've always heard that there have been donors in the past that tried to tie their donations to some sort of change they wanted and they were always told "Thanks, but no thanks." I would hate for that philosophy to have changed. Anyone can make a mistake in a hire. I just hope that he realizes his mistake and cuts his losses.

President has the last word...until it involves state hiring rules. Think even Boren/OU have to follow state hiring rules/laws, and that's where I wonder if something squiggly is going on here. Might bear further review.

[PhiAlpha]

I wish he would stop the "dry campus" garbage. They haven't stopped drinking at all. They are here in the neighborhoods staggering around, screaming and punching each other and crying about their mothers til 8 in the morning. They don't even come home til 2:30, whacked out on legal meth (adderal), crying. There is NO supervision. The girl who fell off of the building used to "party" across the street. I'm not surprised anyone fell off of anything. We called a landlord in the middle of the night because they were on the roof of a house daring each other to jump (two stories to concrete landing) and others screaming "NO! NO!" If I had a dollar for every time they drive home extremely drunk while the others cry in the street "Stop! Stop!" You are too drunk to drive!!" and the tires scream and they blast through the stop signs, weeping hysterically, at 100 mph, I would be semi-rich. If these are your children you are nuts. Boren belongs to an organization that pays college presidents to have dry campuses, and your children are going to kill someone or die or be a quad, forever. We are really really tired of being kept up all night by a bunch of rich entitled drunk children. Stop it. We aren't rich and we have to go to work and we don't want them to die or kill some poor guy getting off of the late shift. This is ridiculous and stupid and entitled. We the regular people of Norman are really sick of this. This is terrifying and rude and we are at the end of our ropes while he waddles around being Mr. Important and putting the lives of other people at risk. We are almost done caring if the students fall off - we just don't want them to land on some housekeeper at 5:30 in the morning.

You had me with the anti-dry campus deal but lost me with the crazy stuff half way through. People are still drinking in all of the fraternity houses, its just not near as open. Also I agree (I think) that more people are partying off campus then driving home. The only person I know that fell from a building was a friend from high school and she fell from Evans Hall on campus, so not sure what you're talking about there.

[ou48A]

LOL

[mugofbeer]

As one of the more vocal folks on here about the OU band concern, it seems the leadership listened to the complaints. Fair-is-fair and I will have to say the shortened halftime presentation iof the Pride this last weekend was 1000 times better than week 1. I did not get to see the pre-game show to see if they reverted back to the old format or not. The volume was certainly up and it looked like everyone participated at halftime. Anyone have pregame observations?

[Zuplar]

As one of the more vocal folks on here about the OU band concern, it seems the leadership listened to the complaints. Fair-is-fair and I will have to say the shortened halftime presentation iof the Pride this last weekend was 1000 times better than week 1. I did not get to see the pre-game show to see if they reverted back to the old format or not. The volume was certainly up and it looked like everyone participated at halftime. Anyone have pregame observations?

I was wondering the same thing. I had prior engagements so my wife and a friend went but she missed the opening. She said the volume didn't sound that much louder at half-time, but it seemed as though they made some adjustments.

[SoonerDave]

For the first time in 42 years of going to home OU games, I didn't bother making the special effort to get in early enough to see the band pregame. I'd been hopeful that some rumors indicated Stolarik had hit the reset button on all the dumb changes he made, but later heard that was not accurate. So I finally had to realize that I'm just a fan in this, and a regent with deep pockets and an art collection holds more leverage than anyone worrying about things like tradition. From what I could see on the video board as I walked up the west ramps, the pregame looked exactly the same with the dippy tiptoe run-in, the Wisconsin W's, and the absolutely embarrassing new interlocking OU that I saw just as I got to my seat.

Bottom line is that I just have resigned myself to the fact that Boren just doesn't give a rip about this, and/or the competing influences that have rationalized this sellout are simply outside even the illusion of my influence. And the tradition of the Pride pregame is just another victim along the way. That OU has hired a guy who appears to have no business running a major college band isn't even relevant. The regent is happy, and to heck with anything else along the way.

[MsProudSooner]

For the first time in 42 years of going to home OU games, I didn't bother making the special effort to get in early enough to see the band pregame. I'd been hopeful that some rumors indicated Stolarik had hit the reset button on all the dumb changes he made, but later heard that was not accurate. So I finally had to realize that I'm just a fan in this, and a regent with deep pockets and an art collection holds more leverage than anyone worrying about things like tradition. From what I could see on the video board as I walked up the west ramps, the pregame looked exactly the same with the dippy tiptoe run-in, the Wisconsin W's, and the absolutely embarrassing new interlocking OU that I saw just as I got to my seat.

Bottom line is that I just have resigned myself to the fact that Boren just doesn't give a rip about this, and/or the competing influences that have rationalized this sellout are simply outside even the illusion of my influence. And the tradition of the Pride pregame is just another victim along the way. That OU has hired a guy who appears to have no business running a major college band isn't even relevant. The regent is happy, and to heck with anything else along the way.

I guess I'll wait until the season is over to pass final judgement. I'm not sure if it would be fair to the current band members to make a change in directors in mid-season. And, even if they did, I don't know how much could be changed as far as what they are doing on the field. After the Tulsa game there are only 3 more home games. I will be extremely disappointed in Boren if someone new isn't the director of the Pride next year. But, I'm not a deep pockets donor. I'm just an alum and life long resident of this state.

[mugofbeer]

I don't think too many, including members of the band, are looking for a new band director. If it were to turn out that Stolarik is truly not qualified for the position and his hiring is simply a favor for a lover of Broadway show tunes, then it should be thoroughly investigated and corrected, if necessary. I do wish some of the media would take a good look into this to ensure there isn't any wrongdoing.

I simply think Mr. Stolarik was given some directions that a complete change to the band was needed when, in reality, it was not needed or wanted. The fans clearly enjoyed the pre-game tradition the way it was (with a minor tweak or two) which may have caught Mr. Stolarik a little off guard. He's new and he deserves to be given a chance, but in my mind, he doesn't earn the right to change 40 years of tradition.

I certainly hope that Pres. Boren has learned a little lesson that he doesn't run a kingdom with his friends. He runs a school that belongs to the citizens of Oklahoma.

[MsProudSooner]

In case anyone is on Facebook, there is a new Facebook page called Restore the Pride of Oklahoma:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Resto...ocation=stream

It has a total of over 2,800 followers. It's picked up over 700 since 6 PM today,