Spare the rod, Spoil the Child?

[Joe Schmoe]

I'm not aginst corporal punishment, But past the age of 3 or 4, I never felt the need to lay a hand on my kids. Funny, I'm still not aginst spanking, just never needed to do it. & no, my kids are not at all spoiled, or willfull.

All of my kids independantly of each other, have told me that they appreciated how we always explained our actions to them & that punishment was just an unfortunate effect of bad behaviour. They were able to understand the consequences of bad behaviour, without making it a fight between parent & child.

So what have been other parent's experiences on punishment?

Are they spoiled if you don't spank them? Do lectures work? (My kids hated those.)

How about time outs?

I like my kids as young adults & we even have fun hanging out together, but I've never had a problem being their parent first.

Is it okay to be a pal to your kids?

[~~*DarlingDiva*~~]

Wow you opened up Pandoras box here Joe.I will say about being a friend to your kid I will say from experience this does not work.I had my first son at the age of 15 Ironically enough Today is his 18 B-Day.HAPPY BIRTHDAY CURTIS!Anyway I figured out way to late that you cant be your childs buddy because once the teen years set in and they want to push the boundaries they resent your suddenly wanting to parent them.I had to learn this the hard way with my oldest but Now parent my youngest very differently.I do believe in spanking my youngest is 11 and I as well have not needed to do so in so long I cant even remember.But If nothing else it gets their attention and immediately puts you back in the role of the authority figure in their eyes.But I also believe their are alternative ways to discipline.Lectures are probably the least fav for any kid lol.I find groundings and taking away privileges seem to work with my son.Anyhow theres my 2 cents now I have to go make my weekly topic of the boardroom to the bedroom post.
DarlingDiva

[Joe Schmoe]

Happy Birthday to your son, & congratulations to you.

If he's not in Jail by now, you are doing something right.

[Keith]

Corporal punishment was something I grew up with, and believe me, when I was young, grounding didn't work because there wasn't much to ground me with. When I was spanked, my mom or dad would always make me explain to them why I was getting spanked, so that there would be no misunderstandings.

Then, they would always tell me how much they loved me, and how the spanking hurt them more than it hurt me. When I became a parent, I understood what they meant by that.

When my kids (age 11 and 16 now), were smaller, spanking was the main form of punishment. Again, we made sure they knew what they were being spanked for. Fortunately, I have some very good kids. I can't tell you the last time I have had to spank either of them. Yes, even though my son is almost 17, he is still eligible to be spanked, although, grounding works better in his case.

I have learned that being a parent comes first, then if you are able to be friends with your children, it's a plus. I completely agree with what DarlingDiva said about that. There is nothing wrong with being friends with your children, I just feel that being the parent first is far more important.

I never lecture my kids, however, usually each week my family gets together and has a family meeting, where all of us gets a chance to talk and express our feelings. With busy lives, it is the best way for us to know what is going on with each other, and what needs need to be met.

I can proudly say that my kids are honor students in school, and well behaved. My 16 year old son has never had the desire to do drugs or smoke. He is very involved in school and in the youth group at church. He is not perfect, though. We still have our disagreements, and he does get grounded, however, he is still a good kid.

My daughter is also very involved in school, and goes to a school that specializes in academics. She is also involved in her school and with her friends at church.

All in all, parents have different ways of dealing with punishment for their children. If you don't punish your children, you can visit them later in life in the juvenile center or later on, in McAlester.

[Patrick]

Wow! What a great topic! Well, I am still a youngin' with no kids, but I will take a stab at this. In medical school, the psychiastrists constantly preached to us how you shouldn't spank your child. They were always like, well, once you see your first child abuse case in the ER, you'll change your mind about spanking. Well, I haven't changed my mind. I still think spanking is a proper form of discipline if done in the proper way.
Of course, less extreme measures like time out should be tried first. But it seems like there always comes a time in parenting where less extreme measures only go so far.
The question I always had (but never asked) for the psychiatrists that were teaching me was this: well, when you tell the child to go sit in the corner and the child refuses to stay in the corner, then what do you do? I would've liked to have heard their reply.

Anyhow, I think spanking is a good way to get your child's attention when they're misbehaving. I think one of the biggest problems in society today is that discipline in families has gone out the window.....people just don't spank their children anymore, and I think we're seeing the consequences. Of course, not all children that aren't spanked turn out bad. Take Joe Schmoe's children for instance.......obviously they turned out well.

But, I'm an old time religious conservative, and I just believe in God's mandate that says, "spare the rod, spoil the child." Spanking seemed to work well with me!

Basically, it seems like Keith and DarlingDiva have pretty much said all that I would've I agree fully with them.

[Joe Schmoe]

Spanking is not the same as child abuse. It depends on how you do it. Don't spank when your mad, & if you do it in a dispassionate way, they can understand that punishment is not vengence.

Popping a 3 year old on the bottom is a good way to tell them to immediately stop dangerous activities like running into the street. Toddlers are a liitle young for reason & a diaper padded butt is a good direct route to their brains.

