OG&E Tower

[Urbanized]

For the same reason they are assuming the tower will be 20 stories.

[OKCTalker]

Steve had some choice words to say on Twitter Thursday night after the JR story went out about someone "burning him" and about how his competition had "sketchy, bad info". It seems that there was some behind the scenes drama involving the leaking/sourcing of info on the Stage Center tower. I'd love to know the gory details, but only because I'm nosy.

I didn't follow the JR's reporting other than what was in front of their pay wall, but I DO know that smart people give information simultaneously to the DO and JR in order to avoid accusations of favoritism and being blacked out. Minor stories: Issue releases via email. Major stories: Give a head-up on the date/time of the release, and where a principal will be available for an interview at that time.

[Teo9969]

Lol!!!

[MikeLucky]

I hope they find a way to keep it at that location. Having the OCFOA anywhere but that location doesn't sem right. The thought almost frustrates me.

This seems strangely unreasonable. lol.

This board cracks me up sometimes... first everyone spends 2 1/2 years speculating. During that time even some poeple got MAD about the speculation. It was to the point that people wanted some sort of word... didn't even care what the word was, just NEEDED TO HEAR SOMETHING OR WE'RE GONNA DIE type needing...

Then we finally get the first real, official word of the new tower and now it's all "save stage center" and "if it's ONLY going to be 20 stories then don't even bother."

People crack me up.

[Bellaboo]

This seems strangely unreasonable. lol.

This board cracks me up sometimes... first everyone spends 2 1/2 years speculating. During that time even some poeple got MAD about the speculation. It was to the point that people wanted some sort of word... didn't even care what the word was, just NEEDED TO HEAR SOMETHING OR WE'RE GONNA DIE type needing...

Then we finally get the first real, official word of the new tower and now it's all "save stage center" and "if it's ONLY going to be 20 stories then don't even bother."

People crack me up.

I read this thread for the last few days and it's like a mob scene.....back and forth like no other.....amazing.

[Rover]

I think some people just have a need to be upset at something.

The thought that SC was in jeopardy is not new. A once again renewed emphasis on finding use and funding was engaged in a year or so ago. Calls for proposals were made. Everything was in play. Nothing legitimately funded was uncovered. The demise of SC has been a real issue for some time, yet I have heard of no concerted or successful fund raising efforts by architects, preservationists, friends of the SC, or anyone else...not just for a use, but even for the acquisition. Everyone seems to want someone else to go raise a boatload of money to take care of the issue. And now that a "better use" is being offered for the site, we are again confronted with the demolition. Not a surprise. But, where are the legitimate PLANS and ACTIONS to actually save and do something with this structure?

Please don't take this as an endorsement of tearing it down...I actually think it is worth preserving. But, if it is only a piece of art and an homage to a particular architect or a style of architecture long ago abandoned and dismissed, then it will be hard to get support for preserving. And those with the passion to preach for it haven't been able to fund it or convince those who can.

Tick tock.

[Pete]

The reality of this situation is starting to settle in as we have moved from the conceptual idea of it being demolished to knowing it's going to happen, and likely soon.


I'm sure once we see the plans people will start to think it terms of moving forward.

[Of Sound Mind]

this seems strangely unreasonable. Lol.

This board cracks me up sometimes... First everyone spends 2 1/2 years speculating. During that time even some poeple got mad about the speculation. It was to the point that people wanted some sort of word... Didn't even care what the word was, just needed to hear something or we're gonna die type needing...

Then we finally get the first real, official word of the new tower and now it's all "save stage center" and "if it's only going to be 20 stories then don't even bother."

people crack me up.

i read this thread for the last few days and it's like a mob scene.....back and forth like no other.....amazing.

i think some people just have a need to be upset at something.

The thought that sc was in jeopardy is not new. A once again renewed emphasis on finding use and funding was engaged in a year or so ago. Calls for proposals were made. Everything was in play. Nothing legitimately funded was uncovered. The demise of sc has been a real issue for some time, yet i have heard of no concerted or successful fund raising efforts by architects, preservationists, friends of the sc, or anyone else...not just for a use, but even for the acquisition. Everyone seems to want someone else to go raise a boatload of money to take care of the issue. And now that a "better use" is being offered for the site, we are again confronted with the demolition. Not a surprise. But, where are the legitimate plans and actions to actually save and do something with this structure?

Please don't take this as an endorsement of tearing it down...i actually think it is worth preserving. But, if it is only a piece of art and an homage to a particular architect or a style of architecture long ago abandoned and dismissed, then it will be hard to get support for preserving. And those with the passion to preach for it haven't been able to fund it or convince those who can.

Tick tock.

Amen! Amen! And AMEN!

[Pete]

I predict that once tower plans are solidified and presented for design review, that the opposition to demolition will not find much traction and approvals will come pretty quickly.

Probably much more quickly and smoothly than the SandRidge demolitions.

