Walmart

[Just the facts]

To keep all the Walmart discussion out of the other threads I thought we could have one just for them.

I am starting to wonder if the days of Walmart might be numbered. When I used to drive to Atlanta (3 years ago) I went through Waycross, GA almost every week. At one time Waycross was a booming town with a surprising large downtown for a community it's size. This was because Waycross was the center of a large farming area and everyone came to downtown to shop. Then Walmart built a store on the edge of town and downtown died. I remember driving through and seeing the Walmart parking lot full and then driving by downtown Waycross and see abandoned building with boarded up windows. It made me sad. Why would people destroy their own town to save a few dollars on stuff that was cheaply made?

My kids have a karate event in Waycross this Saturday so I am taking them up for the day. The wife asked what I was going to do with my few hours of time and I told her I was going to downtown and take some pictures of the old abandoned buildings. Concerned for my safety she asked me to show her the area on Google Earth. To my surprise, downtown Waycross has been revitalized and now looks really nice; on-street parking, businesses in all the store fronts, new downtown streets and sidewalks, pedestrian friendly intersections, historic street light etc... They even have 4 downtown restaurants now. Now my wife is thinking about going with me.

I am starting to wonder if Walmart will be able to survive in small town America if these communities restore the civic pride they once had. All I know is this - for the first time in my life I am actually looking forward to going to Waycross, GA.

[bchris02]

I'm not sure if its this way in all markets, but in OKC, Wal-Mart locations are always understaffed and poorly stocked. I don't see their days as numbered yet though. There are too many markets where Wal-Mart has little or no real competition. Most people I know shop there because its convenient and its cheaper plus in OKC they have taken over the way they have many smaller markets. Most people who don't shop at Wal-Mart do so on principle, especially in OKC where its difficult to avoid.

[Just the facts]

We will see if this is a trend I guess but it is safe to say that most small towns were sucker punched by Walmart. Town leaders had visions that Walmart was going to save their towns but all Walmart really did was kick their historic downtowns into their graves. Now some of these small towns are crawling up out of the grave, dusting themselves off, and fighting back.

It's not just Waycross either - other rural towns in the region here are rediscovering their collective civic pride. Check out Stark, FL. I haven't been there in 15 years but the last time I was there downtown was totally abandoned. Now every nearly store is full and they are sporting a sidewalk cafe.

I'm not saying Walmart will be gone in a year (as their parking lots are still full) but I just like where this is going. If Walmart loses small town America that could spell trouble for them.

[Bunty]

Downtown stores could try surviving better in the presence of big box stores by getting involved in merchandising and services that Wal-Mart wants no part of, such as used merchandize, jewelry repair, bars, nice restaurants, etc. Maybe that's how they did it in Waycross, perhaps along with making downtown a BID (Business Improvement District), meaning downtown business owners had their taxes raised.

[Just the facts]

Since Waycross is just outside the Jacksonville media market I am not sure how they did it but I know the rebuilding of the public realm wasn't free. I agree that if big box retailers would join the effort to bring local downtowns back to life huge progress could be made. Walmart could play a role but it goes against everything their company believes in.

[Bunty]

Since Waycross is just outside the Jacksonville media market I am not sure how they did it but I know the rebuilding of the public realm wasn't free. I agree that if big box retailers would join the effort to bring local downtowns back to life huge progress could be made. Walmart could play a role but it goes against everything their company believes in.

So a Wal-mart on one side of downtown and a Home Depot on the other wouldn't drive the little stores in between out of business from the big boxes drawing people downtown? If so, maybe the big box stores feel they don't owe the little stores any favor. Wal-Mart wants the little stores in its front, so you have to go to Wal-Mart to get to them.

[bchris02]

We will see if this is a trend I guess but it is safe to say that most small towns were sucker punched by Walmart. Town leaders had visions that Walmart was going to save their towns but all Walmart really did was kick their historic downtowns into their graves. Now some of these small towns are crawling up out of the grave, dusting themselves off, and fighting back.

It's not just Waycross either - other rural towns in the region here are rediscovering their collective civic pride. Check out Stark, FL. I haven't been there in 15 years but the last time I was there downtown was totally abandoned. Now every nearly store is full and they are sporting a sidewalk cafe.

I'm not saying Walmart will be gone in a year (as their parking lots are still full) but I just like where this is going. If Walmart loses small town America that could spell trouble for them.

One thing about rural America is you once had to drive to larger cities/towns to go to Kmart/Target/TG&Y for even basic staples or buy from the local mom/pop store at a much higher price (if they had what you needed in stock). Wal-Mart brings what was once big-town conveniences to the small town. While Wal-Mart has become a symbol of low-class, rural America, superstores like that used to be non-existent there. While I can definitely see some small boutique towns fighting back, I doubt that is happening in a majority of the cases. Americans are addicted to Wal-Mart.

[Just the facts]

So a Wal-mart on one side of downtown and a Home Depot on the other wouldn't drive the little stores in between out of business from the big boxes drawing people downtown?

I don't think so. If that was the case no retailers would ever locate in a shopping mall or strip shopping center with other stores selling the same items near by. In actuality, the modern shopping mall does exactly what you just described. They put large anchors on the ends, a public feature in the center (usually a fountain, gazebo, or stage) with smaller retailers lining the path in between (with a unified 'streetwall' I might add). BTW - did you know that the stores lining the faux public realm at center court are the most expensive to rent, which is why they are often occupied by jewelry stores, and store near the anchors are the cheapest to rent, which is why they are occupied by pet stores, places selling baseball caps, eye glass stores, and used game dealers (gamestop).

