OKC Mayor Race 2014

[Midtowner]

So there were 40 new positions last year for the PD. There will be 40 new this year and for the next 3 years assuming revenues keep going up. That's a bad thing?

[Wambo36]

So there were 40 new positions last year for the PD. There will be 40 new this year and for the next 3 years assuming revenues keep going up. That's a bad thing?

I haven't heard anyone say that it's a bad thing. Of course it's a good thing, but why do you think it's happening? Surely you don't think they're doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. If you'd been paying attention, you would have noticed the Police Chief on tv no less than 2-3 times in the last 18 months or so explaining how under staffed his dept. was and that the only answer left, to problems with response times and other complaints, was to hire more officers. You can run the president of the FOP or the FF's out to complain about manning with no results. When the dept. head does it, it gets the attention of the council and they realize that the CM might not be telling them everything there is to know. I respect the police chief for sticking his neck out by going straight to the media and people to put pressure on his bosses. It seems to have paid off.
In contrast, the FS I work at had a staffing of 9 when I got there. When M3 was going on we were down to 7 and today we fluctuate between 5-6 with 5 being the minimum to open the doors. As has been explained before, they've systematically and purposely ran manpower down for years. Sure they're hiring, but barely keeping up with retirements.
You kind of skipped over the question in my last post. What do you think? Idiot or liar?

[Urban Pioneer]

Oh, by the way, I think that Shadid should probably stay in his council seat and serve out his term there. He has a better platform to express himself there IMO.

Exactly. If your going to be a "strong mayor", you have to know how to build relationships, have discipline, and develop a strategy to implement the things you care about.

Since Shadid seems to only lob out barbs at the process and the people involved in it, that is undoubtedly done best as a part of the council, not the spokesman and moderator for it.

[Midtowner]

I haven't heard anyone say that it's a bad thing.

It's not. It happened when the time was right, when revenues were increasing and we could afford to fund salaries, benefits and pensions.

In contrast, the FS I work at had a staffing of 9 when I got there. When M3 was going on we were down to 7 and today we fluctuate between 5-6 with 5 being the minimum to open the doors. As has been explained before, they've systematically and purposely ran manpower down for years. Sure they're hiring, but barely keeping up with retirements.

I haven't heard any problems with fire response times. Perhaps your station has been reduced to help staff new stations? What are the overall numbers since 1993? We've added a new station as recently as 2010 and a lot of staffing has been moved around to save money. How less effective is OKCFD as compared to 10 years ago?

You kind of skipped over the question in my last post. What do you think? Idiot or liar?

Staffing has increased on his watch, so neither.

[catch22]

And I believe they are building a new station at 104th and Rockwell that has yet to open. I believe that is OKC.

[bradh]

And I believe they are building a new station at 104th and Rockwell that has yet to open. I believe that is OKC.

that is correct, that's an OKC station

[Wambo36]

Nice dodge Mid but, as a wise man once said, facts are stubborn things. That he lied is indisputable. It's ok to say he did and you don't care because it furthered an agenda that you support. That's the truth and you should embrace it. It speaks to your character.
I just found it humorous that you were trying to beat on one candidate for doing exactly what the candidate you favor has done in the past. And the mayor definitely knew the limitations of his ability to make those promises. Either that or, as you said, he's an idiot.

[warreng88]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the Mayor say the use tax would go towards PS positions? Around $60 million in use tax was collected from Maps for Kids.

[Wambo36]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the Mayor say the use tax would go towards PS positions? Around $60 million in use tax was collected from Maps for Kids.

The words "use tax" were never used in the multiple commercials that he made. His intent is was evident in the fact that he went to the council immediately after the election to ask them to come up with funds to make good on the campaign promises he'd made. He knew he was lying. We knew he was lying but, those ads weren't intended to sway us. They were for people who didn't know the funding processes for PS.
Once again, I have no interest in rehashing the events from a couple of years ago, but couldn't let Mid's "liar or idiot" statement about Shadid go when it could be more easily applied to Cornett.

