Walmart

[soonerguru]

Is Target already there?

Yes, there's a target in Columbia Heights, Northwest.

[RadicalModerate]

If you think about it, blame for planting the seed for all this can be pointed at Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger for opening the door to trade with China and promoting what has become The Global Economy in which the "lifestyle" of the population will be gradually reduced to equal/the lowest common denominator. In other words, "The Great Leveling".

[Just the facts]

There is one Walmart inside the beltway and six Targets. If you want to laugh and throw-up in your mouth at the same time compare any of the six Targets to the Walmart store. I don't know if I have ever seen a parking lot that big between the street and the building and I have been to the parking lot at the Magic Kingdom. It has a 1000' setback from the street.

[Just the facts]

If you think about it, blame for planting the seed for all this can be pointed at Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger for opening the door to trade with China and promoting what has become The Global Economy in which the "lifestyle" of the population will be gradually reduced to equal/the lowest common denominator. In other words, "The Great Leveling".

Dang it - where is that like button?


The guy from Ace Hardware made a great a point about that. China was able to short-cut the whole market building process by dealing directly with Walmart. They were a one-stop importer for China.

[CaptDave]

Dang it - where is that like button?


The guy from Ace Hardware made a great a point about that. China was able to short-cut the whole market building process by dealing directly with Walmart. They were a one-stop importer for China.

Yet when WalMart really started their rapid expansion 20 years ago or so, they loved to wrap themselves in the flag and claim the "Made in the USA" products they were selling was alturistically keeping Americans employed. Wonder what happened to that alturism? My guess is a few of those exalted "job creators" got greedy.

[RadicalModerate]

How many centuries of history does China have? There were Dynasties that lasted longer than the entire history of the U.S.A. Historians of the future will write that "the communist experiment" was an anomoly. In Chinese.

What makes me think about stuff like this was reading some "Histories of Eastern Civilizations" textbooks in an introductory class in college, team-taught by some "younger" prof who looked like a fat Dennis Miller with glasses and an old, old guy who at one time was a U.S. "advisor" to Chaing Kai Shek (sp). I remember there were about three pages in the whole book about the Assyrians or Hittites or Whateverites that had empires that lasted 800 to 1000 years.

Say! How about the bozos occupying the seats of power in The City of Washington District of Columbia make Walmart register as an agent of a foreign government? =)

[soonerguru]

One thing worth adding to the discussion: Target isn't much better than Wal-Mart as far as its corporate citizenry is concerned. It's just damned lucky to have such an egregious competitor to make it look like the "good" choice. It does offer nicer stores and more stylish products, though, even if they're also manufactured in Asian sweat shops.

[BBatesokc]

Why is it crazy to expect somebody working for one of the largest companies in the history of mankind in one of the wealthiest countries in the history of mankind to make a livable wage? Cashiers working at grocery stores in Germany do, why is it not possible here? JMHO.

I didn't say they shouldn't make a livable wage - I said if you're gonna try and raise a family on a Walmart menial job then you best think again. Why does it matter how big the company is? The task you're being paid for is the task you're being paid for. Really curious how much people here think a cashier or stocker should be paid? Personally I have no problem with it being a $9-$10/hr starting wage and maxing out somewhere around $12. You wanna make more? Make yourself more valuable to the company and move up to something else, they promote from within. If being a cashier is the extent of your ability, then so be it. But don't think you're going to raise yourself, and some kids on that $10-$13/hour.

Attack walmart all you want, but show me this cashier/stocker 'Promise Land.' Do Target, Lowes, Home Depot, Braums, etc. pay so much higher for the same job? I know Costco gets koddos for their wages, but certainly for all this hatred towards Walmart that must mean cashiers across the street make $20/hr.

What about all these lovely local eateries we all talk about - are their cashiers getting 40-hour weeks, full health insurance and $15/hr salaries to start?

