Know your city

[catch22]

we are barely at 1.3. Not yet to 1.4

[Just the facts]

(I personally know of 6 families that moved within the past few months). ...1.4+ million people in its metro area
Really. A little skeptical Hot Rod

I believe HotRod works for a certain aviation company that is expanding in OKC and moving several hundred jobs here.

[warreng88]

I have a good friend who has lived in the Oklahoma City metro area for about 15 years now. He is currently an upper level employee at Midfirst. He lives in north Edmond with his wife and two kids. Another one of our friends lives a few miles from him. He works at CHK and his wife works at Devon. I live at 21st and May. I feel like most of our conversations have to do with Edmond development over OKC development. They think I live in the hood, no one wants to live in OKC because everyone of the schools are terrible, the crime rate is really high and everyone who lives here only lives here because they don't have enough money to live in Edmond. I also bring up things like the Oklahoma River development, Deep Deuce, Project 180, Core to Shore, Myriad Gardens, etc. but they (yes, even the one who works next to all of this) think no one enjoys any of these things and it is just a waste of money. The only thing they enjoy is the Thunder games which they go to about twice a year. I think there are some people (yes, I know more) who don't want to learn anything new about development and prefer to live in their happy, safe, little bubble rather than acknowledging that something good is going on near them and they choose not to be a part of it.

[OKCTalker]

Haha... Revenge of the well-informed!!

I experienced something very similar on a flight into OKC where a blow-hard was trying to impress the flight attendants by running down the City.

He was right across the aisle from me and said something like, "Yeah, there is only like a million people in the whole state. Not much to do here... Yadda, yadda."

I could barely control myself as I thought, "Bud, you just spouted off on the wrong subject in the presence of the wrong guy." And of course, I proceeded to set the record straight with the latest populations stats, growth trends, some of the many Top 10 lists, info. about downtown development and what was coming, some of the better new restaurants, etc.

Shut him completely up and seemed to impress everyone else (the info., not me).


Testify, OKCTalk!!!

Spread the word across the land to those local and elsewhere... I assure you that everyone that knows me here in California knows all about OKC.

I just caught this thread. Like many of you, I've also been "the other guy" sitting on the plane setting the record straight. The best tool, I believe, is to share a few "inside tips" with the visitor so they've got some talking points and recommendations about the "cool places to go." Gives them some street cred about new places like shops in the Plaza District, Peloton, Packard's, and even about KD's double condo deal.

And the "OKC v. Edmond" thing seems to have become what "OKC v. Tulsa" once was. Live where you want, but don't run down another Oklahoman because he lives in a different zip code. That's like running down another university on the basis of your football team preference.

[Bellaboo]

I believe HotRod works for a certain aviation company that is expanding in OKC and moving several hundred jobs here.

I think he works for Microsoft in Seattle, not totally sure though..

[Just the facts]

I think he works for Microsoft in Seattle, not totally sure though..

Maybe, at one time he worked for Boeing.

[ErnestA]

Ernest, in all honesty - what city doesn't highlight its positives in their chamber/moving here films? I don't think you need to be embarrassed that OKC has showpoints now and choses to highlight them in a film. It's not cheesy and believe me there ARE people moving to OKC from other cities who are interested in the WOW factor of OKC. Seattle CONSTANTLY uses the space needle to death and grunge music so why can't OKC use the Oklahoma River and Flaming Lips? Think Seattle didn't highlight the Sonics when they were here? Why is it lame if OKC does? Many, MANY Seattleites are moving to OKC (I personally know of 6 families that moved within the past few months). ...

Again, I think sometimes locals to OKC are the most critical of the city when in fact what the Chamber and other 'boosters' are doing IS what OKC needs to dispel the misinformation and ignorant who for some reason have a strong negative opinion about the city.

Hot Rod, they are terrific videos that show off the region well. I am proud of them. I just think they need to show some restraint and not be so comprehensive about showing the parts and places of the city we are most proud of. It might be debatable that they show all the highlights (especially the older videos that don't show Plaza or 9th Street), but the principle is to get people to come here and then when they get here, be pleasantly surprised that there are more nice places. Just my philosophy.

