OG&E Tower

[SoonerDave]

The building was apparently not doing a lot of favors to the arts community either. Several have stated that it was not fitted well for the types of shows they or the touring acts did and was somewhat inflexible, plus both in building and renovation it bit the biger downers on each of the larger drives. First by insulting people for not being happy about a design they did not like and second by flooding again a few years after repairs were made. A drawback of one off designs that are trying a new approach is that is where you tend find problems, many of the most well known structures were not the first of their style but a high point in the refinement of that style, often in a popular or at least be heavily traveled location

I guess the "Like" button is gone again, so in its absence.. "THIS."

The recurring theme is that everyone things this building is just wonderful until someone has the audacity to try and use it...then, not so much.

[warreng88]

Lyric is downtown...at the Civic Center (rebuilt with Maps money), and the smaller plays at the Plaza.

To clarify, Lyric has four shows a year at the Civic Center who they rent the space from, but they have four or more shows a year at the Plaza Theatre. The Civic Center shows only run six shows each for a total of 24 shows throughout the total summer. The shows at the Plaza Theatre usually run about three to four weeks with five shows a week, sometimes more. Also, if it weren't for Lyric being the "anchor tenant", 16th street might not be where it is today.

[Rover]

Millennials have a much greater appreciation for the arts than most other recent generations. The cities they want to live in are cities with a vibrant arts culture. OKC would be unwise to ignore this fact.

Wouldn't the Stage Center be cool as an art museum?

Wow. I have been to the OKC Museum of Art 3 times in the last month, the Fred Jones Museum twice, multiple Paseo art galleries and to two Lyric productions in the last month. I failed to see virtually any millennials at any of these venues. I wish it was otherwise, but tatoo art and bar art doesn't constitute supporting the arts. The millennials need to actually go to some of the outstanding art events we have in this city and it might help to actually create a stronger impression of support for venues like SC.

SC would never make a good art museum. It would require a huge and very expensive retrofit. Just the lighting and HVAC requirements alone would be very expensive. Contours of the theaters are not conducive to an art museum. And, as already posted, the threat of damage from flooding, etc. would have to be permanently eliminated.

[zookeeper]

The reality of this situation is starting to settle in as we have moved from the conceptual idea of it being demolished to knowing it's going to happen, and likely soon.


I'm sure once we see the plans people will start to think it terms of moving forward.

As I. M. Pei once said almost verbatim.

[Teo9969]

I can only imagine how all those great works of art would look after the damage inflicted by the inevitable next flood or roof collapse or corresponding disaster to befall the place...

LOL!!!!!

money shot

[zookeeper]

I kind of feel the same way, Rainey Williams is the "point man" to run interference for OG+E/Enogex/Centerpoint and to take the heat off of them for the demolition of Stage Center. It was done now to get the pump primed so to speak, it wouldn't be the first time this has happened, I have seen it happen before and the project was turned over to a developer after the hurdles had been cleared.

It's sad that manipulation and social engineering an entire city is seemingly accepted as business as usual.

[Urbanized]

It's sad that we are so quick on this site to impugn someone's integrity without knowing all of the details of a story.

[Rover]

It's sad that we are so quick on this site to impugn someone's integrity without knowing all of the details of a story.

Agree

[bluedogok]

It's sad that manipulation and social engineering an entire city is seemingly accepted as business as usual.

Nothing new, it is something that has been done in every "civilization" in some form or another throughout the history of time.

What is sad is people don't care about something until it is about to be torn down, instead they let it languish for twenty years until an alternate use for the site looks ready to happen. The fact is Stage Center was a poor functional design from the outset, that is why it hasn't been resurrected by theater companies since. But then I am much more on making sure a building works for its intended purpose rather than making the intended purpose fit into a building, if it doesn't work for its intended purpose it is a bad design and merely a sculpture.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

From my memories of the interior of Stage Center...I think it *might* be useful as an urban paintball course. Or a hide-and-seek funhouse.

It's cool and quirky, but I don't think I'll miss it much.

[warreng88]

From my memories of the interior of Stage Center...I think it *might* be useful as an urban paintball course. Or a hide-and-seek funhouse.

It's cool and quirky, but I don't think I'll miss it much.

Laser Tag...

[Thundercitizen]

It could serve as a mechanical yard for the tower....cleverly disguised.

[Pete]

It's fair to say that businesses and individuals use all types of means to at least temporarily conceal the true ownership or longer terms plans of a real estate deal.

Remember that Continental's purchase of 20 N. Broadway was held in the name of Ford Price, Chesapeake kept changing the names of LLC's during it's crazy acquisition period, Tom Ward & family used an LLC to purchase the property at 4th & Broadway -- at least we believe they are the ones behind the LLC, we don't know for sure. And we are pretty darn sure Devon is behind Nick Preftakes.

Common practice and by no means is it unethical.


Even if Rainey Williams is serving a similar role here (and I don't necessarily think that is the case) that is not a bad reflection on him, OG&E or anyone else.

It's a common way of handling real estate for many reasons.

[jn1780]

It's fair to say that business and individuals use all types of means to at least temporarily conceal the true ownership or longer terms plans of a real estate deal.

Remember that Continental's purchase of 20 N. Broadway was held in the name of Ford Price, Chesapeake kept changing the names of LLC's during it's crazy acquisition period, Tom Ward & family used an LLC to purchase the property at 4th & Broadway -- at least we believe they are the ones behind the LLC, we don't know for sure. And we are pretty darn sure Devon is behind Nick Preftakes.

