OU Projects

[TAlan CB]

Visited family that live next to Texas A&M. Last time I visited was 3 years ago - massive change. Talking to my uncle who use to teach there - and keeps up with what's going on - and he said they are undergoing a massive build up. The engr. schools are expecting to add 25,000 students in the next 5 years, growing the school from 50,000 - to 75,000. What I want to know is how all these schools are growing so much when tuition is getting to the point where people are seriously thinking about alternatives to college?

[venture]

Visited family that live next to Texas A&M. Last time I visited was 3 years ago - massive change. Talking to my uncle who use to teach there - and keeps up with what's going on - and he said they are undergoing a massive build up. The engr. schools are expecting to add 25,000 students in the next 5 years, growing the school from 50,000 - to 75,000. What I want to know is how all these schools are growing so much when tuition is getting to the point where people are seriously thinking about alternatives to college?

The only way to fix tuition is for the Fed to come in and cut back on what the max loans they will hand out are. The problem is all the school administrators look at the stafford loans as free money so they hike tuitions to get as much of it as possible. The cost for education in this country is just messed up. At some point it'll snap back and administrators will get a wake up call of "what do you mean we are only going to take in half what we did last year."

[dankrutka]

From today:

image.jpg

Headington Hall looks great. Huge presence on that corner.

[BoulderSooner]

The only way to fix tuition is for the Fed to come in and cut back on what the max loans they will hand out are. The problem is all the school administrators look at the stafford loans as free money so they hike tuitions to get as much of it as possible. The cost for education in this country is just messed up. At some point it'll snap back and administrators will get a wake up call of "what do you mean we are only going to take in half what we did last year."

well that and tuition doesn't cover the cost of school at most places

[venture]

well that and tuition doesn't cover the cost of school at most places

Then they need to start operating like most businesses and get their costs in line. If their costs are so out of control that the main source of their income can't cover the costs, they should be like any other business and forced to reorganize or go out of business.

[Snowman]

i think they are talking about removing the entire west deck .. (not just the press box) .. and rebuilding it to match the east side

I had only heard any desire of matching the seating to the other side from fans, specifically ones that were prone to knowing nothing of any details that school officials were considering.

[BoulderSooner]

Then they need to start operating like most businesses and get their costs in line. If their costs are so out of control that the main source of their income can't cover the costs, they should be like any other business and forced to reorganize or go out of business.

well there is a pretty solid thought that higher education is in the public's interest .. thus it is subsidized .. pretty much every college in America public and private is outside of just a few ..

[Rover]

Then they need to start operating like most businesses and get their costs in line. If their costs are so out of control that the main source of their income can't cover the costs, they should be like any other business and forced to reorganize or go out of business.

So, we should dumb down the schooling? Increase class size? Hire less effective and cheaper professors? Reduce academic and other support? Quit building new classrooms? No more new dorms? Quit taking care of the facilities? Don't offer counseling? Quit buying computers? Don't provide space and labs for research? Quit recruiting efforts? etc., etc., etc.

What costs do you think are out of line? Just curious.

[Dubya61]

So, we should dumb down the schooling? Increase class size? Hire less effective and cheaper professors? Reduce academic and other support? Quit building new classrooms? No more new dorms? Quit taking care of the facilities? Don't offer counseling? Quit buying computers? Don't provide space and labs for research? Quit recruiting efforts? etc., etc., etc.

What costs do you think are out of line? Just curious.

I'd be content with a much more straightforward tuition and fee scheme. IIRC, OU is toying with that very idea that would standardize the cost to a student from semester to semester and encourage a quicker completion. I have always been appalled by the Anschluss of fees you can find on your Bursar's statement -- hidden costs that only the experienced student knows to expect. Weren't you just recently stating how you wanted to see the football ticket price reduced to avoid another add-on fee? Are you not satisfied with the entertainment value as currently priced?
Irrespective of the fee issue, venture79's argument is a very well documented point that shows how a good business will raise prices based on fund availability (supply and demand) and funds have never been more government-subsidized than in the last couple of decades.