By the way, I was floater when OKCTalk began and was on the original MAPS forum with you on the Oklahoman website. Nice to trade comments with you again.

[hoya]

I have a good friend who has lived in the Oklahoma City metro area for about 15 years now. He is currently an upper level employee at Midfirst. He lives in north Edmond with his wife and two kids. Another one of our friends lives a few miles from him. He works at CHK and his wife works at Devon. I live at 21st and May. I feel like most of our conversations have to do with Edmond development over OKC development. They think I live in the hood, no one wants to live in OKC because everyone of the schools are terrible, the crime rate is really high and everyone who lives here only lives here because they don't have enough money to live in Edmond. I also bring up things like the Oklahoma River development, Deep Deuce, Project 180, Core to Shore, Myriad Gardens, etc. but they (yes, even the one who works next to all of this) think no one enjoys any of these things and it is just a waste of money. The only thing they enjoy is the Thunder games which they go to about twice a year. I think there are some people (yes, I know more) who don't want to learn anything new about development and prefer to live in their happy, safe, little bubble rather than acknowledging that something good is going on near them and they choose not to be a part of it.

Some people are total suburbanites through and through. Nothing wrong with that, I was raised in the suburbs and you can have a very high quality of life there. But to ignore the developments going on downtown and think they are a waste of money is just foolish.

[Pete]

I went to Putnam City in the late 70's (the hey day) and the large majority of my class now lives in far North OKC or Edmond -- that is, if they are still in OK. I know, I keep our class database.

While their kids were younger, all they knew or cared about was the schools, soccer/activities and family restaurants.

Well now all their kids are grown, suddenly most of them are very interested in what is happening in the Central City. In fact, I'm planning a class reunion for August and it will be atop Devon Tower; lots of people are staying at the Colcord overnight.

People tend to go through stages where for the most part, young singles care about the city but then there is the child-raising period where almost everyone wants a big yard and good suburban schools. Then they start to come back, both in terms of where they live and where they want to spend their time.


I never, ever fault people for wanting to send their kids to Edmond / Deer Creek / Moore / Norman schools. My parents did the equivalent when I was growing up and I had an incredible educational and social experience. It's where I learned to love the community, after all.

I merely try to educate my friends and classmates on all the great things that are happening "in town" and hope they will re-engage when their priorities shift away from their kids.

And yes, I realize you can raise your kids in the 73102/03/04 but we all have to recognize that will always be a small percentage.

[Spartan]

This is just one more thread to try to say how stupid and backward suburbanites are. But even if these gross caricatures are even close to reality, it reminds me of all the urban experts on this site who profess to know all about cities and have virtually no experience outside of OKC or Oklahoma, or at most, the US. LOL. What is the point of this thread?

If your friends are so stupid and myopic, you either need to change friends or you are part of their club. Most of the people I know in OKC are cultured, not only know about OKC but invest in it, run businesses in it, and finance a lot of this progress, all the while living in those awful suburbs. This incessant suburbanite bashing is just stupid. Those that think living in downtown automatically makes them worldly probably have no clue what worldly is.

Tell us how you really feel, Rover...

[UnFrSaKn]

I had my first opportunity to explain what OKC is all about today while me and another guy waited at the Warren Theatre for a movie to start. We were the first two people at the IMAX. He actually started up the conversation because I usually keep to myself. The whole time, I was thinking about what I read on here about the stories of having to dispel misinformation or ignorance about OKC. We talked for about an hour and only the beginning was about the city. He was 49 and did construction and was from Houston. He was only here for that day or two and was headed to Waco afterwards. He had "been all over the country" and never saw such an amazing theater as the Warren. I agreed and told him it was even better after the movie started. I rambled on every little fact I could think of. He flat out, with a straight face asked me "what do people do in Oklahoma City?" To him it seemed that since there "was nothing to do in OKC" that people spend more time building fancy theaters and raising families. I know as well as anyone what's going on downtown and I showed him on my iPad all the growth we're having, all the facts and statistics you would hear on a TravelOK video. He said a lot of things that I'm having a hard time recalling all of it. He said that OKC is "20 years culturally behind" and "reminded me of Houston in the 70's". He said that in a good way and went on about how utterly terrible Houston is and that its full of egotistical self-absorbed people. He hoped that OKC would stay the way it is and never gain the negatives of the city he grew up in. He went on into stuff like how he is a single dad with a child and women who he comes across on the street in Houston give him odd looks are stare at his child or look away because they've "all had abortions and don't want to get married and have kid" and everyone in Houston is like that. It was kinda funny to me but I didn't laugh. He made it seem like Houston would be a sterile empty wasteland in 10-15 years because nobody raises families or has kids there. That's the basics of the conversation early on, then it went into comic book movies and anime stuff. It surprised me he appreciated those things and being a little younger than my parents and another generation.

