OKC boom eras

[OKCNDN]

Everybody knows OKC is booming right now. Things are happening at an incredible level, most notably OKC has an actual big-league franchise in the Thunder! That was absolutely unthinkable 8 years ago at this time.

It got me to thinking. I remember part of the oil boom of the 70's-early 80's. There have been stories of OKC big shots trying to get a domed stadium and a NFL team, of how the nation's third largest bank, Penn Square Bank (not sure about the name) going belly up and hurting OKC big-time. When I consider how big Chase and Citibank are today it is mind-blowing to me that OKC had a bank that was once the nation's third largest. Also many small towns in Oklahoma were prospering big-time. Hammon, that tiny hiccup in Roger Mills county, had an actual downtown that was filled with businesses. And some of my friends from Gracemont said you couldn't get a rental there, not even in a then-newly opened trailer park because of all the oil workers in the area. And Tulsa had the USFL Outlaws.

How does the current boom compare to that of the 70's-early 80's boom? I was real young at that time. Things now seem to be bigger but I probably am not giving the previous boom the credit it deserves. So what about now versus then? Which was bigger?

[ljbab728]

It's not really that important to your question but Penn Square was never close to being the third largest bank in the country. I'm not sure where you were getting your information. Perhaps it said something about third largest bank failure?

[pedmond]

For what it's worth, Penn Square Bank wasn't the third largest bank in the country, however, they were somewhat responsible for bringing down Continental Illinois Bank in Chicago which was one of the largest banks in the country.

I was in my thirties during the oil boom/bust of the late seventies and early eighties, and for me it's hard to say if it was bigger. Back then it seemed anyone that could get a loan from Penn Square Bank was getting into the oil/gas business.( and I knew several of the guys mentioned in the book Belly Up) Guys that had been selling used cars one week were suddenly in the oil/gas business and driving Corvettes, wearing Rolex watches and leaving the office at 11 am to play golf for the rest of the day.

Then once Penn Square Bank failed, it was like they turned the lights out in OKC. Times got real tough and it took the decade of the eighties for OKC to get back on it's feet.

[adaniel]

Really should read Funny Money. It details OKC and its oil feuled 1970's glory pretty well.

I was not even alive in the 1970's, but I get the drift the "boom" we are in now seems to have stronger roots than the one in the 1970's. The stuff back then was built on speculation and debt.

I am lucky to have professional contacts with some the old timers. Its sounds like it was a groovy time...LOTS of cocaine though. One guy told me he went to Edmond back in 1979, and one of the parents shuttled a helicopter for their daughter and her date to go eat in Dallas, and then be whisked back to Edmond for the big dance. Thank god such excess seems to be kept to a minimum.

[mugofbeer]

Back to subject, with what I read on here and then thinking ahead to the Central Park project, as long as oil and gas do as well as they are, OKC may be in for a building boom that is unprecedented in its brief history. Growth creates momentum. MAPS started it all with a definite kick-start from oil and gas, but with the projects underway, projects being planned and projects that are just starting to be discussed, its going to be fun to watch and the building cranes aren't going to stop being used. Downtown and midtown housing - mid and high rises will start to show up more and more.

When I go home, what worries me are the parts of town in the doughnut around downtown. I see an awful lot of decay. I hope that some inspiration and momentum can be created to get a renovation boom spurred in those areas as well.

[OKCNDN]

It's not really that important to your question but Penn Square was never close to being the third largest bank in the country. I'm not sure where you were getting your information. Perhaps it said something about third largest bank failure?

Yeah I must have gotten my info wrong. I was still in grade school in the early 80's so I must have not recalled exactly what was said.

Thanks for the book suggestions.

And today's boom sure does seem to be built on stronger roots. But I bet the guys in the 70's were just as sure about their financial footing as people are today. Just think, OKC's current boom is fueled by oil and gas as well. Chesapeake and Devon are leading the way. Think their bubble could burst (or has already burst with Tom Ward resigning from Sandridge and McClendon being forced out recently)? Think in 30 years from now people might hear the name Chesapeake and chuckle? I sure hope not.

So during the boom of the 70-80's Crossroads and Quail Springs opened. Penn Square went from an open-air design to being closed in. And there was the Galleria planned for downtown. Only the outlet mall has opened during this boom.

Current boom has the Ford Center-Chesapeake Energy. 70's boom had the Myriad.