[G.Walker]

I think one of 3 scencarios are going to happen re new tower:

1) OG&E is anchor tenant, but the Enogex/Centerpoint MLP will locate all operations in Houston, resulting in the tower being 25 stories, with OG&E taking up 20, and leaving 5 for a smaller energy company.

2) OG&E is anchor tenant, but the Enogex/Centerpoint MLP is headquarted in Houston, but does have some operations here, resulting in the tower being 30 stories.

3) OG&E is anchor tenant, and Enogex/Centerpoing MLP is headquarted here, resulting in the tower being 40 stories, as originally thought.

*or none of this happens and we all wake up and it was just a dream, lol.

[BDP]

I think some people just have a need to be upset at something.

The thought that SC was in jeopardy is not new. A once again renewed emphasis on finding use and funding was engaged in a year or so ago. Calls for proposals were made. Everything was in play. Nothing legitimately funded was uncovered. The demise of SC has been a real issue for some time, yet I have heard of no concerted or successful fund raising efforts by architects, preservationists, friends of the SC, or anyone else...not just for a use, but even for the acquisition. Everyone seems to want someone else to go raise a boatload of money to take care of the issue. And now that a "better use" is being offered for the site, we are again confronted with the demolition. Not a surprise. But, where are the legitimate PLANS and ACTIONS to actually save and do something with this structure?

Please don't take this as an endorsement of tearing it down...I actually think it is worth preserving. But, if it is only a piece of art and an homage to a particular architect or a style of architecture long ago abandoned and dismissed, then it will be hard to get support for preserving. And those with the passion to preach for it haven't been able to fund it or convince those who can.

Tick tock.

Exactly. The reality is that it was in jeopardy the day it opened. It was built in the wrong place in the wrong city.

[catch22]

This seems strangely unreasonable. lol.

This board cracks me up sometimes... first everyone spends 2 1/2 years speculating. During that time even some poeple got MAD about the speculation. It was to the point that people wanted some sort of word... didn't even care what the word was, just NEEDED TO HEAR SOMETHING OR WE'RE GONNA DIE type needing...

Then we finally get the first real, official word of the new tower and now it's all "save stage center" and "if it's ONLY going to be 20 stories then don't even bother."

People crack me up.

I am certainly not at the forefront of saving it. It's time has come, it has to go. At the same time this place is very nostalgic to me and does hold a special place in my heart. I have very many memories at the OCFOA growing up, always thought the SC was very cool. Reminded me of Gotham City, somehow. A very troubling time growing up, and looking back I had many good memories there. In that sense it does frustrate me to see it go, because that section of downtown always comforts me when I pass by, because I see those memories again.

I was also referencing the FOA and not really the Stage Center as much. I'd love to see the FOA remain there, would be an awesome setting nestled behind this new tower, the Myriad Gardens, and Devon.

[Praedura]

I think one of 3 scencarios are going to happen re new tower:

1) OG&E is anchor tenant, but the Enogex/Centerpoint MLP will locate all operations in Houston, resulting in the tower being 25 stories, with OG&E taking up 20, and leaving 5 for a smaller energy company.

2) OG&E is anchor tenant, but the Enogex/Centerpoint MLP is headquarted in Houston, but does have some operations here, resulting in the tower being 30 stories.

3) OG&E is anchor tenant, and Enogex/Centerpoing MLP is headquarted here, resulting in the tower being 40 stories, as originally thought.

*or none of this happens and we all wake up and it was just a dream, lol.

I think that if the MLP HQ goes to OKC, then they are the anchor tenant and OG&E builds a separate new tower for themselves (also my favorite scenario).

I also think that the SC tower will have multiple tenants leasing space there, regardless of which scenario plays out. In the case of the MLP becoming the anchor, then that extra space is available for future expansion.

[edcrunk]

[B]"There's no money for the Stage Center!"

But there's always money for sports, always money in "incentives", there's always money - it's what you choose to spend it on.

Yes, but sports has paid us back in a variety of measurable ways....

[MikeLucky]

Yes, but sports has paid us back in a variety of measurable ways....

Verily, verily I say... Ed of the house of crunk speaketh the truth.

[BDP]

Yes, but sports has paid us back in a variety of measurable ways....

So has art. It's really just on a different scale. Even completely saving Stage Center would be a fraction of what has been spent on Gaylord Memorial, the Arena, and the Bricktown Ballpark alone. The Thunder would not be here without subsidy. We know that. OU football thrives on generous donations made every year.

A community theater does not generate nearly the economic impact of those venues do, but bringing it back to life and operating it would not cost as much as those venues do. But let's not pretend that art events and facilities do not generate tourism or tax revenue or that it's not part of the "quality of life" indices that factor into the type of worker base a city can attract for corporate employers. I know it takes a lot of public assistance to make large scale art programs work, but, obviously, so does large scale sports.

Don't get me wrong. I am an OU and thunder season ticket holder. I just like art too and don't see its contribution to the community or quality life or even tax revenue as insignificant, it's just of a different nature and scale.