[Spartan]

I had my first opportunity to explain what OKC is all about today while me and another guy waited at the Warren Theatre for a movie to start. We were the first two people at the IMAX. He actually started up the conversation because I usually keep to myself. The whole time, I was thinking about what I read on here about the stories of having to dispel misinformation or ignorance about OKC. We talked for about an hour and only the beginning was about the city. He was 49 and did construction and was from Houston. He was only here for that day or two and was headed to Waco afterwards. He had "been all over the country" and never saw such an amazing theater as the Warren. I agreed and told him it was even better after the movie started. I rambled on every little fact I could think of. He flat out, with a straight face asked me "what do people do in Oklahoma City?" To him it seemed that since there "was nothing to do in OKC" that people spend more time building fancy theaters and raising families. I know as well as anyone what's going on downtown and I showed him on my iPad all the growth we're having, all the facts and statistics you would hear on a TravelOK video. He said a lot of things that I'm having a hard time recalling all of it. He said that OKC is "20 years culturally behind" and "reminded me of Houston in the 70's". He said that in a good way and went on about how utterly terrible Houston is and that its full of egotistical self-absorbed people. He hoped that OKC would stay the way it is and never gain the negatives of the city he grew up in. He went on into stuff like how he is a single dad with a child and women who he comes across on the street in Houston give him odd looks are stare at his child or look away because they've "all had abortions and don't want to get married and have kid" and everyone in Houston is like that. It was kinda funny to me but I didn't laugh. He made it seem like Houston would be a sterile empty wasteland in 10-15 years because nobody raises families or has kids there. That's the basics of the conversation early on, then it went into comic book movies and anime stuff. It surprised me he appreciated those things and being a little younger than my parents and another generation.

This is cultural war stuff that is best ignored from a lot of people... I'm sorry, but anyone expecting sympathy for breeding and not getting an abortion is just a loser in my books

[kevinpate]

I think what caught my eye most on this tale is someone was one of the first ones at a movie and had an hour to talk. I did not get to movies that early even when I was taking my kiddos to shortly after midnight kickoffs for some of the Potter/Hogwarts tales.

[UnFrSaKn]

He asked me my age and I told him I'm a Millennial. His experience here is that people my age all work for what they want and have jobs and make their own way in life. The Millennials he was used to in Houston all expected things to be given to them, were lazy and narcissistic.

[adaniel]

I had my first opportunity to explain what OKC is all about today while me and another guy waited at the Warren Theatre for a movie to start. We were the first two people at the IMAX. He actually started up the conversation because I usually keep to myself. The whole time, I was thinking about what I read on here about the stories of having to dispel misinformation or ignorance about OKC. We talked for about an hour and only the beginning was about the city. He was 49 and did construction and was from Houston. He was only here for that day or two and was headed to Waco afterwards. He had "been all over the country" and never saw such an amazing theater as the Warren. I agreed and told him it was even better after the movie started. I rambled on every little fact I could think of. He flat out, with a straight face asked me "what do people do in Oklahoma City?" To him it seemed that since there "was nothing to do in OKC" that people spend more time building fancy theaters and raising families. I know as well as anyone what's going on downtown and I showed him on my iPad all the growth we're having, all the facts and statistics you would hear on a TravelOK video. He said a lot of things that I'm having a hard time recalling all of it. He said that OKC is "20 years culturally behind" and "reminded me of Houston in the 70's". He said that in a good way and went on about how utterly terrible Houston is and that its full of egotistical self-absorbed people. He hoped that OKC would stay the way it is and never gain the negatives of the city he grew up in. He went on into stuff like how he is a single dad with a child and women who he comes across on the street in Houston give him odd looks are stare at his child or look away because they've "all had abortions and don't want to get married and have kid" and everyone in Houston is like that. It was kinda funny to me but I didn't laugh. He made it seem like Houston would be a sterile empty wasteland in 10-15 years because nobody raises families or has kids there. That's the basics of the conversation early on, then it went into comic book movies and anime stuff. It surprised me he appreciated those things and being a little younger than my parents and another generation.