Common practice and by no means is it unethical.


Even if Rainey Williams is serving a similar role here (and I don't necessarily think that is the case) that is not a bad reflection on him, OG&E or anyone else.

It's a common way of handling real estate for many reasons.

Yeah, it has very little to do with "taking the heat off". In these business people's view there is no support to save the Stage Center because no one ever pony up any money for it.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Wow. I have been to the OKC Museum of Art 3 times in the last month, the Fred Jones Museum twice, multiple Paseo art galleries and to two Lyric productions in the last month. I failed to see virtually any millennials at any of these venues. I wish it was otherwise, but tatoo art and bar art doesn't constitute supporting the arts. The millennials need to actually go to some of the outstanding art events we have in this city and it might help to actually create a stronger impression of support for venues like SC.

Anecdotal at best, BS at worst. Come on, Rover.

[bluedogok]

Anecdotal at best, BS at worst. Come on, Rover.

I found it to be somewhat true in Austin, typically the "older" millennials had started doing more than just going to bars and started going to more of the art venues but usually only for a specific event (usually an AIA or IIDA function) but that would usually open them up to regular visits. The younger ones were still stuck on going to a bar and seeing a band. Arts is still usually the realm of older patrons, it just takes younger people awhile to open up to them. I do agree that the millennials do want more of those options even if they aren't attending them as regularly as the older crowd.

[Spartan]

Why is everyone assuming the pedestrian plaza will be demolished?

This is the very southern edge of the site and they could easily decide to leave it as is.

In fact, I'm sure they realize this would be a good PR move and that they'll need all the good PR they can get.

I do think making California Street connect to Hudson would help make this development better.

[UnFrSaKn]

Someone wanted to know what was on the Stage Center spot before it was built...

[catcherinthewry]

But, if it is only a piece of art and an homage to a particular architect or a style of architecture long ago abandoned and dismissed, then it will be hard to get support for preserving. And those with the passion to preach for it haven't been able to fund it or convince those who can.

Well said.

[Rover]

Anecdotal at best, BS at worst. Come on, Rover.

That's a pretty funny comment because of the claim of the original statement that millenials are more concerned about the arts. As if that wasnt anecdotal, if not just a casual opinion. I will stand by my claim and still challenge the millenials to show up and to give of their resources to support the arts.

[catcherinthewry]

Anecdotal at best, BS at worst. Come on, Rover.

The same could be said of the statement Rover was responding to.

[BDP]

Wow. I have been to the OKC Museum of Art 3 times in the last month, the Fred Jones Museum twice, multiple Paseo art galleries and to two Lyric productions in the last month. I failed to see virtually any millennials at any of these venues. I wish it was otherwise, but tatoo art and bar art doesn't constitute supporting the arts. The millennials need to actually go to some of the outstanding art events we have in this city and it might help to actually create a stronger impression of support for venues like SC.

Rover is right. You will not see "millennials" at these places. Again, stage center was never really condusive to the local idea of "establishment" arts like the places Rover references are, and is why it could never survive in a city like this, or most cities, in the location where it was built. It was always way too high profile for its intended use. Oklahoma City has and will always have treasured local arts, it just won't be at this location or in the unique setting that it offered. Part of what made it different was that it was a great place for local talent to showcase its ability in a unique setting in the heart of a city. That's extremely rare and it now seems like gross hubris for a town like OKC to think it could do what the biggest of cities have trouble doing. We can't be expected to reach beyond a standard unachievable by greater peers.

I understand that my experiences at Stage Center were not only unique to OKC, but unique to most art communities. Usually, local art is economically and feasibly forced out of city centers, or at least out of the mainstream art centers. Stage Center was a facility that tried to go against that trend and unsurprisingly failed. It's unfortunate that so many people, even those that are active consumers of local art like Rover, never got to experience stage center as an innovative local theater facility, art museum, music venue, and gallery. Obviously, I can't convince anyone who never experienced it those ways that it excelled in all those capacities, but I saw it do all of that. So, I guess I can just count myself lucky that I got to see it that way and wait for the next amazing performed of Hedwig or the next production of Surburbia, or the next Momentum, or the next locally organized tribute to Prince that will inevitably take place in OKC and be well attended by "millennials" or whatever the next buzz word is for young creative individuals, knowing that it will just not be held in a high profile or center piece venue like a stage center.

And maybe that's okay. Bigger communities than ours usually cant pull that off. Not having a Stage Center will not prevent that from happening. It just means that it will happen in a far less descript setting like most everywhere else. Stage Center was a unique place because it offered the unexpected setting for the unexpected production in a city that was not expected to offer such efforts. Removing Stage Center from Oklahoma City's landscape will not prevent the works that were displayed there from being produced in Oklahoma City, it will just end Oklahoma City's potential ability from presenting those works in a way that cities twice its size wish they could do. We will, as intended and so desired, be more like somewhere else.

[Rover]

Bigger more sophisticated cities have never been jealous of us having this structure.

[soonerguru]

It sounds like some of the folks on this forum can't wait to get out the gasoline and torches and do away with this building in a drunken arson orgy. Strange.

[CuatrodeMayo]

The same could be said of the statement Rover was responding to.

Absolutely agree.