[Laramie]

Going to have to express this opinion about the mayor's race. Candidates are going to have characteristics & ideas you are going to like and/or dislike. I vehemently agree with Doug Loudenback that we should take the time and listen to what both
candidates have to say. Take the time to listen and don't be afraid to question each participant about your concerns. Make a sound and solid decision about where you want to take Oklahoma City. When the time is right; go to the polls and vote; because if you don't exercise your right to vote--don't complain about the results.

[Laramie]

Incumbents and already elected officials don't need the same kind of vetting you'd give a new candidate. To be a little blunt, I think it is pretty foolish to listen during campaign season and make a decision pretty squarely based on what you heard during that campaign. We've got two fairly well-known quantities here. Let's not kid ourselves. They are both in full politics mode. I'd vote based on their actions during the last 4 years. What they've accomplished. And tune out most of the political rhetoric.

That's the real problem, we tune out what we don't want to hear and we sometimes ignore what should/could be a real concern. It's never foolish to listen, some people may see it as a waste of time. You are indeed correct: "...vote based on their actions during the last 4 years." My point is this, what does it cost anyone to listen?

[SoonerDave]

"Listening to what both candidates have to say" is a bit of a strawman suggestion in that we have a track record from Cornett to look at. Maybe you like him, like his results, or maybe you don't. But it's out there. And I have little doubt there are probably some unpleasant political ghosts shadowing that trail, too - I'm just not naive enough to believe any politician is entirely white-glove clean.

And Shadid's (to me) rather sudden appearance on city politics leaves me....curious. I didn't focus on him too much for the council race as he was not in my ward, but I remember thinking "he sure seemed to come out of nowhere with a pretty decent machine/organization behind him." That stuff doesn't happen by accident. Not saying its sinister, not saying its good or bad, but it makes me scratch my chin and wonder how that organization seemed to roll together so quickly. So I look to that candidate for two things: 1) To flush out his position, and to do so pretty plainly, perhaps explaining how/why it resonated with so many into a political "force" (for lack of a better term) seemingly so quickly; and 2) To lay out his own agenda within the constraints the OKC mayor's office establishes.

I've heard all but two of those items.

I've heard chronically vague generalities. I've heard "his journey resonates with people." I've heard "trust Ed."

I realize politicians often run on the grist mill of fairly neutral positions. Heck, I'd like to hear a neutral position on something, but I can't even say I've heard that much. Maybe that makes me too much a cynic, but when you work that hard to say nothing of substance about anything, and cap it off with "Trust Me," I inherently don't.

[krisb]

That's the best argument for groupthink I've ever heard. With regard to their track records, it's hard to compare apples to apples since they have not been in the same positions for the same periods of time. Both candidates have been a part of significant accomplishments and controversies. Many argue that the Mayor is less of a policymaker or more of a spokesperson. Why shouldn't messaging and rhetoric be a factor in our assessment of each candidate?

[CaptDave]

go to the polls and vote; because if you don't exercise your right to vote--don't complain about the results.

Ironically that is one of the primary issues many people have with one of the candidates. He didn't participate in the MAPS3 vote and now wants to change what the people that did vote decided. Rather than executing the will of the people, one candidate has decided only he knows what the voters should have voted for. I'll let you figure out which candidate that is. I will give you a hint - someone like that is not likely to be trustEd by most voters.

(And save the "they only voted for a $.01 tax the council can do anything they want with it" BS)

[Urban Pioneer]

Kinda patronizing isn't it?

[kevinpate]

...
(And save the "they only voted for a $.01 tax the council can do anything they want with it" BS)

Actually, that's not BS. Not to say a later OKC council ought to make changes on a total whim, but uh, yeah, the people voted in a tax with no firm restrictions against changes by any future council.

That's not really in dispute. However, and this is not a small however, any future council wanting to go that route will also have to face voters, who may or may not be supportive of their decision to change what was already in the works.

[CaptDave]

It is BS in that everyone involved - voters and elected officials - understand the intent of MAPS referendums and any blatant disregard of the will of the voters is a betrayal of public trust regardless of any games people want to play with the actual language.

[SoonerDave]

It is BS in that everyone involved - voters and elected officials - understand the intent of MAPS referendums and any blatant disregard of the will of the voters is a betrayal of public trust regardless of any games people want to play with the actual language.