Wow that was an interesting conversation LOL. It doesn't surprise me. Most people I know from Houston have this very odd love/hate relationship with it, and most would live elsewhere if given the chance.

I hate when people ask that question, "What to people here do" So stupid....Hey, lets ask all 1.3 million people in the region to track their day for you. If you have a specific questions about popular activities thats one thing, but when people ask that question it is usually done in a condescending matter. I got it quite a bit when I went to the east coast a few weeks ago. It was always funny because my life and activities never differed that much from theirs.

With that in mind, maybe its because of the crowd I hang out with, but I've never had to deal much with natives badmouthing OKC. I'm sure it happens though. OKC is in that weird space that most mid sized cities with 1-2 million people occupy. Viewed as boring and dull by those from larger cities and a crime filled hellhole to be avoided by small townies. So in a way, OKC will always have to work a bit harder to kind of set itself apart. I, for one, am always talking up OKC when I go out of town. Sometimes I just get brushed off..."yeah, whatever, yokel". But lately, especially if I am in a nearby state, I will get something like,"oh yeah, I was in business up there a few weeks ago, it was actually a nice city." The image of this city from people in the South Central part of the country is surprisingly positive.

Back to your, um, odd, conversation. I kinda understand what that guy was saying when he referred to "behind the times." I consider myself pretty progressive, and yes there are definitely some things that this area needs to catch up with quickly. But in the same way, there is an old timey warmness and friendliness that is not even in comparably sized cities. Just look at the response after the tornado. It wasn't even a question whether people would volunteer, donate cash, etc. And as someone who has lived a lot of places, trust me this does not exist in the majority of places. Its something that has really kept me here. I don't think I could give that up.

[Spartan]

He asked me my age and I told him I'm a Millennial. His experience here is that people my age all work for what they want and have jobs and make their own way in life. The Millennials he was used to in Houston all expected things to be given to them, were lazy and narcissistic.

Why even listen to or care what anyone says after they lament nobody cares gives them a cookie for following through with raising a child instead of abortion and then that all the Millennials are lazy, selfish, and narcissistic. These people are being shut out of society by they own damn selfs.

As for knowing about OKC, nobody knows that kind of stuff. Cities exist to most people in the gray space between Podunk and NYC, and it's easy for a city to puff itself up and convince some people that it's larger. Everyone in my family insisted once that Kansas City was larger than Fort Worth. KC is just a great city. As for OKC, the local home town appreciation has grown tremendously, and we all know that. The main thing missing from the collective conscious today is just exactly how low OKC fell and how high it can now rise if we get things right.

[mdeand]

This thread reminds me how astonishing the ignorance of many Oklahomans is about their home. For a place that is wedded to the automobile I wonder if anyone takes theirs anywhere other than the grocery store and church. I remember about 15 years ago I had to suffer through a two-hour plane ride sitting next to a well-to-do lady who lived in Nichols Hills (why she was in coach was beyond me) who was lamenting on and on about how flat and uninteresting Oklahoma's terrain was.

Certainly, Oklahoma has a lot of open wheat field and some dull dusty roads out west, but her comments on that day irritated me to no end, especially since a few weeks before I'd done a 15-mile backpack hike in the Ouachita Mountains in LeFlore County and I would have killed for some flatness. This lady argued with me that there were no mountains anywhere in Oklahoma. I mentioned to her the Wichita Mountains (another favorite haunt of mine). She thought they were in Kansas somewhere.