[BBatesokc]

Big deal, 25 years ago I went to a public high school in California. I wouldn't send my kids to one today. The average Walmart employee makes $15,576 per year based on a 34 hour work week - which has since been lowered to 29 hours resulting in a full time job earning $13,285 per year.

My fellow right-wingers can't on one hand complain that the Obama recovery is all low paying part time jobs and then on the other hand laud Walmart for job creation. It's laughable. Here in Florida there are more full-time (29 hours or more per week) Walmart employees on food stamps than any other company and Walmart is the largest in employer in 33 states - anyone care to guess in how many of those states Walmart employees are also at the top of food stamp recipient list? If not for taxpayer funded social programs people couldn't afford to work at Walmart.

I guess I missed the part where all these people were forced to work at Walmart. Oh right, Walmart ran all the $40,000/yr cashier jobs out of town - what a joke.

If someone wants to have a job where they are done for the week at only 29-hours and $13,000/yr then unless you can show me otherwise - that was their choice.

By my calculations a single person would not qualify for foodstamps in Oklahoma with a full time Walmart job (maximum income of $1,180 to qualify). I'm guessing all these foodstamp recipients are indeed trying to raise an entire family on their cashier job (thus raising the maximum allowable income) and apparently don't have a working spouse or spouse at all. Nothing wrong with being a cashier, I respect anyone who is willing to hold a job, but its simply unrealistic to think you can raise yourself and a couple of kids (or more) on such a menial job.

Could Walmart pay more? Certainly. Are they obligated to? No.

People pick and choose what to be outraged by and that's fine. Personally, I don't see where Walmart is not a direct reflection of our society - we want selection, we want convenience, we want cheap and we want it now. We don't care if we really need it or what impoverished nation it came from or what the impact was to get it to the shelf so we could buy it and probably throw it away weeks or months later. Sorry, but that's virtually all of us and Walmart is simply filling that 'greed/need.' If Americans were really upset with Walmart then Walmart would cease to exist - yet they make billions.

[Just the facts]

If someone wants to have a job where they are done for the week at only 29-hours and $13,000/yr then unless you can show me otherwise - that was their choice.

You are missing the point. Walmart hires people at 40 hours per week, then they start cutting their hours. To make up for the lost income they help sign their employees up for government programs. They keep doing this until they quit or are working 29 hours. If they quit, they get the next person and repeat the process. If you are happy with Walmart using taxpayer dollars to supplement their compensation program then by all means keep shopping at Walmart.

But it isn't just the hours worked that makes Walmart a bad company. They extort tax dollars from many of the communities they are in. Just look at Choctaw. If the towns don't pay up for whatever reason Walmart locates just outside the city limits. As some towns have learned, just when the tax rebates are about to expire and the local towns start to reap the benefit of selling their soul, Walmart moves out of town anyhow - sometimes just right across the street outside the city limits - leaving behind blight in the form of a 100,000 sq foot abandoned building and 10 acres of parking.

I'm not advocating Walmart be made illegal - I am advocating that people stand up for their towns and communities and stop shopping there because it is the right thing to do.

[RadicalModerate]

Quick Question: If Walmart builds just outside of a town, in order to avoid paying money to the municipality, why doesn't the town just annex the area? Choctaw was mentioned: Are there any new developments in that scam involving Walmart (et.al.)?

[BBatesokc]

You are missing the point. Walmart hires people at 40 hours per week, then they start cutting their hours. To make up for the lost income they help sign their employees up for government programs. They keep doing this until they quit or are working 29 hours. If they quit, they get the next person and repeat the process. If you are happy with Walmart using taxpayer dollars to supplement their compensation program then by all means keep shopping at Walmart.

But it isn't just the hours worked that makes Walmart a bad company. They extort tax dollars from many of the communities they are in. Just look at Choctaw. If the towns don't pay up for whatever reason Walmart locates just outside the city limits. As some towns have learned, just when the tax rebates are about to expire and the local towns start to reap the benefit of selling their soul, Walmart moves out of town anyhow - sometimes just right across the street outside the city limits - leaving behind blight in the form of a 100,000 sq foot abandoned building and 10 acres of parking.

