Level East

[Pete]

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development
|category1=Deep Deuce
|category2=Housing
|category3=Current
|category4=
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|project=Level East
|address=NE 3rd & Walnut
|status=Proposed
|owner=Richard McKown
|cost=
|architect=
|start=
|finish=
|contractor=
|height=
|sq. feet=
|acerage=
|other=Apartments
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|image=
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[/template]
Information & Latest News

Links

Yellow is owned by Richard McKown (Level Urban Apartments, Mosaic) and pink is owned by the Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority (OCURA).

McKown Property
OCURA Parcel 1
OCURA Parcel 2
OCURA Parcel 3

Gallery

[dankrutka]

Wait. So, there's going to be a Level East in addition to Level and Mosaic?

[Pete]

McKown talked about this a bit in last Friday's chat with Steve.

Said he hasn't acquired the OCURA land "yet" but is definitely looking at another project on this site.

[betts]

I wonder who is going to be holding a full hand when the rental market is overbuilt. Since he won't build over 4 stories (also in his chat with Steve) maybe it's time to look at more for sale housing.

[Pete]

If The Hill continues to sell well, I bet we'll see some more condo projects in the area.

[betts]

We should. There's been a lot of interest in the Maywood Flats. I still think someone should build townhouses and allow people to buy one or more floors, like they do in Chicago.

[zookeeper]

My rent just went up almost $350 bucks to over $1600 for a 2bdr. That's approaching downtown Vancouver rates. I don't think it's over built. I think it is way, way underbuilt.

My best friend and his daughters had only 1 option for a 3brd lease option downtown -- Regency Towers. Not excited about that but they really didn't have any options when it came to availability.

Sid, Are the leasing rates about the same at all the rentals in DD? $350 is a hefty jump. I'm just curious if they felt they were asking below market rates in the area, and hence the hike? I'll be interested to hear the rate variations in the DD area. I completely agree with your analysis. A real shame that there aren't options for your friend and daughters.

[Pete]

Things have improved dramatically downtown and are getting ready to take another big leap forward when just the things currently under construction are finished. Then, we have much more in the pipeline.

AND I'm confident we are going to see tons more well-paid employees downtown as the current businesses grow and the new towers go up with new / expanding employers.

I really think things are just beginning to get rolling. Imagine how great DD will be in just another year or two and Midtown and Auto Alley are both approaching critical mass. As these districts mature and start to be knitted together, we will really have something then.


Even if the local economy started to pull back from the dizzying highs, I still think downtown will continue to thrive.

[adaniel]

We should. There's been a lot of interest in the Maywood Flats. I still think someone should build townhouses and allow people to buy one or more floors, like they do in Chicago.

As someone who wants to buy in that area, its unbelievably frustrating how little there is for sale, especially under $200K. I don't know how long I can wait.

I've been watching Maywood Flats and Central Avenue Villas like a hawk on trulia but so far, nothing. I am seriously exploring the option of buying a narrow lot somewhere near DT and just building a place.

[adaniel]

And to be clear, I'm not saying we don't need more for sale. I actually think we do. I just think we also need more for lease units as well. We just need more Richards!

Oh absolutely. Its just a shame that so many developers here are so unimaginative and uncreative that they cannot fathom building something of quality in the urban core, especially something for families. The demand is there. But at this point I'd rather have a Richard type build slow and steady to make a quality product than have a bunch of inexperienced suburban builders invade DT and throw up another Memorial Road.

And I am still holding out hope that more for-sales are coming. Part of me wants to just move and get my suburban box in Moore or Piedmont. It would be so much easier to buy but I know I would hate myself for it!

[catch22]

And to speak to what Pete is saying, it sure feels like every one of our neighbors are either Med students or work for one of the major energy companies. I talk to a lot of people who work at Sandridge, Continental, etc. I suspect a lot of them will eventually be looking for something to buy.

Which is why we need to maybe start seeing some more developments in the pipeline for for sale....

We don't want to force these people out of the core because there is nothing to buy.

[Pete]

As we've discussed many times, real estate development is the worst kind of lagging industry.

You can only develop what you can finance and banks will only finance what has already been working for several years, so by the time something is completed and on the market, all the dynamics have changed (due to the economy, lending market and other developers chasing the same window of opportunity) and you just have to hope things hold until you can get your doors open.

It's utter silliness and leads directly to the insane boom/bust real estate cycle, particularly in commercial properties.

We're seeing that now with hotels and we won't know how this all plays out until 5 or 6 of these new projects open within about a year of each other. And of course, they are all crowding into the same exact price points.

