Official Firearms Thread

[metro]

*note, I never limited this to Oklahoma standards

Also, are you saying a less reliable gun is OK for home defense? What if it's unreliable or malfunctions when you need it to defend?

[positano]

*note, I never limited this to Oklahoma standards

Also, are you saying a less reliable gun is OK for home defense? What if it's unreliable or malfunctions when you need it to defend?

Not at all. Reliability is certainly a top variable to consider. My point was that many people, in my experience, automatically assume that because a law enforcement agency selects a particular firearm, that same firearm would in turn be the right weapon for them. Law enforcement certainly considers reliability, but also takes into account many other factors that a person concerned with home defense would not need to consider. A person looking at a home defense firearm needs to make that decision based on their particular circumstances, which aren't likely to be the same as a person making those decisions in a law enforcement application. Reliability is a common denominator, but in reality not the only consideration. Tactical teams use some extremely reliable weapons - but many would be really poor home defense choices.

I'll add another important consideration (a little tongue in cheek): availability. I was in H & H today - never seen the shelves so empty. You might find a .22, a single action revolver, or high-end 1911, but that was basically it with only a few exceptions. Not sure what I would do if I was shopping for a firearm right now - not very much selection.

[Zuplar]

Not at all. Reliability is certainly a top variable to consider. My point was that many people, in my experience, automatically assume that because a law enforcement agency selects a particular firearm, that same firearm would in turn be the right weapon for them. Law enforcement certainly considers reliability, but also takes into account many other factors that a person concerned with home defense would not need to consider. A person looking at a home defense firearm needs to make that decision based on their particular circumstances, which aren't likely to be the same as a person making those decisions in a law enforcement application. Reliability is a common denominator, but in reality not the only consideration. Tactical teams use some extremely reliable weapons - but many would be really poor home defense choices.

I'll add another important consideration (a little tongue in cheek): availability. I was in H & H today - never seen the shelves so empty. You might find a .22, a single action revolver, or high-end 1911, but that was basically it with only a few exceptions. Not sure what I would do if I was shopping for a firearm right now - not very much selection.

Your options are to go the private route, or hit up the pawn shops right now. H&H is usually on the high side and cheaper guns can be had elsewhere. Overall now is not the time to be trying to buy guns or ammo unfortunately.

[BBatesokc]

Your options are to go the private route, or hit up the pawn shops right now. H&H is usually on the high side and cheaper guns can be had elsewhere. Overall now is not the time to be trying to buy guns or ammo unfortunately.

Maybe it just depends on the gun. I have a few friends that collect guns and they often buy (and always price) H&H. They claim H&H has good to average prices on many of their firearms and their markup is not much and their selection (usually) is vast. I know when I've looked in the past I didn't feel their prices where really any higher than most any other retailer.

[Zuplar]

Maybe it just depends on the gun. I have a few friends that collect guns and they often buy (and always price) H&H. They claim H&H has good to average prices on many of their firearms and their markup is not much and their selection (usually) is vast. I know when I've looked in the past I didn't feel their prices where really any higher than most any other retailer.

Well maybe it's the market right now, because when I've priced there within the past year they were always a good $50 to $100 more than other gun shops and pawn shops. I just figured this was because they were bigger and had a better selection, but I also tend to shop around and get the cheapest deal. I know some places price match such as Academy and Bass Pro as long as the other places has it in stock.

[Zuplar]

I wanted to update this as I finally got around to apply for my SDA permit. I took the class a few months ago and it was very educational as far as the law is concerned. I would say the majority of the class was telling you what you could and couldn't do. There was a healthy amount of gun safety as well as general rules on handling a firearm, but this wasn't as interesting to me as I've had that sort of training. Getting everything for the application is probably the worst part. Going to the Sheriff's office to get fingerprinted also took some time, but now I play the waiting game for my license.

[rjstone208]

Just discovered this thread. Some background. I'm a retired law enforcement officer, OKC PD and 20 years U.S. Army. I have my CCW permit and am a Glock fanboy, owning a G22 as primary carry and G26 as pocket weapon for trips to supermarket in shorts, etc. A caveat with Glocks is that you must, must have trigger finger discipline if you carry cocked & locked. In the Army I carried a good ol' 1911 .45 ACP and a Baretta 9mm. I have pulled numerous times on duty and fired once, hitting and knocking down but not killing a subject, in 23 years or so of carrying (excluding Vietnam which is a whole 'nother tale). One thing I've noticed is that the topic of FMJ vs JHP for stopping power and what happens after you launch the bullet hasn't been discussed. A JHP will expand enroute and within your target and stay there (for the most part). It will do max damage and depending on where you hit one shot will be enough. I wouldn't shoot anything smaller than a 9mm. .22s tend to just piss someone off, especially if you need to defend against someone on drugs, alcohol or with mental problems. If you are going to carry just getting the CCW is not enough. Train, practice, train, practice and then train and practice more. Don't consider going to the range and shooting a paper target a few yards down range as training or practice. I never investigated someone having to defend themselves from an attacking paper target.

[Of Sound Mind]

Don't consider going to the range and shooting a paper target a few yards down range as training or practice. I never investigated someone having to defend themselves from an attacking paper target.

Interesting... I wasn't aware that there were "live target" practice ranges available. I agree, the paper targets have gotten old and just don't provide a challenge... live, realistic targets would provide much more useful practice.

