Big retailer is eyeing OKC & Tulsa

[bchris02]

Actually, i have discussed this and other things with them repeatedly. They are actually not idiots, they are nice and smart people, but they are in the Wal-Mart rut and they're not getting out any time soon. Also, they seem to think that Sam's Club is better for some reason?

That's like my family. They also think Sam's Club is different than Wal-Mart but I tell them they are the same thing.

It reminds me of the Southpark episode. "We all don't like Wal-Mart but we can't stop shopping here."

Wal-Mart really isn't that much cheaper on groceries. I think what really draws people in is its one-stop shopping.

[mugofbeer]

it depends on the grocery store you are comparing it to. I've done comparisons and in many things, they are as much as 20% cheaper when measuring apples to apples. Sorry for all the Wal Mart bashers but the fact is, they ARE cheaper on most things and to people on a very thin budget, it makes a difference. If you can afford the more expensive place, by all means, shop where you want.

[Just the facts]

it depends on the grocery store you are comparing it to. I've done comparisons and in many things, they are as much as 20% cheaper when measuring apples to apples. Sorry for all the Wal Mart bashers but the fact is, they ARE cheaper on most things and to people on a very thin budget, it makes a difference. If you can afford the more expensive place, by all means, shop where you want.

Of course they are cheaper - the taxpayers are picking up half of the compensation costs. That is the whole point behind the documentary. The low prices come at a high cost. Walmart pays just low enough so that their employees qualify for federal assitance, and they make sure those employees apply for all the government benefits they can. If Walmart employees had to live just on the income provided by working at Walmart they couldn't do it.

[zookeeper]

Of course they are cheaper - the taxpayers are picking up half of the compensation costs. That is the whole point behind the documentary. Walmart pays just low enough so that their employees qualify for federal assitance, and they make sure those employees apply for all the government benefits they can. If Walmart employees had to live just on the income provided by working at Walmart they couldn't do it.

Yes, it's sad when federal assistance to your employees is part of your business plan. You're also right that it means taxpayers are basically subsidizing WalMart's payroll.

[soonerguru]

Of course they are cheaper - the taxpayers are picking up half of the compensation costs. That is the whole point behind the documentary. The low prices come at a high cost. Walmart pays just low enough so that their employees qualify for federal assitance, and they make sure those employees apply for all the government benefits they can. If Walmart employees had to live just on the income provided by working at Walmart they couldn't do it.

And by contrast, look at Costco. They pay their people a solid living wage and give them super benefits, so their employees don't have to use federal assistance. Yet, Costco offers good bargains for consumers and is a very profitable company. Hmmm. What's wrong with this picture?

[zookeeper]

And by contrast, look at Costco. They pay their people a solid living wage and give them super benefits, so their employees don't have to use federal assistance. Yet, Costco offers good bargains for consumers and is a very profitable company. Hmmm. What's wrong with this picture?

Someone linked to this once and I bookmarked it. It blows the mind to really think about this. I don't agree with much of Mother Jones, but they are always good on this wealth concentration stuff. http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012...-million-years

[mugofbeer]

Someone linked to this once and I bookmarked it. It blows the mind to really think about this.

COSTCO doesn't provide anywhere remotely close to the variety of products Wal Mart does. If you can hold your product offering to, say 500 items plus special purchases, rather than 10,000 items, COSTCO CAN be more profitable. COSTCO also keeps concrete floors and often displays out of boxes, has far fewer locations and charges a membership fee for anyone to use the stores. There are major differences in the two which makes comparison pretty remote. Target and K-Mart are far better comparisons to Wal Mart

[mugofbeer]

Of course they are cheaper - the taxpayers are picking up half of the compensation costs. That is the whole point behind the documentary. The low prices come at a high cost. Walmart pays just low enough so that their employees qualify for federal assitance, and they make sure those employees apply for all the government benefits they can. If Walmart employees had to live just on the income provided by working at Walmart they couldn't do it.

OK. I'm not arguing any of your points. Don't shop there if you don't like them. They are the savior to a great many people who rely on their pricing. Want a little nicer store and pay a little more, shop at Target. Wal Mart isn't going to go out of business.