I'm not advocating Walmart be made illegal - I am advocating that people stand up for their towns and communities and stop shopping there because it is the right thing to do.

Sounds like they are being good stewards to those they are beholden to - their share holders. Shares I proudly own. To me, you either support capitalism or you don't. It isn't always pretty, but it is our country's foundation.

Looks like the fingers should be wagged at the municipalities that are making bad business relationships - not at Walmart. They operate legally and quite successfully. I have no problem with them. And while a few throw stones whenever and wherever possible, the obvious majority appreciate them and patronize them - as do I.

But I also have no problem with people who choose to boycott them (that's one less person in line in front of me).

[Just the facts]

Brian - that makes you part of the problem. I have defended capitalism against the OKCTalk left for 10 years because the left defines capitalism as government funding corporate America at the expense of American taxpayer and the American employee. It seems you now have the same definition of capitalism that most left-wingers have. I guess at some point the definition of capitalism changed and no one told me but if your definition is now accurate I can go on record as no longer supporting capitalism because what you described I used to know as 'greed'.

[BBatesokc]

Brian - that makes you part of the problem. I have defended capitalism against the OKCTalk left for 10 years because the left defines capitalism as government funding corporate America at the expense of American taxpayer and the American employee. It seems you now have the same definition of capitalism that most left-wingers have. I guess at some point the definition of capitalism changed and no one told me but if your definition is now accurate I can go on record as no longer supporting capitalism because what you described I used to know as 'greed'.

Works for me.

"Greed" - yet another term that is so ambiguous as to simply be for shock value.

One can argue that if you take on more than you need or require then you're greedy. Which to me is extremely dangerous..... "Your house is too big - GREEDY!" "You pay yourself too much - GREEDY!" "You buy food you'll never be able to eat - GREEDY!" "You have more money than you can spend - GREEDY!"

Others will argue that 'greed' only works into the equation when it becomes illegal - and the rest will fall somewhere in between.

I love my $.54/pound bananas and I buy them knowing full and well that many a drop of blood has and continues to spill to fill my 'greed' for them. Its simply a fact. A fact others choose to be in denial of so that they can feel better about buying their cheap bananas, cheap clothes, brooms and many high end electronics.

Walmart is no more guilty of anything than its millions-upon-millions of customers are guilty of and if they want to continue to patronize them (as I do) and work for them (as they do freely) then so be it.

City govt's have to decide what is best for their community. And needless subsidies are nothing new. Look at the billions we give to oil and gas doing lateral drilling. Drilling they would do even if the incentives were much less - those GREEDY bastards!

[CaptDave]

Capitalism, as with most economic and political systems, is reliant upon those participating in those systems to maintain some sort of moral compass. If corporate America still had something that resembled a conscience, I don't think you would see today's predatory capitalism being so prevalent.

When profits at all cost became the sole motivating factor behind business and investment, responsible capitalism was discarded and people bought into it because it was "free market competition". That never goes wrong. Or does it? Sounds a bit like "trickle down" to me.

What happened to benevolence in business? We are fortunate to have a few good corporate citizens in OKC that actually do support the city with civic investments - at least until the predators on Wall Street start asking why investors' money is being "wasted".

If WalMart was still being run by Sam Walton or people with the same moral compass, I don't think we would be having this discussion. But the reality is WalMart in its present form is often a destructive force in America for the reasons cited here and other places. They ceased being good neighbors and good corporate citizens a long time ago. It doesn't have to be this way, but they are now driven by only one motivation - increasing share value for investors. Sam Walton's idea of lowering the cost of living for people has been perverted into lowering the standard of living for many while adding a few bucks to a few portfolios.

[BBatesokc]

And many could define Sam Walton as 'greedy' - he was not shy about boasting claims of growing his presence in America by leaps and bounds and becoming a billion dollar company - something he did ahead of his projected plan.