Current boom has the core-to-shore park. 70's boom had the Myriad Gardens.

Current boom has the Thunder. 70s boom led to the Oklahoma Outlaws.

The oil boom of the 70's is much bigger across the entire state than the current boom. I sure hope the current boom has longer lasting effects.

Anybody have any thoughts on what OKC might look like had the 70-80's boom not went bust? Any ideas of what might have been built had the plans of the 70-80's boom actually been built?

[bchris02]

Anybody have any thoughts on what OKC might look like had the 70-80's boom not went bust? Any ideas of what might have been built had the plans of the 70-80's boom actually been built?

It's hard to tell because it could have went a few different ways. Here are my thoughts though.

Had the Pei Plan been completed, OKC would have one of the most unique downtowns in the country, though not necessarily good urbanism. It's hard to say whether the result would have been an asset to OKC or not. Urban living would probably be developing quite differently in that environment than it currently is. It may be possible that downtown would be less attractive. It would be more suburban and auto-centric in nature. It's possible OKC would be more like Jacksonville - most development still focused in the suburbs. In place of downtown development, OKC would have more mixed use, new urbanist development up along Memorial.

As far as amenities I think OKC would be very comparable with other metro areas between 1 million and 2 million nationwide with its own unique perks and unique drawbacks. Tulsa would be great for what it is but it would be decidedly at a lower level and really wouldn't be competition for OKC. As is, OKC is really still playing catch up.

Another thing to consider is the city would have kept growing and wouldn't have stagnated. The massive brain drain of the 80s, 90s, and early 00s wouldn't have been nearly as large of a factor if at all. My guess is the metro area would have between 1.5 and 1.7 million people today.

[Teo9969]

Considering that OKC has really not even batted an eye at the mountains of horrific news out of CHK and SD the past year, It's hard to argue that this is similar to a Penn Square Bank type thing. I don't think US energy is on a bubble which would bode well for OKC...But you also have just an overall healthier economy with more businesses moving in and starting up that are not directly related to energy. Things like Boeing bring jobs, Paycom, Medical businesses, GE Research, AT&T jobs, etc. It seems pretty different.

[Jim Kyle]

Had the Pei Plan been completed, OKC would have one of the most unique downtowns in the country, though not necessarily good urbanism. It's hard to say whether the result would have been an asset to OKC or not. Urban living would probably be developing quite differently in that environment than it currently is. It may be possible that downtown would be less attractive.

I was around at the time, although not particularly interested in what was happening downtown (until it was too late). My guess is that if the Plan had been completed and the 1982 bust had not happened, OKC would today be like a miniature version of L.A. except that we destroyed what would have been our Alvera Street area.

At that time, the decay that had already killed the CBD and formed a ghetto-like ring around the city's core had spread out to include NW/NE 23rd street as far west as Portland, and many middle-class families (including my own) were fleeing to the suburbs to escape it. I moved from a block west of Shepherd Mall on NW 24 out to the area of NW 122 and Council, which in 1982 was definitely out in the boonies; we were the second family to move into our neighborhood and the first was our next-door neighbor. The building boom of sprawl was still in full swing at that time, but almost all of the builders went broke during the next five years and the homes on either side of mine went through FHA foreclosure at least once.

Had the bust not happened, though, I think the sprawl would have been filled in with semi-urban developments, much as L.A. is surrounded by Northridge, Chatsworth, Van Nuys, Panorama City, Studio City, Bell Gardens, and so on. The semi-isolated strip malls that dot our entire area today would have developed into thriving small communities, and the atmosphere would be totally different.

I'm not at all certain that I would prefer that to what we have, but the question is moot anyway...

[bchris02]

I was around at the time, although not particularly interested in what was happening downtown (until it was too late). My guess is that if the Plan had been completed and the 1982 bust had not happened, OKC would today be like a miniature version of L.A. except that we destroyed what would have been our Alvera Street area.

At that time, the decay that had already killed the CBD and formed a ghetto-like ring around the city's core had spread out to include NW/NE 23rd street as far west as Portland, and many middle-class families (including my own) were fleeing to the suburbs to escape it. I moved from a block west of Shepherd Mall on NW 24 out to the area of NW 122 and Council, which in 1982 was definitely out in the boonies; we were the second family to move into our neighborhood and the first was our next-door neighbor. The building boom of sprawl was still in full swing at that time, but almost all of the builders went broke during the next five years and the homes on either side of mine went through FHA foreclosure at least once.