Apartments seem to be doing the same thing but there does seem to be huge pent-up demand.


As Rick McKown said in Steve's chat, you don't want to be the developer still standing when the music stops. But that usually happens to quite a few people.

[Teo9969]

If there is a way to build apts that could later be converted into condos, would this not be a prudent direction for a developer to head?

[Pete]

If there is a way to build apts that could later be converted into condos, would this not be a prudent direction for a developer to head?

It's possible but usually by the time you have a project financed, built and cash-flowing, keeping it as an ever-appreciating asset is almost always the preferred course. And if you do sell, you usually want a big chunk all at once so you can go start a new project.

The other way is much more common, where a for-sale project can't move it's units so it converts to rental. I know half of Central Avenue Villas are still owned by the developers and rented out. I know investors are also renting out a decent number of units at the Lofts at Maywood Park as well.

What probably will happen is those units will go back for sale at the point there is a nice profit to be made.

[no1cub17]

It's possible but usually by the time you have a project financed, built and cash-flowing, keeping it as an ever-appreciating asset is almost always the preferred course. And if you do sell, you usually want a big chunk all at once so you can go start a new project.

The other way is much more common, where a for-sale project can't move it's units so it converts to rental. I know half of Central Avenue Villas are still owned by the developers and rented out. I know investors are also renting out a decent number of units at the Lofts at Maywood Park as well.

What probably will happen is those units will go back for sale at the point there is a nice profit to be made.

Agreed. I'm renting at Maywood Lofts and since I moved in last year the building has pretty much sold out. A lot of new purchases here over the last year. I have to say though, the builder didn't help themselves with some of the floorplans here. I have a suspicion (unconfirmed of course) that there are several units like mine that they're going to have a hard time selling - 2 bed 2 bath, but very poor use of the square footage. Similar issue with many units at the CAV too. The bedrooms are laid out in a way more conducive to a roommate situation as opposed to having a master bedroom plus a smaller. There's no way I'd buy this unit without being able to completely overhaul the interior. A lot of wasted space inside the unit - where a rearrangement would allow for a much larger living room and dining space - currently I have nowhere to put my dining table. Find me someone who's willing to pay upwards of $250K for a unit that doesn't accomodate a dining table - no thanks! Of course it's not a huge deal - when we have friends over we make it work, and most of our friends are so enamored by the novelty of us living downtown that it makes up for it!

[adaniel]

^
That's wild. Even in my 715 sq ft place in Midtown I can get a small IKEA dining table.

Just my best guess, architects are so used to cranking out apartment complexes that have the "roommate configuration" that they didn't think to do something different when designing a for sale multifamily project.

On a slightly related note, I have really high hopes for the Lisbon Lofts project in SoSA. And personal historical renovations like what this guy did in Midtown are probably going to be the future of owner occupied housing in the urban core for the time being. Although coming home from the gym last night I took a detour through The Hill and noticed they are selling quite a few.

[Spartan]

As we've discussed many times, real estate development is the worst kind of lagging industry.

You can only develop what you can finance and banks will only finance what has already been working for several years, so by the time something is completed and on the market, all the dynamics have changed (due to the economy, lending market and other developers chasing the same window of opportunity) and you just have to hope things hold until you can get your doors open.

It's utter silliness and leads directly to the insane boom/bust real estate cycle, particularly in commercial properties.

We're seeing that now with hotels and we won't know how this all plays out until 5 or 6 of these new projects open within about a year of each other. And of course, they are all crowding into the same exact price points.

Apartments seem to be doing the same thing but there does seem to be huge pent-up demand.


As Rick McKown said in Steve's chat, you don't want to be the developer still standing when the music stops. But that usually happens to quite a few people.

The problem is that our business culture worships due diligence rather than creativity and planning. A pro forma is make or break for any deal and they're all getting the exact same market study telling them they can get rich at the exact same time.

The undervalued skill is that of simply sticking you're head out and finding out what else is going on. That's what makes OKC Talk invaluable, but we don't do pro formas here.

[Pete]

If you see a construction trailer on this site, it's for Maywood II.

The City just signed a two-year lease with them, so nothing is going to happen on this site for a while.

[okclee]

If you see a construction trailer on this site, it's for Maywood II.

The City just signed a two-year lease with them, so nothing is going to happen on this site for a while.

That is good to know. I may be alone here but I don't care to see another Level project go on this site or anywhere else in deep deuce. In 2 years I hope that that city can find a better development for this site.