[bluedogok]

I've known quite a few who work/worked for Walmart at the store and corporate levels, in the stores the base pay is as crappy as most other retail places, no retail pays high wages out of the gate. Most who move up get paid pretty well (for retail), yes others may pay better but if you move up you aren't still making "poverty level" wages. I'm sure their attitude is based on the fact they also have a ton of people who are worthless as employees so why pay them a high wage if they are only going to be around a few months as turnover is pretty high for the country's largest employer. So at best it may be a "weeding out process" to find out who is worth paying and who is worth sending along their merry way. At the corporate level Walmart pays pretty well beyond the base entry level, especially in more specialty roles.

[soonerguru]

COSTCO doesn't provide anywhere remotely close to the variety of products Wal Mart does. If you can hold your product offering to, say 500 items plus special purchases, rather than 10,000 items, COSTCO CAN be more profitable. COSTCO also keeps concrete floors and often displays out of boxes, has far fewer locations and charges a membership fee for anyone to use the stores. There are major differences in the two which makes comparison pretty remote. Target and K-Mart are far better comparisons to Wal Mart

The point is it is possible to pay your employees a living wage, offer consumer products at good prices, and still remain profitable. Wal-Mart obviously doesn't care about offering its employees a living wage, which is one of many reasons I do not support it.

[mugofbeer]

The point is it is possible to pay your employees a living wage, offer consumer products at good prices, and still remain profitable. Wal-Mart obviously doesn't care about offering its employees a living wage, which is one of many reasons I do not support it.

I think it's fine if people don't want to support the stores. I don't choose to shop at Dollar Tree or Goodwill stores for various reasons. I just find it ironic that so many people disparage the company when you hear relatively few of the employees who have a problem with it. As with any large company, you will find some who are critics so don't roll out the video's from the recent unionization attempts (which seem to have failed, by the way). My experience with Wal Mart is to find employees there eager to smile and chat and seemingly happy. There are some places in the world that simply aren't meant to be the sole source of career income for workers. If Wal Mart started having trouble finding employees or if their sales truly started hurting, they would make adjustments.

[bchris02]

I think it's fine if people don't want to support the stores. I don't choose to shop at Dollar Tree or Goodwill stores for various reasons. I just find it ironic that so many people disparage the company when you hear relatively few of the employees who have a problem with it. As with any large company, you will find some who are critics so don't roll out the video's from the recent unionization attempts (which seem to have failed, by the way). My experience with Wal Mart is to find employees there eager to smile and chat and seemingly happy. There are some places in the world that simply aren't meant to be the sole source of career income for workers. If Wal Mart started having trouble finding employees or if their sales truly started hurting, they would make adjustments.

I actually wasn't anti Wal-Mart until I moved to OKC. Their quality and customer service though is atrocious compared to Harris Teeter, Kroger, Publix, etc. When you are used to having these other options and are accustomed to that standard, heaving to shop at Wal-Mart can take some getting used to. Also, as I said OKC Wal-Marts are very understaffed and poorly stocked compared to Wal-Mart in other places where they have competition. Wal-Mart ran all the competition out of OKC and are now providing a horrible product here.

[bluedogok]

There are other options than Walmart, even in OKC. They may not be as close as Walmart but that shouldn't mean much if you are a Walmart hater, you can live without going to a Walmart business. When I lived there I rarely shopped at Walmart, since I lived by Baptist Hospital I usually shopped at Buy For Less at NW Expressway & Portland. I went to Walmart maybe once every three months but I went to Sam's much more often than Walmart.

[PhiAlpha]

I actually wasn't anti Wal-Mart until I moved to OKC. Their quality and customer service though is atrocious compared to Harris Teeter, Kroger, Publix, etc. When you are used to having these other options and are accustomed to that standard, heaving to shop at Wal-Mart can take some getting used to. Also, as I said OKC Wal-Marts are very understaffed and poorly stocked compared to Wal-Mart in other places where they have competition. Wal-Mart ran all the competition out of OKC and are now providing a horrible product here.

I live downtown, almost never shop at wal-mart, and never find myself that inconvenienced by it. I'm also not confronted with the disgust you are if I have to drive by one of them on the way to homeland, sprouts, sunflower market, whole foods, buy for less, Akins natural foods, target, or if I'm in Edmond, uptown grocery. We could always use more options, but its not like we are devoid of anything other than Walmart. If you don't like it, don't shop there, no one is forcing it upon you.

[adaniel]

I live downtown, almost never shop at wal-mart, and never find myself that inconvenienced by it. I'm also not confronted with the disgust you are if I have to drive by one of them on the way to homeland, sprouts, sunflower market, whole foods, buy for less, Akins natural foods, target, or if I'm in Edmond, uptown grocery. We could always use more options, but its not like we are devoid of anything other than Walmart. If you don't like it, don't shop there, no one is forcing it upon you.