Retailers need to differentiate themselves from each other but when they locate next to each other the whole is greater than the parts. How many places can you buy a shirt at in Penn Sq. mall? If you need a shirt where are you most likely to go if you want options to pick from?

What Walmart did was essentially create their own downtown from a 'goods' stand point, but then they put it on the edge of town with a large parking lot - but what Walmart can't compete with is the sense of place and civic pride an actual downtown can provide - in fact, for many rural towns they killed both of those ideas for a generation.

[Stew]

As a consumer I've spent a lot of money at Walmart over the years but quite frankly since the 2007 recession Walmart has taken a nosedive, at least in the OKC area. Somewhere along the way they lost me as a customer. I haven't stepped foot in a Walmart in a while. I'm sure others feel the same way. It's a shame too because there was a time when Walmart rocked.

[bchris02]

As a consumer I've spent a lot of money at Walmart over the years but quite frankly since the 2007 recession Walmart has taken a nosedive, at least in the OKC area. Somewhere along the way they lost me as a customer. I haven't stepped foot in a Walmart in a while. I'm sure others feel the same way. It's a shame too because there was a time when Walmart rocked.

I agree. Wal-Marts in OKC are some of the worst I've seen as far service, cleanliness, and being well stocked. I wonder why that is the case. My guess is that it has to do with the lack of competition here. Yes there are alternatives but they are negligible and aren't making Wal-Mart sweat at all.

[Bunty]

I don't think so. If that was the case no retailers would ever locate in a shopping mall or strip shopping center with other stores selling the same items near by. In actuality, the modern shopping mall does exactly what you just described. They put large anchors on the ends, a public feature in the center (usually a fountain, gazebo, or stage) with smaller retailers lining the path in between (with a unified 'streetwall' I might add). BTW - did you know that the stores lining the faux public realm at center court are the most expensive to rent, which is why they are often occupied by jewelry stores, and store near the anchors are the cheapest to rent, which is why they are occupied by pet stores, places selling baseball caps, eye glass stores, and used game dealers (gamestop).

Muskogee and Lawton have enclosed shopping malls downtown. I haven't been to either one in a long time. So I wonder if the presence of their malls have done more harm than good to their downtowns.

[kelroy55]

I agree. Wal-Marts in OKC are some of the worst I've seen as far service, cleanliness, and being well stocked. I wonder why that is the case. My guess is that it has to do with the lack of competition here. Yes there are alternatives but they are negligible and aren't making Wal-Mart sweat at all.

I have several choices here but I prefer Krogers or Albertsons over Wal-Mart.

[Just the facts]

Muskogee and Lawton have enclosed shopping malls downtown. I haven't been to either one in a long time. So I wonder if the presence of their malls have done more harm than good to their downtowns.

Hold on - you changed one of the criteria there. Enclosed shopping malls generally hurt businesses outside the mall because they steal pedestrian from the sidewalk, a real public realm, and put them in the fake public realm of the center court and mall corridor (which closes when the mall closes and isn't owned by the public at all). It has generally been accepted that enclosed downtown malls turned out to be bad ideas - in fact, based on the vast number of abandoned malls over the last 30 years the entire concept of an indoor might have been a bad idea.

Very interesting article on the rise and fall of the shopping mall.

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/art...s-retire/2568/

[kelroy55]

Anyway back on topic I think Wal-Mart provided something consumers wanted and if there was room for a store in the downtown area they might have built it there. It's the same thing Lowes and Home Depot have done to the old hardware stores.

[Teo9969]

Are Walmart's days numbered?

Well...I mean, they can only go down from being the #1 Fortune 500 company after overtaking Exxon last year...

[Just the facts]

What was the #1 company 20 years ago? Hint, their initials are GM. Wal-mart wasn't even in the top 500 back then.

[kelroy55]

What was the #1 company 20 years ago? Hint, their initials are GM.

The difference is when the economy turns bad people don't buy cars but they still have to buy food and at cheap prices so WM is safer than GM.

[Stew]

What was the #1 company 20 years ago? Hint, their initials are GM. Wal-mart wasn't even the top 500 back then.

Well it was AT&T so I'm not sure of the tie in to your clue.

[Just the facts]

According to this database it was General Motors.

FORTUNE 500: 1993 Archive Full List 1-100

[Stew]

According to this database it was General Motors.

FORTUNE 500: 1993 Archive Full List 1-100

According to this link it was AT&T. The World's Biggest Companies Over the Past 20 Years-Kiplinger

Regardless though I get your point. I think another good example is how quickly sears fell from the top.

[kelroy55]

According to this database it was General Motors.

FORTUNE 500: 1993 Archive Full List 1-100

It also depends on what #1 you were talking about. GM profits in your link were -23,498.3 million. I agree with both you and Stew, you can be on top and then in a few years sink.

[Teo9969]

The point is that in the midst of the emergence/renaissance of Urbanism, Wal-Mart is not only maintaining, it is growing.

And I don't know if anyone has paid attention, but the distance between #1/#2 and #3 is massive.

[Just the facts]

Well, actually.....

Wal-Mart sales decline: America?s largest retailer is slipping as customers move upscale and online. - Slate Magazine

No company likes to admit problems, but yesterday’s quarterly earnings report from Wal-Mart featured a remarkable amount of excuse-making, even by corporate standards. The company surprised analysts by reporting a 1.4 percent quarterly decline in comparable-store sales across the United States. In other words, Wal-Mart’s American stores sold less stuff this past quarter than the quarter before. Wal-Mart blamed this drop on essentially everything under the sun except people not wanting to shop at their stores:

[Teo9969]

You're going to bring a quarterly report to a large scope discussion?

[Just the facts]

A 1000 mile journey starts with a single step.