Soccer: NASL and USL professional leagues fighting over OKC

[Laramie]

but there is no longer a Timbers in a lower league, right? Were just confirming what I posted?

Confirm what you posted? If that is the way you read my post. My clarification on this is that the Portland Timbers who were in the USL-Pro no longer exists--does that confirm your post.

My understanding of what you were saying is that the players on the team moved up to the MLS because of their success in the USL-Pro.

My objection was to your previous statement about OKC having a better chance to reach the MLS via the ULS-Pro vs. the NASL was my argument. The NASL is considered the next best thing to the MLS; San Antonio is going to have a better chance getting an MLS franchise with success in the NASL--correct me if I'm wrong. I don't claim to know all the ends and out of soccer hierarchy.

I believe we're on the same page. To me, the NASL appears to be more attractive than the USL-Pro.

[bradh]

We are, I knew that the Timbers didn't just move up promotion style.

In regards to NASL/USL, I had heard that NASL was trying to be a competing league to MLS. To me, that seems like a USFL vs. NFL type thing. I thought USL was more of a AAA type league to MLS, where young guys whose next step is MLS would play.

[Laramie]

I understand that the USL-Pro is trying to work out some type of alignment with the MLS; some teams are already there. My understanding is that the NASL isn't trying to compete directly with the MLS; they are trying to re-establish the old NASL which went defunct after 1984 and learn from their mistakes--much of which had to do with not having a salary cap.

There is a lot of information on BIG SOCCER BOARDS which has a ton of leagues (international) and a huge viewing base.

The stadium project by the Funk group could be a game changer. I truely believe that Funk Sr., made a big mistake when he was ready to put down a $10 million franchise fee for the MLS and UCO was on board with expanding Wantland Stadium to 25,000. Funk later purchased the Oklahoma Redhawks.

[bradh]

my God, bigsoccer forums are so incredibly hard to navigate and read, i almost have a seizure when i go over there

[Laramie]

my God, bigsoccer forums are so incredibly hard to navigate and read, i almost have a seizure when i go over there

You are correct! LOL... ...and there are some knowledgeable people on there who will blow your mind--now you know what happened to me!

[Lord Helmet]

The NASL is considered the next best thing to the MLS; San Antonio is going to have a better chance getting an MLS franchise with success in the NASL--correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct in your assumption, though success doesn't always = a promotion to MLS. MLS just awarded New York a second franchise, and David Beckham is close to announcing that he will own an MLS team in Miami.

[Laramie]

You are correct in your assumption, though success doesn't always = a promotion to MLS. MLS just awarded New York a second franchise, and David Beckham is close to announcing that he will own an MLS team in Miami.

I do know this; money talks with sports franchises. New York a second team... NASL's Fort Lauderdale team had some concerns about Miami getting a team.

The NASL will have to hasten its expansion and get into markets like Wichita, Tulsa, Austin, Albuquerque and Omaha.

[BoulderSooner]

I do know this; money talks with sports franchises. New York a second team... NASL's Fort Lauderdale team had some concerns about Miami getting a team.

The NASL will have to hasten its expansion and get into markets like Wichita, Tulsa, Austin, Albuquerque and Omaha.

what the nasl does is really not a concern of the mls .... and market that has NASL that gets a MLS invite will say yes in a heart beat ..

[Lord Helmet]

I do know this; money talks with sports franchises. New York a second team... NASL's Fort Lauderdale team had some concerns about Miami getting a team.

The NASL will have to hasten its expansion and get into markets like Wichita, Tulsa, Austin, Albuquerque and Omaha.

As an aside....the NYC market is saturated. With the NY Red Bulls, New York City FC, and the NASL's NY Cosmos all active next season.

[Fantastic]

As an aside....the NYC market is saturated. With the NY Red Bulls, New York City FC, and the NASL's NY Cosmos all active next season.

3 teams in a metropolitan statistical area of nearly 20 million people hardly constitutes saturation

[bluedogok]

3 teams in a metropolitan statistical area of nearly 20 million people hardly constitutes saturation

Especially with a large immigrant population where soccer is their primary sport.

[bradh]

On the flip side look at LA, where two teams there has definitely NOT worked

[Laramie]

Los Angeles like OKC is spread out and it takes time for fanchises to build a base. Look how long it took the NHL's Los Angeles Kings to finally make their imprint...

The population base for soccer in LA is there probably five times over.

[bradh]

Well, we can also blame the lack of success of Chivas USA on their management and attitude.

[HangryHippo]

Why is there such bad blood between Funk Jr. and Lund?

[Laramie]

hopefully the stadium will be built close to downtown .. maybe somewhere close to the river

Right now Fair Park has the parking and utilities (in place ) necessary to lower the costs of building a stadium. The site of the old Grand Stands would be ideal.

Fair Park encompasses 400 acres; Knoxville's World Fair was on a track of land less than 70 acres. We have plenty of room for growth and the skyline is within view.

Why is there such bad blood between Funk Jr. and Lund?

I'm not sure? There is a saying that centers around 'the worst enemy is one who was once your friend.'

[Lord Helmet]

NASL has approved the expansion sides for both OKC and Jacksonville:

NASL Board of Governors Unanimously Approves Expansion To Jacksonville And Oklahoma City | North American Soccer League

[CaptDave]

On a side note to this - does anyone else hate the Major League Soccer label given to our highest level league? I would prefer North American Premiere League or NASL to be what out first tier was called. USL, etc is great for the lower division leagues but I think MLS tried a bit too hard to appeal to the "traditional" American sports fan.