Don't forget Native Roots, Forward Foods, Kamps Meat Market, etc.

I live in Midtown and can't remember the last time I went into a Walmart for food. Heck, the only time I've been in Walmart the past 6 months was to buy some socks!

I agree that OKC's grocery scene needs some work, but to act as if its some wasteland with nothing but Wal Marts is completely inaccurate. There are quality options here, it just may not come from chains everyone is familiar with.

[PhiAlpha]

Don't forget Native Roots, Forward Foods, Kamps Meat Market, etc.

I live in Midtown and can't remember the last time I went into a Walmart for food. Heck, the only time I've been in Walmart the past 6 months was to buy some socks!

I agree that OKC's grocery scene needs some work, but to act as if its some wasteland with nothing but Wal Marts is completely inaccurate. There are quality options here, it just may not come from chains everyone is familiar with.

I was going to mention Native Roots, but blanked out and forgot the name. Thanks for adding it in.

[zookeeper]

I was going to mention Native Roots, but blanked out and forgot the name. Thanks for adding it in.

There's got to be something about this store's name. It's a great name when you really think about it, but for whatever reason I am always having trouble remembering its name as well.

[adaniel]

I love the name! Like eating fresh, local food that is "native" is true to our "roots" as people.

I have been frequenting it more; their cuts of beef are second to none. I hope they can hang on; last time I was there it was actually somewhat busy.

[betts]

They're about to get a big boost in population in the neighborhood. Mosaic has been started. The facade on the Maywood Apartments is in progress which should mean they're working inside.. We have 3 new neighbors moving in very soon. There are people out on the streets constantly these days. I'm hoping they'll be fine.

[SoonerDave]

I actually wasn't anti Wal-Mart until I moved to OKC. Their quality and customer service though is atrocious compared to Harris Teeter, Kroger, Publix, etc. When you are used to having these other options and are accustomed to that standard, heaving to shop at Wal-Mart can take some getting used to. Also, as I said OKC Wal-Marts are very understaffed and poorly stocked compared to Wal-Mart in other places where they have competition. Wal-Mart ran all the competition out of OKC and are now providing a horrible product here.

bchris,

I tried to do this with a degree of humor before, but now it's just getting tiring. I guess you continue to repeat the same wrong information because there's a hope it will either a) become true because of the unyielding repetition, or b) people will believe it in spite of its factual inaccuracy merely because of the unyielding repetition. Hopefully it's not because you're just trolling.

So let's try it again.

WAL MART DOES NOT HAVE A MONOPOLY ON OKLAHOMA CITY GROCERY.

Stop saying they do. It's wrong. No matter how many times you say it, IT ISN'T TRUE.

If you don't like WalMart, hey, I'm all there with you. I don't particularly care for them myself.

And that's why I don't buy my groceries there, BECAUSE I HAVE ALTERNATIVES.

Most of the time, I go to Crest. Sometimes, albeit rarely, I go to Homeland. Sometimes, I go to one of the several Aldi's in town. I also will visit the SuperTarget that is just a few minutes away from my home. All these options you blithely pretend don't exist because you say "WalMart has no competition."

If you're not willing to explore these actual, real alternatives, it isn't WalMart's fault.

[jn1780]

OKC has about the same number of grocery stores if not more than it did before Walmart entered the grocery business when it first started building supercenters.

[soonerguru]

bchris,

I tried to do this with a degree of humor before, but now it's just getting tiring. I guess you continue to repeat the same wrong information because there's a hope it will either a) become true because of the unyielding repetition, or b) people will believe it in spite of its factual inaccuracy merely because of the unyielding repetition. Hopefully it's not because you're just trolling.

So let's try it again.

WAL MART DOES NOT HAVE A MONOPOLY ON OKLAHOMA CITY GROCERY.

Stop saying they do. It's wrong. No matter how many times you say it, IT ISN'T TRUE.

If you don't like WalMart, hey, I'm all there with you. I don't particularly care for them myself.

And that's why I don't buy my groceries there, BECAUSE I HAVE ALTERNATIVES.

Most of the time, I go to Crest. Sometimes, albeit rarely, I go to Homeland. Sometimes, I go to one of the several Aldi's in town. I also will visit the SuperTarget that is just a few minutes away from my home. All these options you blithely pretend don't exist because you say "WalMart has no competition."

