New Skyscrapers Downtown

[metro]

great points but isnt that what we are currently already doing?? also in regards to the "incentives" you also made some sound points. yes, many may agree it is bribery and such but however one thing we must remember is these large corporations also donate a substantial amount of their money back into the community through arts, community projects, parks, etc. therefore some of the "incentives given" are given back to the city, just in another way

[mranderson]

great points but isnt that what we are currently already doing?? also in regards to the "incentives" you also made some sound points. yes, many may agree it is bribery and such but however one thing we must remember is these large corporations also donate a substantial amount of their money back into the community through arts, community projects, parks, etc. therefore some of the "incentives given" are given back to the city, just in another way

Granted. A lot of wealthy corporations DO give to the community. And some of that is fine, such as US Cellular's sponsorship of the Christmas activities downtown or if we get Dell to sponsor the walk of fame. However, these corporations are quite wealthy. Look at Dell. Michael Dell is on the top five list of wealthiest people in the United States, if not the world. Bill Gates IS on the top of that list. They can easily afford to buy their own land and not get insentives to move somewhere. As can Wal-Mart and many others. I just feel if you can afford the ride, you should take it. All insentives do is make the wealthier more so. It is a form of kiester kissing. I think it is actually a form of green mail. (Watch "Other People's Money" for a use of the term) I, for one, do not like it.

[floater]

One thing we need to consider is OKC's economy. There need to be tenants that are growing. All those cities Hot Rod mentioned have dynamic economies where there is a demand for office space. As someone mentioned before, there is nothing "driving" the local economy and getting people to start the businesses that fill the office space. There's only so much downtown demand you can produce by poaching tenants from other sites in the metro.

It's been said before, but I agree we need to convert current Class C space into a new use -- housing. That will help with the original question of getting a new skyscraper. Is a First National Residential Tower out of the question? I think people can be more flexible about floor plans than office tenants.

I think we'll be have to be patient. It took decades to deteriorate downtown, and it'll take decades to get it to a desired level of activity. We've been off a culture of urban activity for a few decades now, and it'll take time to get everybody back to that "inner is better" mindset.

And chalk me up as a supporter of bribery...er incentives -- if other cities play that game, we should too.

[Luke]

Whether or not you like incentives, fact is, if OKC doesn't offer incentives like other cities do, we'll keep declining while others get all the new stuff.

[Midtowner]

One thing we need to consider is OKC's economy. There need to be tenants that are growing. All those cities Hot Rod mentioned have dynamic economies where there is a demand for office space. As someone mentioned before, there is nothing "driving" the local economy and getting people to start the businesses that fill the office space. There's only so much downtown demand you can produce by poaching tenants from other sites in the metro.

It's been said before, but I agree we need to convert current Class C space into a new use -- housing. That will help with the original question of getting a new skyscraper. Is a First National Residential Tower out of the question? I think people can be more flexible about floor plans than office tenants.

I think we'll be have to be patient. It took decades to deteriorate downtown, and it'll take decades to get it to a desired level of activity. We've been off a culture of urban activity for a few decades now, and it'll take time to get everybody back to that "inner is better" mindset.

And chalk me up as a supporter of bribery...er incentives -- if other cities play that game, we should too.

I want to be able to park my car within walking distance of my home.

How much of a pain would it be to go grocery shopping?

[metro]

one thing to remember when you move to california or wherever, they are even more of a prime example of incentives and "green mail", at least oklahoma has had to struggle to survive being the underdog

[floater]

I want to be able to park my car within walking distance of my home.

How much of a pain would it be to go grocery shopping?

It wouldn't be much if there was a grocery downtown. Someone needs to find a way to make it happen, because the market is there. Downtown OKC may not have the residents, but the median household income is high enough. Ideally, there should be more than one, to serve the different residential clusters -- in the arts district, Deep Deuce/Bricktown, and Midtown/Auto Alley. Walking wouldn't be much of a problem.

We need to shift to a mindset where we don't expect to park right up front and walk in. The distances we're willing to walk from our parking space to the front of the stripmall store rivals the distance between employers/housing to a convenience or grocery store in many established downtowns.

It's hard right now when we have the housing but not the basic retail residents need. It's not a problem just in OKC, but most every downtown that's starting to attract residents.

[okcpulse]

I've always pictured a 65-story office tower on the northeast side of downtown Oklahoma City. To make this office tower a success for downtown, and to justify building a structure that would be the tallest in the state, it needs to be a multi-purpose facility. It would anchor the proposed town square, having retail and restaurants on the first two floors, with a grand lobby on all four sides. The next 30 floors would be residential, from basic loft-style apartments to luxury units. The next 30 floors would be office space, and the top three floors would include a private club, restaurant, a public observation deck and a penthouse.