Had the bust not happened, though, I think the sprawl would have been filled in with semi-urban developments, much as L.A. is surrounded by Northridge, Chatsworth, Van Nuys, Panorama City, Studio City, Bell Gardens, and so on. The semi-isolated strip malls that dot our entire area today would have developed into thriving small communities, and the atmosphere would be totally different.

I'm not at all certain that I would prefer that to what we have, but the question is moot anyway...

I agree. We would have a lot more mixed use, new urbanism developments in the suburbs but likely less development downtown. We probably still would be seeing a downtown renaissance though because that seems to be the trend nationwide. It's important to remember that OKC would probably be a good deal larger today had the bust not happened.

[warreng88]

Sorry if this is such an elementary question, but where was the funding to fully construct the Pei Plan going to come from? Were companies expected to build office buildings or was OKC going to build a bunch of spec office space hoping to lease it? I know OKC was not great after the Pei Plan started and really into the mid-90's when the MAPS projects started, but I am glad it didn't go through. I looked through the photos of what it was going to look like and I didn't like it at all.

[Jim Kyle]

We were going to have a huge privately-funded shopping mall, called the Galleria and patterned after the one of the same name in Dallas, that would cover most of the CBD. No new towers were in the plan, and the whole idea was automobile-based since this was the era of bigger and better sprawl. The glitzy new Galleria was supposed to draw the retailers back from Mayfair, Uptown, and Capitol Hill, to which they had migrated -- but its private funding fell through and not even the associated parking garages got built. I don't remember any downtown office space being included, nor any replacement residential capability. It was decidedly the opposite of "urban" development...

[Dubya61]

If you believe the Wikipedia article about the Pei Plan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pei_Plan_(Oklahoma_City), a lot of it was funded with federal government money and that dried up with Nixon. It also alludes to major retail becoming very leery of downtown. Finally, it has a graphic that shows planned demolition in red and the damned graphic is 80% red!

[traxx]

Sorry if this is such an elementary question, but where was the funding to fully construct the Pei Plan going to come from? Were companies expected to build office buildings or was OKC going to build a bunch of spec office space hoping to lease it? I know OKC was not great after the Pei Plan started and really into the mid-90's when the MAPS projects started, but I am glad it didn't go through. I looked through the photos of what it was going to look like and I didn't like it at all.

Agreed. I'm glad it didn't end up happening. It was very '70s modern with a definite Logan's Run aesthetic.

[Snowman]

It looks like a ships in a port, a canal would sell the illusion.

[Plutonic Panda]

Agreed. I'm glad it didn't end up happening. It was very '70s modern with a definite Logan's Run aesthetic.

yeah but it could've been remodeled. This would've been a game changer to have a Galleria here in OKC! I just wish they could've found a way to do it without tearing out old buildings

[Spartan]

It's not really that important to your question but Penn Square was never close to being the third largest bank in the country. I'm not sure where you were getting your information. Perhaps it said something about third largest bank failure?

I think this is accurate. Prob AT THE TIME.. Still nationally significant

[mkjeeves]

The failure of Penn Square Bank, N.A. (Penn Square), Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, still ranks as one of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation’s (FDIC’s) most publicized, most difficult, and most colorful bank resolutions. Penn Square failed July 5, 1982, with $470.4 million in deposits and $516.8 million in assets. By aggressively making large and speculative loans, especially to the oil and gas industries, the bank had grown from $62 million in assets in 1977 to $520 million in assets by mid-1982.1 Penn Square then sold majority interests in those loans to other banks (in the form of loan participations), but retained the responsibility for servicing the entire loan amount.2 At its failure, Penn Square was servicing approximately $2 billion in loans.

Of the $470.4 million in deposits, only about $207.5 million were insured. The bulk of uninsured deposits were funds of other banks. After extensive discussions with the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC) and the Federal Reserve Bank (Federal Reserve), the FDIC made the decision to pay off the insured deposits of Penn Square. A payoff was deemed to be necessary to resolve the failing institution at the least cost to the deposit insurance fund. As a result, Penn Square became the largest bank failure in the FDIC’s history in which uninsured depositors suffered losses.

http://www.fdic.gov/bank/historical/...istory2-03.pdf

The much larger sister company of the company I worked for had a few million of those bad energy loans they used to drill dry holes.