If you're not willing to explore these actual, real alternatives, it isn't WalMart's fault.

You are correct. But OKC has a greater number of Wal-Mart supercenters than virtually any other market. It is true their presence has scared away a lot of competing grocers. It took a Chesapeake subsidy to get Whole Foods here (and one would argue that Sunflower / Sprouts came in because Whole Foods was on the way).

So while not a monopoly, Wal-Mart's grocery presence here has certainly been outsized, and undoubtedly affected the quality of competition we would have seen here. Perhaps bchris didn't make this point as clearly, but having lived elsewhere he notes that the reason our grocery selection is below that of peer cities isn't because we suck, or lack taste, but mainly due to Wal-Mart's market share.

[bchris02]

bchris,

I tried to do this with a degree of humor before, but now it's just getting tiring. I guess you continue to repeat the same wrong information because there's a hope it will either a) become true because of the unyielding repetition, or b) people will believe it in spite of its factual inaccuracy merely because of the unyielding repetition. Hopefully it's not because you're just trolling.

So let's try it again.

WAL MART DOES NOT HAVE A MONOPOLY ON OKLAHOMA CITY GROCERY.

Stop saying they do. It's wrong. No matter how many times you say it, IT ISN'T TRUE.

If you don't like WalMart, hey, I'm all there with you. I don't particularly care for them myself.

And that's why I don't buy my groceries there, BECAUSE I HAVE ALTERNATIVES.

Most of the time, I go to Crest. Sometimes, albeit rarely, I go to Homeland. Sometimes, I go to one of the several Aldi's in town. I also will visit the SuperTarget that is just a few minutes away from my home. All these options you blithely pretend don't exist because you say "WalMart has no competition."

If you're not willing to explore these actual, real alternatives, it isn't WalMart's fault.

I've had bad luck with getting expired or nearly expired goods at both Crest on N MacArthur and Homeland. Usually I try to stick to Buy for Less on NW Expressway or Sprouts. They are usually pretty good quality stuff. I like Uptown Grocery but its a little far from me to be a real option.

[bchris02]

You are correct. But OKC has a greater number of Wal-Mart supercenters than virtually any other market. It is true their presence has scared away a lot of competing grocers. It took a Chesapeake subsidy to get Whole Foods here (and one would argue that Sunflower / Sprouts came in because Whole Foods was on the way).

So while not a monopoly, Wal-Mart's grocery presence here has certainly been outsized, and undoubtedly affected the quality of competition we would have seen here. Perhaps bchris didn't make this point as clearly, but having lived elsewhere he notes that the reason our grocery selection is below that of peer cities isn't because we suck, or lack taste, but mainly due to Wal-Mart's market share.

This.

[Jim Kyle]

For at least the past 60 years. OKC's grocery marketing situation has been an ogliarchy, not a monopoly. It's always had a limited number of major players, and most of the nationwide big chains so prominent elsewhere have avoided competing here.

In the 40s and 50s, the Goldman family was one of the biggest players. Its patriarch invented the shopping cart itself, and their Humpty Dumpty stores could be found all over the city. Their biggest competition was Safeway. However, A&P, Piggly Wiggly, and their national competitors were nowhere to be found -- or at least had so little impact that I can't remember them being here.

We did have dozens of tiny "mom and pop" groceries all over town, serving their neighborhoods with very little variety on their shelves. We also had smaller players that did manage to have supermarkets, such as the Hagees and Pratts, and major grocery distributors helped establish what appeared to be chains but were actually independents, such as IGA and Redbud.

Winn-Dixie tried to establish a presence; Grider had better success. However we've never had more than a handful of major players here, and most of them have been locally based and unknown elsewhere.

WalMart gets the blame for the loss of all those little neighborhood outlets, but I suspect that the real reason they vanished was simply the increased mobility of the population. Why walk two blocks to a place with only one or two brands of bread and no freezers, when you could drive across town to a Buchanan, Humpty, or Safeway and choose from a much bigger range? WalMart did, indeed, drive out the smaller supermarkets -- but it was greatly aided by simple aging of the people who ran them. As they retired, nobody replaced them at the helms of their enterprises.

Today, we have Buy For Less, Crest, and Homeland, in addition to the Waltons' empire, as the Big Boys together with a dozen or more smaller outlets. We have 7-11 and Circle K taking the places of those neighborhood outlets. The more things change, the more they remain the same...