[Geographer]

venture79's argument is a very well documented point that shows how a good business will raise prices based on fund availability (supply and demand) and funds have never been more government-subsidized than in the last couple of decades.

I'll drink to that.

[venture]

So, we should dumb down the schooling? Increase class size? Hire less effective and cheaper professors? Reduce academic and other support? Quit building new classrooms? No more new dorms? Quit taking care of the facilities? Don't offer counseling? Quit buying computers? Don't provide space and labs for research? Quit recruiting efforts? etc., etc., etc.

What costs do you think are out of line? Just curious.

Who said anything about dumbing it down? The rise in tuition costs for students is pretty well noted across the board. That has also happened thanks to the government now giving students somewhere around $67,000 for their first degree and another large sum for their masters. Schools see that as easy money to go after and they do.

[Spartan]

The OU campus is starting to look really good...

[Geographer]

The OU campus is starting to look really good...

nice transition haha. My only complaint is that I wish the other Tower dorms looked like Headington Hall..it's unfortunate that the Towers were built when they were (a la Cabrini Green/Pruitt Igo) haha.

[Rover]

Who said anything about dumbing it down? The rise in tuition costs for students is pretty well noted across the board. That has also happened thanks to the government now given students somewhere around $67,000 for their first degree and another large sum for their masters. Schools see that as easy money to go after and they do.

So, I am asking you, how do the "go after it"....by trying to educate as many students as possible? You want them to educate fewer or in a worse way? You said their costs were out of control, so I am asking you to justify the statement. HOW are they out of control? People love to make these great generalizations without regard to fact or logic. Which is it - costs are out of control or they are recruiting too many kids?

[HangryHippo]

nice transition haha. My only complaint is that I wish the other Tower dorms looked like Headington Hall..it's unfortunate that the Towers were built when they were (a la Cabrini Green/Pruitt Igo) haha.

I'd really like to see a master plan for the land between Elm Ave. and Jenkins Ave. from Lindsey St. south to Timberdell Rd. There are many buildings in this area, but I find most of them ugly outside of the Henderson Cultural Center and the new power plant that was just built. It's not an attractive building, but it isn't going anywhere.

Obviously this is just my personal preference, but the buildings I'd like to see replaced are the Sooner Suites, the old Cross Center dorms/offices, and the dorm towers along with the Cate Center dorms/offices and the Honors College. These are ugly buildings that do little to maximize the potential of the real estate they sit on.

I also would like to see a serious revamp of the student housing at OU to replace the towers with something like Headington Hall. I know they just "renovated" the towers, but honestly, it was a typical Oklahoma renovation/disappointment. New paint and supposedly it's all better. It was a massive waste of money. I think it would be cool if they could have the South Oval extended through this part of campus in between the dorms. They could then build around that. I just really don't care for the buildings that are there now.

[BG918]

I'd really like to see a master plan for the land between Elm Ave. and Jenkins Ave. from Lindsey St. south to Timberdell Rd. There are many buildings in this area, but I find most of them ugly outside of the Henderson Cultural Center and the new power plant that was just built. It's not an attractive building, but it isn't going anywhere.

Obviously this is just my personal preference, but the buildings I'd like to see replaced are the Sooner Suites, the old Cross Center dorms/offices, and the dorm towers along with the Cate Center dorms/offices and the Honors College. These are ugly buildings that do little to maximize the potential of the real estate they sit on.

I also would like to see a serious revamp of the student housing at OU to replace the towers with something like Headington Hall. I know they just "renovated" the towers, but honestly, it was a typical Oklahoma renovation/disappointment. New paint and supposedly it's all better. It was a massive waste of money. I think it would be cool if they could have the South Oval extended through this part of campus in between the dorms. They could then build around that. I just really don't care for the buildings that are there now.