[Jim Kyle]

A community theater does not generate nearly the economic impact of those venues do, but bringing it back to life and operating it would not cost as much as those venues do.

Isn't that what Lyric Theater is all about? Granted, it's not downtown -- but for the arts, that's often an advantage rather than a drawback...

[bchris02]

Millennials have a much greater appreciation for the arts than most other recent generations. The cities they want to live in are cities with a vibrant arts culture. OKC would be unwise to ignore this fact.

Wouldn't the Stage Center be cool as an art museum?

[bluedogok]

I honestly think this project was not ready to be announced. But with the sale of such a controversial piece of property, and it being public information, it could not be kept a secret any longer. Rainey Williams had to say something to let the public know, and probably somewhat pressured in making comments on the plans. With the announcement being so vague, a lot is still up in the air, I would rather have waited another 90 days for more solid information. It's easy to take shots at the developer without seeing finished plans, so let's give Mr. Williams the benefit of the doubt and see what he comes up with before we are so quick to write off his development.

I am hearing that this tower has absolutely everything to do with OG&E and that the way this is being handled through Rainey Williams (board member of Enogex) has everything to do with deflecting controversy about this site. This doesn't necessarily mean Williams is not going to be the developer or lead investor in the development, just that all of this is a direct product of negotiations with OG&E.


It seems the main issue revolves around where the Enogex/CenterPoint entity will be located.

If it comes to OKC, they it will almost certainly go in the Stage Center Tower.

If it doesn't, OG&E will almost certainly go in this tower; they may still choose to go in even if E/C is a tenant also. OR they may build a separate tower for their own HQ.


My sources are from the economic development side who are involved with the various negotiations and incentives.

I'm pretty darn confident in my information.

I kind of feel the same way, Rainey Williams is the "point man" to run interference for OG+E/Enogex/Centerpoint and to take the heat off of them for the demolition of Stage Center. It was done now to get the pump primed so to speak, it wouldn't be the first time this has happened, I have seen it happen before and the project was turned over to a developer after the hurdles had been cleared.

[Snowman]

So has art. It's really just on a different scale. Even completely saving Stage Center would be a fraction of what has been spent on Gaylord Memorial, the Arena, and the Bricktown Ballpark alone. The Thunder would not be here without subsidy. We know that. OU football thrives on generous donations made every year.

A community theater does not generate nearly the economic impact of those venues do, but bringing it back to life and operating it would not cost as much as those venues do. But let's not pretend that art events and facilities do not generate tourism or tax revenue or that it's not part of the "quality of life" indices that factor into the type of worker base a city can attract for corporate employers. I know it takes a lot of public assistance to make large scale art programs work, but, obviously, so does large scale sports.

Don't get me wrong. I am an OU and thunder season ticket holder. I just like art too and don't see its contribution to the community or quality life or even tax revenue as insignificant, it's just of a different nature and scale.

The building was apparently not doing a lot of favors to the arts community either. Several have stated that it was not fitted well for the types of shows they or the touring acts did and was somewhat inflexible, plus both in building and renovation it bit the biger donors on each of the larger drives. First by insulting people for not being happy about a controversial design they did not like and second by flooding again a few years after repairs were made. A drawback of one off designs that are trying a new approach is that is where you tend find problems, many of the most well known structures were not the first of their style but a high point in the refinement of that style, often in a popular or at least be heavily traveled location

[G.Walker]

I think that if the MLP HQ goes to OKC, then they are the anchor tenant and OG&E builds a separate new tower for themselves (also my favorite scenario).

I also think that the SC tower will have multiple tenants leasing space there, regardless of which scenario plays out. In the case of the MLP becoming the anchor, then that extra space is available for future expansion.

Could it be that we are in direct competition with Houston to see who comes up with best proposal and incentive package? I might note that Hines is developing a 40+ story office tower right now in downtown Houston, and are currently looking for tenants, moreover, they have expanded the size of the tower and fast tracked to start construction, without any tenants signed to date. If so, Rainey Williams needs to get on the ball, because Hines is moving quickly:

Houston's next great skyscraper? Hines to Texas size new office tower - CultureMap Houston

[bluedogok]

Maybe Hines would be in line to develop the Stage Center Tower as well.

[Rover]

Isn't that what Lyric Theater is all about? Granted, it's not downtown -- but for the arts, that's often an advantage rather than a drawback...

Lyric is downtown...at the Civic Center (rebuilt with Maps money), and the smaller plays at the Plaza.

[G.Walker]

Maybe Hines would be in line to develop the Stage Center Tower as well.

That is a possibility, if Hines was involved then we know it will be top of the line!

[SoonerDave]

Millennials have a much greater appreciation for the arts than most other recent generations. The cities they want to live in are cities with a vibrant arts culture. OKC would be unwise to ignore this fact.

Wouldn't the Stage Center be cool as an art museum?

I can only imagine how all those great works of art would look after the damage inflicted by the inevitable next flood or roof collapse or corresponding disaster to befall the place...