The exterior would be Italian renaissance, adding more color to our skyline. The total cost no doubt would be at least $70-100 million, but well worth it.

On another note, the cities of Phoenix, Austin, Memphis, Tucson, Albuquerque, El Paso and San Antonio all have small skylines with absolutely no height. Phoenix and San Antonio are both cities of more than one million people. In addition, there are very few cities with expanding skylines. Only Houston, Chicago, Miami, New York, Charlotte and Dallas are adding or have recently added high-rise buildings. More than half are residential.

[Luke]

A high rise mixed use tower like okcpulse said makes a lot of sense. And with the lack of housing downtown as well as a need for class A office space, a mixed high rise sounds like a perfect fit.

[floater]

I agree that a spectacular skyline isn't necessary to be a big-time city. And the mixed use tower to serve as the anchor for the Flatiron Town Center makes sense. Also, we'll have the Beacon of Hope light beam, which will bring some new dimension to the compact skyline.

[swake]

you might want to rethink how much a 65 story tower would cost, the new Wiltel building in downtown Tulsa that was just completed in 2003 with 750,000 sq ft and only 15 floors at a cost of $100 million. No idea what a new BOK tower, that is basically what you are describing only with some residential space, would cost today. I bet $300-400 million.

[Midtowner]

I don't think our real-estate prices would tend to make a tower economically feasible. Corporate Campuses are the only thing we'll see in OKC unless significant incentives exist to build downtown. I just don't see anything over 10 stories being built downtown anytime in the next 5 years.

[okcpulse]

I agree, Swake. It's difficult to keep track of the rising cost of office towers. Bank One Tower in downtown Oklahoma City is a 36-floor 500 ft. tall office building, completed in 1971 at a cost of $25 million. It was just guess work.

[mranderson]

Before any high rise can be built, we need to get to a 75% occupancy rate. I use that figure because it would take enough time to build that upon completion, we would be ready to lease the new one.

The exception would be someone like Devon if they want everything in one building. Dell would be about 20 or more floors if we build in one building. However, since the buildings will apparantly be in phases over several years, building one high rise would create several floors being unoccupied for up to five years. Not a good investment.

Would I like to see some highrises? Yes. I personally prefer them. We could try to get our oil tower built. That would be 500 to 750 feet tall.

[Patrick]

I think the idea that floater mentioned is a good one...th eidea regarding First National Center. Since the building has a very closed floor plan which isn't rally suitable to today's modern offices, converting the space to residential apartments would be a good move. Right now the building is sitting with over 60% of it vacant. Why not convert that 60% into apartments? Apartments would go very well with e residential mall on the lower floors of First National Center. The only real challenge I can see if plumbing for the apartments...that would cost a pretty penny.

[Luke]

Wow, I would love to live in the First National Building. That would be awesome. The closed floor plan has its pluses and minuses. You could have a lot of studio style loft apartments for the hip, trendy but poor college students. Or you could have 3 or 4 bedroom apartments for families and everything in between. Yeah, it would be an expensive endeavor, but it could be done in phases too. That way, interest in the apartments could be gaged. How quickly additional apartments are contructed would be based on how quickly and how many of the apartments were rented.

Surely there is a developer who specializes in converting historic buildings (with all of it's issues) into modern apartments. And surely there is a developer who can put all the pieces together and realize that it would be a great investment for them and OKC. MAPS, River, Canal, Arts, and on and on and on... Downtown is the next great place to be.

Imagine walking through the Grand Banking Hall to the eleveators to get to your apartment. Talk about impressing visitors...

[Midtowner]

Step 1 would be to get some kind of parking arrangement that would be convenient to the tennants.

[Luke]

Isn't there a parking garage attached to the FNB?

[Midtowner]

Sold to a seperate entity when the building was donated to Feed the Children.

[Patrick]

Yeah, Midtowner is right...unfortunately it is no longer owned by the current owners of the FNB. Maybe an arrangement could be made with the current owners of the garage to provide parking for the FNB again.

[BG918]

A little Photoshop fun...



Devon Energy's new 42 story skyscraper on the southside of downtown and a new 20 story residential highrise near the arts district.

[Patrick]

Nice touch putting Devon's tower on the Galleria site! Let's shoot for at least 50 stories though.

[Luke]

BG 918... Man, that is awesome!!!! How did you do that? And did you email Devon and show them your idea?

In the same vein, I found this site with concepts of new buildings added to our skyline. They go a step further and make a scale model...

http://arch.ou.edu/arch/5595kbf01/concepts.html

[floater]

That is pretty cool, BG.

[Patrick]

Yeah BG, you ought to forward your pic to Devon.