Spanking is not the same as violence.

Besides, some of the most screwed-up kids I've ever known were the kids of shrinks. Its kinda like the preacher's kids being wild...

[Patrick]

Amen! Some of the most screwed up kids are those of shrinks. I find it quite interesting that most shrinks are screwed up themselves. It's always amazed me that these people try to help people when they themselves are so screwed up. If they can't get their own lives together, what makes people think they can help them with their problems.

I don't want people to take this the wrong way though. There are some wonderful counselors and shrinks out there that really do help their patients. I praise them for taking on such a demanding and stressful job. Having worked with mental health patients, I can vouch for the fact that it is very draining.

Anyways, back to the topic, Joe Schmoe, you're very right......spanknig and abuse are very different. If your child is left with bruises and broken bones, that's abuse. Otherwise, depending on the form of spanking that's used, I'd say it's a useful form of discipline. It's definitely a good way to get a child's attention. Yelling at a child doesn't work a lot of times, because the child just tunes it out. Sometimes it takes a "wake up call" to get the child's attention and to let them know that you're serious.

[Todd]

I think the punishment/ consequence should fit the child's personality. We have one that we could spank, but it would make no difference. For her it is best to ground. For our 10 year old, we only spanked him when he was little and even then it was reserved for very bad behavior. When we did spank him, we sat him down and explained why he was getting spanked and what could he have done differently. Now he gets grounded. What also works for him is to ask him if God would be happy with his behavior. That really makes him appologetic for his behavior. The 15 year old we ground as well if needed. The eight month old sometimes gets his hand spanked like he did just a few minutes ago for trying to pull ornaments off the Christmas tree for the hundredth time.

[mranderson]

I feel "the rod" will cause the child to do two things. Rebel and cowar. Spanking is a form of hitting, correct? Hitting is not the answer. Plus, all the kid does is dare you to use your hands or other object. The best punishment is psycological. Teach the kid lessons. A good one is the lessons they will learn as an adult.

I helped raise my nieces and was often in charge of punishment. Here is what I would do. I would give them a warning first. Second I would find extra work for them to do. I asked them well before I started this what "chores" they liked and disliked . I wrote them down on a list. One for each of them, entitled hated jobs. I would choose one or two from that list and assign it to them. Third would be grounding. It depended on the offense as to how long. I would also advise my sister in law who was in charge of their allowances. We would deduct an amount that fit the "crime" from it. Guess what. It worked.

In other words, what I would do is train them for adulthood by using a version of the criminal system. First offense probation. Second community service, third imprisonment and fines.

Plus. One of my nieces kept interupting people. So, what I did is whenever she said something, I interupted her. Finally she asked me why I would always interupt her. I said "now you know how it feels, don't you?" She said yes and never did it again.

Teach the child in a behavior modification way. No spanking. No disrespect intended, however, i think spanking is abuse.

Was I ever spanked? No. And look at me. Crime free, and I care about people and things. And am one of the most considerate people you will ever know.

[3laf]

I commend you for helping raise your nieces. It is great when the whole family is involved or at least shows interest in the child. I am telling you though it is different from disciplining your nieces than disciplining your own children. I helped with my little cousins. It is totally different with my own children. When our kids have good behavior people think we must be doing something right. If our kids misbehave especially in public people are quick judge our parenting. No one judges the uncle or any other relative's discipline. I think it is our job as parents to correct their behavior before it gets to the type of punishment your talking about-"In other words, what I would do is train them for adulthood by using a version of the criminal systen. First offense probation. Second community service, third imprisonment and fines." What age would you start this? I don't want to imprison a 4 year old if he forgets to pick up his toys for the third time. That doesn't make sense. A criminal system was designed for adults. Kids need to be treated like kids. They are not little adults. I think spanking is appropriate in certain situations and used sparingly. I agree with Todd. Especially if you explain in a calm manner.

[mranderson]

Kids do need kid time, however, I have said in other threads and will in this one. I also look at kids as "adult trainees." When you look at it that way, you teach children how they should act as adults.

Spank if you want. Obviously I can not tell you how to raise your children. With my nieces, their dad was too busy getting plowed to care. He still cares less. I am the only Father figure those girls have. They think of me as their dad and not their uncle, and I as their Father and they as my daughters.

Except for some minor bumps with one, which was not her fault and not in the way she was raised, all of my nieces are fine, upstanding young women. One is a school teacher in Moore, one has a trust from her late husband so she does not have to work, and the other (the one with the bumps) lives with me. She helps around the house and helps my mom in lieu of expenses. Total they have ten very well behaved and fine children. None were spanked... Ever.

My other brother's kids all whom were spanked. One is a minister (exception to what I am about to say), two are career criminals, and the other has had serious problems in the past. Mostly psycological.

Nope. No spanking. No matter what people say. It is not the answer!

[Keith]

Kids as "adult trainees?" Not me. I want my kids to be kids and ejoy the growing up process. When both of my kids were very young, grounding meant nothing to them. Did I spank? Yes, however, I would very seldom use my hand. My belt meant more business than my hand. When I took my belt off, they knew they were in trouble. After they were spanked, I would explain to them why they were spanked.