I love how nostalgia always seems to rewrite history. Sam Walton seems to have been a very good man, but I don't see where he was not realistic in what it would take to make his company extremely profitable. Would he do things differently? Most likely. Would they still be done in a way that others would throw stones regardless - most assuredly.

FYI - I just finished my list and I'm headed to the evil empire in about 30 minutes.

[catch22]

Sounds like they are being good stewards to those they are beholden to - their share holders. Shares I proudly own. To me, you either support capitalism or you don't. It isn't always pretty, but it is our country's foundation.

Looks like the fingers should be wagged at the municipalities that are making bad business relationships - not at Walmart. They operate legally and quite successfully. I have no problem with them. And while a few throw stones whenever and wherever possible, the obvious majority appreciate them and patronize them - as do I.

But I also have no problem with people who choose to boycott them (that's one less person in line in front of me).

Capitalism does not have to be a cold shoulder to your employees and poverty wages.

My job is in danger of being outsourced due to "capitalism". My company is profitable, and certain synergies are being realized that will make it even more profitable and competitive in the coming years. Unfortunately, they see my job classification as a potential area to reduce overall company costs by $10 million per quarter to outsourcing. Our company made $500 million the previous quarter in profit via >$10 billion in revenue. profit margins were up and premium revenue was up. But, they are salivating at the mouth to outsource most of my department for an extra $10 million in profit (which is a drop in the bucket to $10 billion in revenue).

So is capitalism forcing your workforce to work for less to increase profits for the very few at the top despite being profitable? Is that what capitalism is?

If so, I have no desire to be any part of that. And I have no respect for those that push for such a cold-hearted society that thinks nothing of it's workforce or their families. We as a society are supposed to help each other out. Profitable businesses should take pride in helping their workforce be a part of their family and pay them well when they can afford to.

Republicans talk so much about letting the private sector take care of wellfare by allowing companies to expand and be profitable, when lately it seems highly profitable companies have no intention of helping their workforce make it in society.

[jerrywall]

And many could define Sam Walton as 'greedy' - he was not shy about boasting claims of growing his presence in America by leaps and bounds and becoming a billion dollar company - something he did ahead of his projected plan.

I love how nostalgia always seems to rewrite history. Sam Walton seems to have been a very good man, but I don't see where he was not realistic in what it would take to make his company extremely profitable. Would he do things differently? Most likely. Would they still be done in a way that others would throw stones regardless - most assuredly.

FYI - I just finished my list and I'm headed to the evil empire in about 30 minutes.

Sam Walton would be ashamed with how his company is run nowadays.

He paid his employees well. Cashiers at Wal-Mart when Sam was alive were paid $13-15 an hour. That was in the 80's. They get paid $10 or less now. They were partners (hence, the "partners" name tags) with true ownership stakes, and felt like part of the business. No longer. Annually, wal-mart gave great employee discounts, and had a special Christmas shopping night where employees got 75% off so they could buy for their family. No more. All the great Sam programs are gone now.

[BBatesokc]

Sam Walton would be ashamed with how his company is run nowadays.

He paid his employees well. Cashiers at Wal-Mart when Sam was alive were paid $13-15 an hour. That was in the 80's. They get paid $10 or less now. They were partners (hence, the "partners" name tags) with true ownership stakes, and felt like part of the business. No longer. Annually, wal-mart gave great employee discounts, and had a special Christmas shopping night where employees got 75% off so they could buy for their family. No more. All the great Sam programs are gone now.

Like I said, nostalgia has a way of distorting facts.

I have Sam's biography and I recall he knew the value of cutting overhead and he saw payroll as one of his largest overhead expenses. He also only placed a woman (Hillary Clinton) on his historically all male board when he felt he had to. Your saint to working man also fiercely fought off unionization because he knew how much organized unions could cost him.

I'm not saying he didn't pay cashiers $13-$15/hr. - but I've never heard that and would love to see a link to some proof beyond blind admiration.