I think this will happen in time. Infill that entire area along Lindsey in between Jenkins and Elm with new student housing similar in style to Headington Hall. Even have some streetfront retail and restaurant space along Lindsey. And yes extend the south oval southward as a common green space between the new dorms. The highrise towers will probably be around for awhile but I could see Cate and Cross replaced within 10 years. There have been recent renovations in both but mainly to create additional office space and bring the buildings up to bare minimum for code-compliance. If OU were to build an office building elsewhere on campus that would free up the space in Cate/Cross..

Anyone know the current status of renovating the Huffman Center and adding the aquatic center expansion? That was a project that was put on hold a few years ago and hadn't heard anything new about it. That would be another reason to build up student housing in that area since the Huffman would be literally next door with new indoor pools and a big outdoor pool area on the south side of the building (adjacent to the new utility plant).

[dankrutka]

The reason universities are struggling is because state's are cutting funding like never before. Public education should not be operated like a business because the objectives are vastly different. Bringing the business model into education has resulted in failure many times over. Our society benefits from great institutions of learning. If Oklahoma wants to be taken seriously then it should be investing in its universities, not raising tuition and making it financially unwise for students to attend college.

[venture]

The reason universities are struggling is because state's are cutting funding like never before. Public education should not be operated like a business because the objectives are vastly different. Bringing the business model into education has resulted in failure many times over. Our society benefits from great institutions of learning. If Oklahoma wants to be taken seriously then it should be investing in its universities, not raising tuition and making it financially unwise for students to attend college.

So would you then say that public universities should be free to anyone that wants a public education? Granted anyone could go to community college and essentially have that with the current level of Pell Grants.

[Spartan]

nice transition haha. My only complaint is that I wish the other Tower dorms looked like Headington Hall..it's unfortunate that the Towers were built when they were (a la Cabrini Green/Pruitt Igo) haha.

Yeah, OSU tore down or is tearing theirs down. Texas sure has 'em though. TCU also tore theirs down for a fabulous new res life green.

[HangryHippo]

Yeah, OSU tore down or is tearing theirs down. Texas sure has 'em though. TCU also tore theirs down for a fabulous new res life green.

TCU's new facilities are great. Most big universities still have them, but they're hideous and need to be torn down.

[BG918]

Most big universities still have them, but they're hideous and need to be torn down.

Let's line Lindsey with a few Headington Hall-type student housing buildings first, and then tackle the Towers.

More for the other thread, but hopefully eventually private developers will begin building their own high density student-focused housing projects north of OU in and around Campus Corner, and also east of campus closer to the tracks. Surround the campus on three sides with high density residential and keep the academic and office functions in the core area in between.

[Pete]

hopefully eventually private developers will begin building their own high density student-focused housing projects north of OU in and around Campus Corner, and also east of campus closer to the tracks. Surround the campus on three sides with high density residential and keep the academic and office functions in the core area in between.

I'm really surprised we haven't seen more of this, especially with the large growth in enrollment and Norman growing in general.

Apart from CC there is very, very little private development near the campus.

[dankrutka]

Isn't Norman still blocking high density development in its core? Developers have a great plan on the table and the city council has effectively put them on hold over and over. Maybe I'm missing something.

[venture]

Isn't Norman still blocking high density development in its core? Developers have a great plan on the table and the city council has effectively put them on hold over and over. Maybe I'm missing something.

You could say the city council is doing it, but technically the developer is asking for delays until the city gets the codes worked out.

[ou48A]

I'm really surprised we haven't seen more of this, especially with the large growth in enrollment and Norman growing in general.

Apart from CC there is very, very little private development near the campus.

The biggest problem with new privet development near OU's campus is the lack of vacant land.

In most cases older homes and buildings would need to be torn down to make the land available and past members of the city council have spoken against doing this.
Lots in this area are often very small and not everyone is willing to sell even at great prices. In many cases a developer would likely need to be willing to wait many, many years to buy enough land in one area to build anything major.

Increasing the value of the land is about the only way higher density will occur on any scale.
The value of the land would be increased by decongesting the area via building several streets with more capacity and with commuter rail.
This would make the area a more realistic place to live for more people who have higher incomes.