[rjstone208]

A search reveals several combat handgun or defensive training schools in Oklahoma although I haven't attended any of them. There are numerous schools nationwide which provide excellent training. There may be local trainers who provide defensive training but don't know any off the top of my head. Check out the U.S. Practical Shooting Association Welcome to USPSA.org - Home of the United States Practical Shooting Association , and the Internation Practical Shooting Confederation International Practical Shooting Confederation Even better join the U.S. Concealed Carry Association https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/ for more information about education and practical training resources.

[Prunepicker]

Sig Sauer P229 .357's rule. Every family should have His and Hers Sig's and
a Mossberg 500.

[Prunepicker]

The Glocks tend to be a love 'em or hate 'em gun.

The 19 has become almost legendary. It's a good gun.

[Prunepicker]

... live, realistic targets would provide much more useful practice.

In the 60's my brother and I (10 & 12) would launch clay pigeons and break
them with our single shot Johnson .22. Our only rule was that you had to
break it on the way up because coming down was too easy.

[Bill Robertson]

If you are going to carry just getting the CCW is not enough. Train, practice, train, practice and then train and practice more. Don't consider going to the range and shooting a paper target a few yards down range as training or practice. I never investigated someone having to defend themselves from an attacking paper target.

How true. I'm lucky enough to work for a law enforcement training center. I thought I would do fine if the event ever came up that I had to use my gun. Then a few years ago they acquired a virtual training set-up. I was "killed" about 80% of the time the first time I tried it out. I now try to sneak in some time on it whenever I can. It's really taught me to catch subtle movement and such that might make the difference if I ever do end up in a defense situation.

[Prunepicker]

Interesting... I wasn't aware that there were "live target" practice ranges
available. I agree, the paper targets have gotten old and just don't provide
a challenge... live, realistic targets would provide much more useful practice.

In real life don't most hold ups and break ins occur within a few feet and
without much movement? I'm not discounting the fun of shooting a
moving target.

If you want a moving target go bird and squirrel hunting.

[Of Sound Mind]

How true. I'm lucky enough to work for a law enforcement training center. I thought I would do fine if the event ever came up that I had to use my gun. Then a few years ago they acquired a virtual training set-up. I was "killed" about 80% of the time the first time I tried it out. I now try to sneak in some time on it whenever I can. It's really taught me to catch subtle movement and such that might make the difference if I ever do end up in a defense situation.

I wish gun ranges would consider adding these to their facilities; I know that the initial startup cost is daunting, but it seems to me that there would be sufficient demand by permit holders in this state to make it sustainable.

[Zuplar]

The 19 has become almost legendary. It's a good gun.

Very true. I've wanted to pick one up, just haven't found the right deal. I've found a good deal on what most call the Glock's main competitor, M&P9. Can't wait to get it.

[bluedogok]

I have a S&W M&P9, wish I would've bought the .40 just for ammo availability, 9mm has been hard to find up here.

[Zuplar]

I have a S&W M&P9, wish I would've bought the .40 just for ammo availability, 9mm has been hard to find up here.

That's surprising. Exact opposite down here. I hate the price of the .40. Practically the same price has a .45 for anything worth a damn. Of course I like 9mm as it is one of the most common ammo in the world next to .22LR.

[Prunepicker]

I have a S&W M&P9, wish I would've bought the .40 just for ammo
availability, 9mm has been hard to find up here.

I've ordered ammunition from Cheaper than Dirt They even have a phone
so you can order from a human being.

[rjstone208]

Cheaper than Dirt isn't really. This link finds any ammo in the country, some really cheap. Ammo :: Ammunition :: Ammo For Sale : Cheap Ammo : Find Ammunition at AmmoSeek.com Next is a neat tool to find ammo at Wal-Mart. Use it to find really cheap ammo. http://ammo-can.net/ The only problem with ordering ammo by mail is the shipping costs which can be quite expensive.

[Prunepicker]

CTD had what I wanted at a price I was willing to pay. If there are other
sites that have what I want for less I'll gladly use them. At the time
nobody had the ammunition I needed.

Thanks for your help. I'll look into it.

[positano]

The 19 has become almost legendary. It's a good gun.

Just saw Heartland has 19s in stock.

[Zuplar]

Cheaper than Dirt isn't really. This link finds any ammo in the country, some really cheap. Ammo :: Ammunition :: Ammo For Sale : Cheap Ammo : Find Ammunition at AmmoSeek.com Next is a neat tool to find ammo at Wal-Mart. Use it to find really cheap ammo. http://ammo-can.net/ The only problem with ordering ammo by mail is the shipping costs which can be quite expensive.

Yeah I was buying ammo online, but like you said it starts to get real expensive with their shipping. Academy has seemed to keep it in stock and their prices are normal.

[rjstone208]

Here lately I've had the best luck using the Wal-mart ammo finder. Here in Norman at least, Academy never has what I need, .40 cal., except way overpriced JHP. Even then it's been very limited or out of stock. For about the last year, Academy hasn't ever had ball ammo in .40. Yesterday both Norman Wal-marts had some. Gone today. Checking just now, two OKC stores and MWC have .40 cal.

[Zuplar]

Finally joining the AR club. Hopefully it comes in next week.

S&W M&P15.