I hear ya, Cap, but what you've got to understand is that the "games" with the "actual language" are precisely and exclusively the only things that matter if things end up in court. You can dismiss it all you want, but the fact remains it was written the way it was deliberately. A lot of folks here tried to ring bells about that problem, about the risk of MAPS not binding the council, and those folks were dismissed....and here we are, discussing concerns about a mayoral candidate possibly leveraging the idea of MAPS not binding the council.

It isn't a game. Far from it. Arguably, this "game" is precisely why Shadid has any candidacy at all.

[zookeeper]

Sid - Honestly, while I agree with you on most of this, you seem to be very emotionally invested in this campaign. I ask you, quite honestly: Does your close friendship with Casey Cornett have anything to do with your fierce interest in this race? I don't mean that as snarky, sometimes things like that can overtake our own rational thought. Blood & friendship, those two things can be pretty thick.

[CaptDave]

I hear ya, Cap, but what you've got to understand is that the "games" with the "actual language" are precisely and exclusively the only things that matter if things end up in court. You can dismiss it all you want, but the fact remains it was written the way it was deliberately. A lot of folks here tried to ring bells about that problem, about the risk of MAPS not binding the council, and those folks were dismissed....and here we are, discussing concerns about a mayoral candidate possibly leveraging the idea of MAPS not binding the council.

It isn't a game. Far from it. Arguably, this "game" is precisely why Shadid has any candidacy at all.

I hear you loud and clear - and I am aware you are absolutely correct in a legal sense. I think any future MAPS vote will correct this primarily because we now have people willing to disregard the intent of the voters. The fact we have a mayoral candidate staking his candidacy on this sort of tactic to divide and conquer the electorate does not bode well for our city being worthy of the voters' trust if he is successful.

For the interests who are seeking to gain from these tactics, they are part of the problem. They might achieve some short term win for their particular interest, but in the long run, OKC loses. These tactics are not a good foundation to build Trust. If these interests and Shadid are successful in derailing parts of MAPS3, then the vast majority of OKC voters will consider themselves betrayEd.

I say this as someone who values the discussions Ed initiates (instigates) on the council. I know he drives some of the other councilors crazy, but I think it is good to have many of the discussions Ed is responsible for starting. On the boulevard I was shoulder to shoulder with him - he made a valuable contribution to the FBB effort. I honestly think if Ed had served his full term as councilor, worked his tail off on making MAPS3 better - not dead, gained reelection, and then guided the discussion on future MAPS toward the openness and transparency issues, he would have won the 2018 mayoral election by a landslide because I doubt Mayor Cornett will run again. Had he done all the above, I would likely have been one of Ed's strongest supporters. I still might in future elections, but not right now, not given the statements I have heard so far.

[Wambo36]

Wambo,

Can you clarify, what exactly was the lie? I'm still not following that part. Thanks.

Sid,
I've pretty well laid it out in the last couple of posts. Could you explain what part you're having trouble following? As I said before, it was pretty well covered back when it actually occured, along with videos and a lot more passion. I believe you were here then, weren't you? I know Casey was.

[warreng88]

If these interests and Shadid are successful in derailing parts of MAPS3, then the vast majority of OKC voters will consider themselves betrayEd.

I see what you did there...

[CaptDave]

I see what you did there...

What?? Oops.

[soonerguru]

I think it's very enlightening that there are members of this forum suggesting that Sid didn't arrive at his position based on logic or reason, but because he has hung out with Casey Cornett a couple of times? Who might be saying that? Could that be coming from Dr. Shadid's campaign? Interesting strategy and says a lot.

[Rover]

It's no surprise at all. People think that if you disagree on here that you have some secretive relationships, corruption, hidden agendas, etc. Many don't understand reason and reality, only opinion.

Besides, knowing someone personally sometimes gives you great insight into their TRUE motives. With people I know and trust, I value their insight into who they also trust. The fact that Sid told us that he is inclined to be supportive Mick because he has never heard vitriol spewing forth from Casey and his family and has from Ed tells you the value of knowing persons other than reading about them and other people blindly opining about them. I appreciate that nugget.