Yes, spanking is a form of hitting, however, by law, you can spank your child on the backside anywhere in public, and it not considered child abuse. It is child abuse if you slap your kid across the face, on the back, or hit them in the face, or strike them on any other place on their body. I received this info while doing a ride along with an Sergent(sp?) from the OCPD. We went on a call about a runaway returning home, and he made it clear to the parents that they can spank their child on the behind anywhere in public and not be charged with child abuse.

My daughter is now 11, and she still gets spanked, although, grounding works much better. She is going to an advanced school because she is an excellent student. We have never had a problem with her. My son, who is almost 17, does get grounded, however, he has been told that he is never too old to spank. He, too, is an excellent student at US Grant H.S., he has a good job, is paying for his car and insurance, and is very active in the church youth group. Again, we have never had any problems with him.

As 3laf said, I feel also that there is a big difference between raising nieces and raising your own children. Why make your children act like adults when they are kids? I say, let them enjoy their childhood and not the other stresses of everyday life, like we do.

[3laf]

I just have one question for mranderson.

"the other (the one with the bumps) lives with me. She helps around the house and helps my mom in lieu of expenses.

Does this imply that you live with your mother? Are you an "adult trainee"? What happens when you don't do something that you were suppose to after the third time?

[mranderson]

I just have one question for mranderson.

"the other (the one with the bumps) lives with me. She helps around the house and helps my mom in lieu of expenses.

Does this imply that you live with your mother? Are you an "adult trainee"? What happens when you don't do something that you were suppose to after the third time?

Your comment makes no sense. I suggest reading my post again.

[1adam12]

"Does this imply that you live with your mother? Are you an "adult trainee"? What happens when you don't do something that you were suppose to after the third time?"

It sounds to me, mranderson, that 3laf is wanting to know if your mother lives with you, and if you are the adult trainee?

Just thought I would clarify the question.

[Patrick]

Well, being in medical school I work around psyhiatrists and pschologists pretty frequently. Several of trhem always say..."you shouldn't spank your child....they'll turn the violence into outward behavior." So, I ask them...well, how are you supposed to discipline a child? THeir response: be assertive with them and take away their privileges. My response: well, what if you do all that, and they still don't follow your orders? They're left speechless.

I think Todd hit the nail on the head! Use the form of discipline that's most effective for the child. If grounding works....ground them. If spanking works...spank them. Keeping na open mind to various forms of discipline is the best method to use!

[GrandMaMa]

Kids as "adult trainees?" Not me. I want my kids to be kids and ejoy the growing up process. When both of my kids were very young, grounding meant nothing to them. Did I spank? Yes, however, I would very seldom use my hand. My belt meant more business than my hand. When I took my belt off, they knew they were in trouble. After they were spanked, I would explain to them why they were spanked.

Yes, spanking is a form of hitting, however, by law, you can spank your child on the backside anywhere in public, and it not considered child abuse. It is child abuse if you slap your kid across the face, on the back, or hit them in the face, or strike them on any other place on their body. I received this info while doing a ride along with an Sergent(sp?) from the OCPD. We went on a call about a runaway returning home, and he made it clear to the parents that they can spank their child on the behind anywhere in public and not be charged with child abuse.

My daughter is now 11, and she still gets spanked, although, grounding works much better. She is going to an advanced school because she is an excellent student. We have never had a problem with her. My son, who is almost 17, does get grounded, however, he has been told that he is never too old to spank. He, too, is an excellent student at US Grant H.S., he has a good job, is paying for his car and insurance, and is very active in the church youth group. Again, we have never had any problems with him.

As 3laf said, I feel also that there is a big difference between raising nieces and raising your own children. Why make your children act like adults when they are kids? I say, let them enjoy their childhood and not the other stresses of everyday life, like we do.

Keith, I think you may have missed the point when it comes to "adult trainees". I can't speak for anyone else, but what I meant was to teach self dicipline methods and respect for themselves and others that as your child grows to be a young adult, then as an adult, he has mastered the "adult ways" of dealing with situations. I didn't mean that they should be little adults and miss their childhood, quite the contrary. How much more will a child enjoy his childhood without being hit to prove a point? The fact that you actually used a belt brings back horrible memories of my step-father. I viewed it as his almost seperating himself (with his belt) from the act of hitting, almost absolving himself from the guilt that he should have experienced in doing so. When you use an object to hit with, you have no idea what kind of physical damage that you may be inflicting, not to mention psychological damage. The fact that you still have to use corporal methods on an 11 yr old girl tells me that your methods are not working. And you say that you have NEVER had a problem with her, you are STILL having problems with her. An 11 yr old girl is quite capable of being taught right from wrong without physical punishment, and if she isn't, then it's because she didn't get the training earlier on. How you can say that you have never had a problem with her and in the same breath, say that you still spank her is beyond me. You stated that grounding works much better, but yet you still spank? Why?