OK, so some people don't travel too far by car. But, sometimes ignorant provincialism is measured by the city block.

When this lady learned I lived in Norman she said she used to attend football games there, but (and I'm not making this up) it was too far and you had to travel through those neighborhoods on Oklahoma City's south side to get there, so it was dangerous. Still, she traveled by plane to Chicago and NY all the time for shopping. Needless to say, her blood ran blue. I'm sure her children now live in Edmond.


It's no surprise to me that some do not know the great things that are happening in downtown Oklahoma City. Or, the interesting things that do happen in our state. An entire generation or two have been "educated" by the ignorant. Some people just don't get out much, unless it involves a plane ticket to the Big City.

[bchris02]

(I personally know of 6 families that moved within the past few months). ...1.4+ million people in its metro area
Really. A little skeptical Hot Rod

1.4 million is including the Shawnee micropolitan area.

[Midtowner]

They do that, trust me. Without the efforts of many in those groups you mentioned, especially the "evil" chamber as many of you on here discuss, the image would be worse.

Folks don't dislike the Chamber for the development work they do. We dislike the chamber because of the work they've done at the capitol to disenfranchise individuals and legislate in favor of the powerful.

Most of us are very much in favor of development, but not at any cost.

[bluedogok]

This thread reminds me how astonishing the ignorance of many Oklahomans is about their home. For a place that is wedded to the automobile I wonder if anyone takes theirs anywhere other than the grocery store and church. I remember about 15 years ago I had to suffer through a two-hour plane ride sitting next to a well-to-do lady who lived in Nichols Hills (why she was in coach was beyond me) who was lamenting on and on about how flat and uninteresting Oklahoma's terrain was.

Certainly, Oklahoma has a lot of open wheat field and some dull dusty roads out west, but her comments on that day irritated me to no end, especially since a few weeks before I'd done a 15-mile backpack hike in the Ouachita Mountains in LeFlore County and I would have killed for some flatness. This lady argued with me that there were no mountains anywhere in Oklahoma. I mentioned to her the Wichita Mountains (another favorite haunt of mine). She thought they were in Kansas somewhere.

OK, so some people don't travel too far by car. But, sometimes ignorant provincialism is measured by the city block.

When this lady learned I lived in Norman she said she used to attend football games there, but (and I'm not making this up) it was too far and you had to travel through those neighborhoods on Oklahoma City's south side to get there, so it was dangerous. Still, she traveled by plane to Chicago and NY all the time for shopping. Needless to say, her blood ran blue. I'm sure her children now live in Edmond.


It's no surprise to me that some do not know the great things that are happening in downtown Oklahoma City. Or, the interesting things that do happen in our state. An entire generation or two have been "educated" by the ignorant. Some people just don't get out much, unless it involves a plane ticket to the Big City.

That is the attitude in most places, big cities, medium cities or small towns everywhere. Many of those in the "big cities" rarely get outside of their neighborhood or borough and have a myopic of their "own place" and that infects their view of the rest of the country. Provincialism lives everywhere.

[bradh]

Folks don't dislike the Chamber for the development work they do. We dislike the chamber because of the work they've done at the capitol to disenfranchise individuals and legislate in favor of the powerful.

Most of us are very much in favor of development, but not at any cost.

such as?

[Midtowner]

Tort reform and workers compensation reform just for starters.

[bradh]

Their job is to promote business in OKC. By taking the stance that they do on those issues, they certainly aren't trying to disenfranchise the men and women who own small businesses in the metro and are members who rely on the Chamber to lobby and support the issues important to their livelihood.

[HOT ROD]

Maybe, at one time he worked for Boeing.

JTF is correct; the folks I personally know who have moved to OKC are from Boeing. And many more is to come.

[Dubya61]

Tort reform and workers compensation reform just for starters.

I don't know what they've lobbied to have done to "reform" workers compensation, so I won't address that at all, but, come on. Even you, a lawyer, can see that there's a need for tort reform, can't you?