Retailers not having a good season

[Patrick]

Well, if you went to the mall the day after Thanksgiving you probably would've thought retailers were having a great day. I went to Penn Square and the parking lot was packed....the only parking available was empty spaces at the top of the parking garage and a few in the far northwest overflow lot. That was it.

But, apparently, retailers elsewhere didn't do so well. Once again, retailers are crying about a poor retail season.

What's your opinion of this news?

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"Retailers' holiday outlook dims
By Anne D'Innocenzio
AP Business Writer

NEW YORK - The outlook for the holiday season dimmed Thursday as the nation's retailers reported disappointing sales for November following an uninspiring Thanksgiving weekend.
As merchants released their first solid results for the start of holiday shopping, downbeat reports came from across the sector, including Wal-Mart Stores Inc., Limited Brands, Federated Department Stores Inc., and Gap Inc.

Among the exceptions were J.C. Penney Co. Inc. and Sears, Roebuck and Co., which beat Wall Street forecasts. Their business got a boost from strong sales over the Thanksgiving weekend, as these stores successfully wooed customers with bigger discounts than a year ago.

Another bright spot was teen retailing, particularly American Eagle Outfitters Inc., whose sales soared past analyst estimates.

But overall, the industry struggled last month.

"This can't bode well for the holiday season," said Ken Perkins, an analyst at RetailMetrics LLC, a research firm based in Swampscott, Mass. "There is going to be more pressure on retailers to aggressively mark down merchandise to capture foot traffic and more sales that didn't materialize in November."

Although gasoline prices have fallen recently, they are still high, and consumers, particularly low- and middle-income Americans, have cut spending on clothing and other non-necessities. They're also nervous about jobs -- Tuesday, the Conference Board reported that doubts about the economy helped push consumer confidence down in November for a fourth straight month.

In other economic news Thursday, the number of new people signing up for unemployment benefits rose sharply last week but the overall level of applications still indicates a recovering job market.

The Labor Department said new filings for unemployment insurance rose by a seasonally adjusted 25,000 to 349,000 for the week ending Nov. 27, which included Thanksgiving. Some analysts expected a smaller rise -- around 7,000.

Meanwhile, the Commerce Department said orders to U.S. factories rebounded in October, increasing by a solid 0.5 percent after being flat in September.

In fact, last month's only bright spot was the day after Thanksgiving, when consumers jammed stores for early bird specials. Once the deals ended, many people stopped shopping, depressing overall weekend sales.

Target, whose merchandise appeals to both upscale and low-income consumers, had a 3.2 percent gain in same-store sales, matching estimates.

Limited Brands' same-store sales fell 5 percent, far worse than the 4.8 percent increase Wall Street expected.

Gap Inc. posted a same-stores decline of 4 percent, below the 1.4 percent increase Wall Street forecast.

AnnTaylor Stores Corp. had an 8.3 percent decline in same-store sales, well below the 1.8 percent predicted gain. "

[Keith]

"Among the exceptions were J.C. Penney Co. Inc. and Sears, Roebuck and Co., which beat Wall Street forecasts. Their business got a boost from strong sales over the Thanksgiving weekend, as these stores successfully wooed customers with bigger discounts than a year ago."


I have a hard time believing that sales have been that far down. The day after Thanksgiving, I went into the Target store at SW.44 & Western at about 4 PM. (nope, I definitely wasn't an early morning shopper). The parking lot was packed, and people were going in and coming out at a fast rate. When I went through the checkout stand, I asked the cashier how busy it had been. She told me that when she got there that morning, that people were lined up outside, all the way to S. Western.

Target didn't have a real big after Thanksgiving sale, however, they still had a good turnout of shoppers buying gifts.