[jerrywall]

Like I said, nostalgia has a way of distorting facts.

I have Sam's biography and I recall he knew the value of cutting overhead and he saw payroll as one of his largest overhead expenses. He also only placed a woman (Hillary Clinton) on his historically all male board when he felt he had to. Your saint to working man also fiercely fought off unionization because he knew how much organized unions could cost him.

I'm not saying he didn't pay cashiers $13-$15/hr. - but I've never heard that and would love to see a link to some proof beyond blind admiration.

Well, my mother worked there for many years and raised us on it, and also we relied on the discounts for the Christmas shopping. But take that however you want. All I can provide for proof is personal knowledge and experience. Sam was a great employer. His heirs, not so much.

[Servicetech571]

I'm not sure if its this way in all markets, but in OKC, Wal-Mart locations are always understaffed and poorly stocked. I don't see their days as numbered yet though. There are too many markets where Wal-Mart has little or no real competition. Most people I know shop there because its convenient and its cheaper plus in OKC they have taken over the way they have many smaller markets. Most people who don't shop at Wal-Mart do so on principle, especially in OKC where its difficult to avoid.

Dollar General is growing like crazy in Oklahoma, especially once you get to the outskirts of the metro. They are popping up all over the place in rural areas, getting traffic of the people not wanting to drive to town to fight Walmart traffic. Prices are competitive with Walmart.

For people who have time to wait there is always the internet, prices are even cheaper than Walmart.

[RadicalModerate]

Is it true that Dollar General has been Banned in Seattle due to their use of the word "outskirts" in their permit application?

[BBatesokc]

Dollar General is growing like crazy in Oklahoma, especially once you get to the outskirts of the metro. They are popping up all over the place in rural areas, getting traffic of the people not wanting to drive to town to fight Walmart traffic. Prices are competitive with Walmart.

For people who have time to wait there is always the internet, prices are even cheaper than Walmart.

I certainly patronize Dollar General and their competition when I need some of the basics. My only issue is it tends to take forever to check out and some of their 'low prices' are deceptive. The product is often not identical to what the big box stores are selling. A gallon of "X" at Walmart may be $.75 more expensive, based on size - but its a concentrated version. Where the dollar store version is not concentrated and therefore actually more expensive. That said, lately I've found some items I typically buy at Sam's are actually often cheaper at Walmart. I reserve the dollar type store for the times when the wife yells, "would you mind running to the store and picking up x, y, z." (paper towels, napkins, soda pop, cleaning product or canned good).

I shop Target too. I find it odd Target usually avoids the hatred spewed at Walmart when they are certainly not so different - other than the packaging of the shopping experience. I just find Target to have the exact same basics at often higher to much higher prices. Foolish to pay more for the exact same thing.

Well, my mother worked there for many years and raised us on it, and also we relied on the discounts for the Christmas shopping. But take that however you want. All I can provide for proof is personal knowledge and experience. Sam was a great employer. His heirs, not so much.

Again, I really have my doubts that in the 80's cashiers were making $13-$15/hr on their paychecks - but I have no proof. I've done some hunting online and all I can find backs up what I said earlier - Sam did not like paying his employees more than he had to.

[Just the facts]

Is it true that Dollar General has been Banned in Seattle due to their use of the word "outskirts" in their permit application?

Close, but it was because of the word 'General' in the name. It was deemed too militant and would potentially strike fear into 'residents' near their stores. My understanding is they will change the name to 'Dollar Things of Various Uses'.

[RadicalModerate]

Close, but it was because of the word 'General' in the name. It was deemed too militant and would potentially strike fear into 'residents' near their stores. My understanding is they will change the name to 'Dollar Things of Various Uses'.

DUDE . . . I think they are handing out Political Re-Education passes at Walmart today . . .
Sounds like you are in need of a tune-up . . . =)

(you get a "free fone" in the bargain along with a little, ingestable, pill containing some Nanotech stuff)