And don't start me on relegation, the playoff format, or some of the NFL'esque team names. Call me a purist, but that is my $.02. But I enjoy going to an occasional FC Dallas (see how much better than 'Dallas Burn' that is) match and am glad the league has survived some lean times and seems to be growing and stable.

[boitoirich]

CaptDave, you purist.

Actually those names and the structure probably hurts MLS more than it helps. By divorcing itself everything unique about soccer (names, table, pro/rel) to appeal to the masses invites comparison to the Big 4. The MLS should stand apart. This is one reason I like Oklahoma City FC -- it's not the most creative name, but it's better than the alternative.

[bradh]

Houston tried to have a cool purist sounding name, Houston 1836 (still have the shirt in my closet), but Latino groups in Houston threw a **** fit and thus you got the Houston Dynamo.

If you're complaining about the name MLS, I think you're just looking for something to complain about. Not saying this is you guys, but I can not stand American soccer fans who feel they are too good to watch MLS. IMO, they are part of the problem, not embracing our national professional league and helping it grow. If you look at where it is today compared to a decade ago, you can not argue that it's headed in the right direction.

[CaptDave]

There are definitely those who behave in that manner. People who really enjoy the game can look past some of the kind of silly things I mentioned. When the league was started those things were probably necessary to capture enough interest and following to get MLS past its infancy. Several teams have dumped the silly nicknames and adopted more traditional/purist names. But my favorite team still has the nickname and it doesn't stop me from enjoying watching them play. There were some lean times when it seemed every year a franchise or two folded but then Beckham happened and the quality of American players began to show on the international stage. While not top tier like La Liga or EPL, it is pretty good for its age relative to the older established leagues around the world. Overall MLS has succeeded beyond many people's expectations and some smart payroll and franchise structuring has prevented the irrational exuberance that eventually killed the original NASL. But it is great OKC is finally joining the ranks of cities with professional soccer and I am looking forward to going to some games in our team's stadium in the next few years.

[bradh]

Agreed. I for one enjoy watching MLS soccer, and there are some great rivalries. We are right in between one of them, as Houston & KC are two of the top teams and it's a good competitive rivalry based on close matches and hard play (not some manufactured rivalry or regional rivalry).

[BoulderSooner]

There are definitely those who behave in that manner. People who really enjoy the game can look past some of the kind of silly things I mentioned. When the league was started those things were probably necessary to capture enough interest and following to get MLS past its infancy. Several teams have dumped the silly nicknames and adopted more traditional/purist names. But my favorite team still has the nickname and it doesn't stop me from enjoying watching them play. There were some lean times when it seemed every year a franchise or two folded but then Beckham happened and the quality of American players began to show on the international stage. While not top tier like La Liga or EPL, it is pretty good for its age relative to the older established leagues around the world. Overall MLS has succeeded beyond many people's expectations and some smart payroll and franchise structuring has prevented the irrational exuberance that eventually killed the original NASL. But it is great OKC is finally joining the ranks of cities with professional soccer and I am looking forward to going to some games in our team's stadium in the next few years.

so traditional ... do we have the Chase NFL ... or the Target NBA ..

Arsenal? crystal palace? queens park rangers ?

[tehlazerviking]

Chivas USA attendance has nothing to do with the city they play in and everything to do with a horribly run front office built upon racist principals that has alienated all but 6,000 of it's most hardcore fans. They came in trying to bring "Mexican-style futbol" to the gringos and it failed miserably (see last weeks episode of Real Sports on HBO if you want to follow the rabbit hole). They alienated the white fans looking to get away from the Beckham show. They alienated MOST of the Mexican fans by naming the team Chivas (would you root for the London Cowboys if you were an expat living in England? Probably not because there are fans of 33 other NFL teams).

Basically Chivas USA was brought in to the league shortly after MLS had folded to clubs in Florida and were willing to take the money no matter where it was coming from. The league now is in a very stable place and is kicking themselves every single day for committing to what was essentially a cash-grab.

On a different topic the level of NASL and USLPro really vary from team to team. Orlando City Lions just beat two MLS teams in the Lamar Hunt US Open Cup and play withing the USL. NASL is sanctioned higher than USL only because the USSF deemed it so a few years back. Both were fighting for the second division spot and neither were worthy of it. It's a really long story, but NASL won out.

/soapbox

[Lord Helmet]

On a side note to this - does anyone else hate the Major League Soccer label given to our highest level league? I would prefer North American Premiere League or NASL to be what out first tier was called. USL, etc is great for the lower division leagues but I think MLS tried a bit too hard to appeal to the "traditional" American sports fan.

And don't start me on relegation, the playoff format, or some of the NFL'esque team names. Call me a purist, but that is my $.02. But I enjoy going to an occasional FC Dallas (see how much better than 'Dallas Burn' that is) match and am glad the league has survived some lean times and seems to be growing and stable.

When the league was in it's anfancy I think it needed to appeal to the traditional American fan. Now not so much but the league name, and some of the team names are aresult of that. The only real NFL type names left are New England Revolution, and Columbus Crew, Chicago Fire (which I actually don't mind), LA Galaxy, and Colorado Rapids. I have a feeling that NE will rebrand if they ever move to Boston and have their own stadium.

Some of the other names that might be considered NFL-ish are actually pretty tradition rich and will never be changed San Jose Earthquakes, Portland Timbers, and Seattle Sounders FC both date back to the old NASL days, and Vancouver Whitecaps FC has been around since the 80's playing in the American 2nd division, Montreal Impact have been around since `92.

Is for promotion and relegation...I'm not convinced that it would work here. I'd be willing to get rid of the playoffs, but only if we could have balanced fixtures, which isn't happening with expansion etc.