Now, I have a hard time believing that Wal-Mart was down in their after Thanksgiving sales. What I really find hard to believe is that Sears and J.C. Penney's had a great weekend. First of all, both of these stores are rather high priced in the merchandise that they sell. Even a good sale in either of these stores is going to cost more than shopping at Target or Wal-Mart. Plus, the Sears that is across the street from Target, at SW.44 & Western, never has much business, at Christmas or any other time during the year. That day I was at Target, I looked across the street at Sears and saw very little traffic. Now, maybe other stores do better in other parts of town, but this store does very little.

I really think the AP business writer is trying to scare people, making them think this will be a gloomy season. From what I have seen, sales are doing just fine.

[Patrick]

Actually business at JC Penney was extremely good. Their doorbuster sales the morning after Thanksgiving were pretty decent. I can't really compare JC Penney's clothes to Wal-Mart's. I'd put JC Penney closer to Foleys/Dillards than I would Wal-Mart. Many of the same clothes I found in Foleys (Dockers brand slacks and shirts, Levis, etc.) were quite a bit cheaper at JC Penney. You can't beat St. John's Bay clothing either. I'd put it up there with Roundtree and York from Dillards.

At Quail and Penn the lines for JC Penney for out the door.

I will agree with you on Sears though. I went to the Sears at Quail the day after Thanksgiving and business there was extremely slow.

[wally]

Black Friday is always busy but days after that the stores weren't that busy. Even Woodland Hills on saturday had places to Park. My Family hasn't bougth that many items as we did last year because were not just in the mood to spned money.

71st street in tulsa from Garnet to Yale, there are many areas for lease, and nothing much is gitting built. Only a small shopping center on the corner of 71st and memorial and steak and Shake on 68th and memorial.

Places that have closed is Just For Feet, Office Max, Grandys, Tex Mex Grill, Gateway Computers, and some other stores that I can't think of. They are building a Wal-mart superecenter at the old Service Merchandice site. It a total of 18 acers next to woodland Hills mall on 68th and Memorial. The stores in the shoping center are moving across the street. Factory Direct also closed but a store called NBC 1/2 and 1/2 took it place.

Target moved othere new location, Super Target at 71st & 169, and sunshine Furniture took it place at the Old Target. The K-mart is now Tulsa IPC. But you can tell that everyting is slowing Down. Hows the Area around Penn square mall?

[Patrick]

I see what you mean wally...Penn Square was packed on Black Friday, but since then, it's been just your typical traffic for the most part....maybe a little better, but nowhere near what I've seen in past years. Quail Springs Mall on Memorial has been even worse. I went there yesterday, and there were very few cars in the parking lot. I parked right up next to the door. It definitely didn't appear to be the holiday season. I guess I was basing my original observations on Black Friday, but have failed to take the rest of the days into account.

[Keith]

Believe it or not, I heard this morning that Wal-Mart's sales are down, and they attribute that to the fact that they did not have any "big" sales on the day after Thanksgiving to bring consumers in.

I went by the Wal-Mart at I-40 and MacArthur yesterday, at around 12:15 PM., and I was able to park within 6 parking spaces from the front. When I checked out, there was no wait. The store was not that busy. I guess many people are watching their spending this year. I know I am.

[Midtowner]

Keith, that's my favorite Wal-Mart.. If I have to go to one, that's the one I go to. The one at Belle Isle is horrible.

I haven't been to Wal-Mart since September though.

[wally]

Looks like everyone is not in the mood to spend money this year.

[Luke]

Midtowner, I second your Bell-Isle-Wal-Mart-is-horrible sentiment. Its ridiculous.

On a side note, Midtowner, where do you live? No, you don't have to give me an address, but a general area. Your nickname, "Midtowner", piqued my curiosity. For what it's worth, I guess I'm a Midtowner, being in Mesta Park (near 23rd and Classen).

[Midtowner]

I live in the Sycamore Square complex -- not saying which side though

[Patrick]

I live near the Bell Isle Wal-Mart....seems like most of the people here avoid that Wal-Mart as well. We all shop at the one at NW Expressway and Council. It's pretty decent.