University Town Center

[Geographer]

I know this isn't directly related to the UNP, but what we are essentially talking about here is "Placemaking", so I thought I would share this link with yall. It is from the IQC (Institute of Quality Communities) from the University of Oklahoma. They recently held a Placemaking conference in Norman with some prominent people in the Placemaking-world. Placemaking Conference | The Institute for Quality Communities I would view the Retrofitting Suburbia and Livable Communities talks, which I think would be most applicable to the UNP development in Norman. They're short, around 20 minutes a piece.

[traxx]

For those of you who haven't followed this since the beginning, it may be difficult to understand our disillusion and our disappointment. We were sold on something better but now have to hang our hats on fountains and trying to prove to people why our Discount Tire is better than the one in Denton or why our ***** Sporting Goods is better than yours.

Here's a thread from the early days of this project: http://www.okctalk.com/norman/4557-u...orth-park.html

The word upscale was thrown around a lot in the articles from that thread. And there was an even earlier thread than that (which I can't find) where ideas such as a large mall like Mall of America were being floated. The original idea of this project (whether it was a mall or lifestyle center or what) was for it to be something big and unique that would draw people to Norman. But why come to Norman for UNP as it is now? Our Vintage Stock store and our Pei Wei is no different than the ones in a thousand different towns.

Maybe when they finally build the lifestyle center or whatever we're calling it, I'll change my mind. I defended this project from the detractors for a long time but finally gave in and realized they were right about 3 or so years ago.


But if all you're going to do is put in a strip mall, at least do it right.

Strip mall done right.

[HangryHippo]

For those of you who haven't followed this since the beginning, it may be difficult to understand our disillusion and our disappointment. We were sold on something better but now have to hang our hats on fountains and trying to prove to people why our Discount Tire is better than the one in Denton or why our ***** Sporting Goods is better than yours.

Here's a thread from the early days of this project: http://www.okctalk.com/norman/4557-u...orth-park.html

The word upscale was thrown around a lot in the articles from that thread. And there was an even earlier thread than that (which I can't find) where ideas such as a large mall like Mall of America were being floated. The original idea of this project (whether it was a mall or lifestyle center or what) was for it to be something big and unique that would draw people to Norman. But why come to Norman for UNP as it is now? Our Vintage Stock store and our Pei Wei is no different than the ones in a thousand different towns.

Maybe when they finally build the lifestyle center or whatever we're calling it, I'll change my mind. I defended this project from the detractors for a long time but finally gave in and realized they were right about 3 or so years ago.


But if all you're going to do is put in a strip mall, at least do it right.

Strip mall done right.

Is that Spring Creek in Edmond?

[bchris02]

I wish there would be more developments in the metro like Spring Creek. That style of development is the standard in suburban Charlotte and even Little Rock and the suburban development there is far more aesthetically attractive than most of suburbia here.

[Dubya61]

Isn't there a mixed use strip mall on south Western? Lightning Creek?

[traxx]

Is that Spring Creek in Edmond?

Yes, and I know the whole 'Don't Edmond my Norman' thing, but it still makes a point.

[Geographer]

Time and time again, data shows that all encompassing village-type development far out gains strip center development in economic viability and profitability.

[HangryHippo]

Yes, and I know the whole 'Don't Edmond my Norman' thing, but it still makes a point.

You'll get no argument from me. It's actually not a bad development, and if there was anything about Edmond that Norman should have copied, it is Spring Creek. Very nice strip mall and UNP would have done well to at least emulate that and not Westgate Marketplace.

[Geographer]

Spring Creek is a step in the right direction, but it's still got all of the attention onto the parking lot instead of facing towards the street or interacting with the street.

It looks a little better but I will argue that it functions almost the same as Westgate.

[HangryHippo]

Spring Creek is a step in the right direction, but it's still got all of the attention onto the parking lot instead of facing towards the street or interacting with the street.

It looks a little better but I will argue that it functions almost the same as Westgate.

When you drive the two developments, there's a very clear distinction between the two. And the portion of Spring Creek east of Bryant is actually far better than Westgate Marketplace. But I do see what you're saying. But Spring Creek would have been an improvement over UNP.

[traxx]

You'll get no argument from me. It's actually not a bad development, and if there was anything about Edmond that Norman should have copied, it is Spring Creek. Very nice strip mall and UNP would have done well to at least emulate that and not Westgate Marketplace.

I've seen shopping areas like Spring Creek in several Dallas suburbs. It would be nice if that were the standard here for strip shopping areas. That could be the standard and then people could always build better than that and more unique than that if they so desired but set that as the standard.

[Plutonic Panda]

Spring Creek is a step in the right direction, but it's still got all of the attention onto the parking lot instead of facing towards the street or interacting with the street.

It looks a little better but I will argue that it functions almost the same as Westgate.

Dude, this is SUBurban, the building do not need to be up to the street by any means. These are designed to drive your car into a parking and get out and THEN walk around away from the street and do what you want to do.

[Geographer]

Dude, this is SUBurban, the building do not need to be up to the street by any means. These are designed to drive your car into a parking and get out and THEN walk around away from the street and do what you want to do.

You don't have to build SUBurban in suburban areas (see Davidson, NC)....very much a "suburban town" on the fringe of Charlotte, NC...but some of the best development I've seen....it's still completely drive-able and everything. davidson.JPG

[Plutonic Panda]

You don't have to build SUBurban in suburban areas (see Davidson, NC)....very much a "suburban town" on the fringe of Charlotte, NC...but some of the best development I've seen....it's still completely drive-able and everything. davidson.JPG

no you don't. You're exactly right, I support building urban in Edmond's downtown, but that's it. As far as building completely urban in suburban, I'm not on board with that. It just defeats the purpose, if you know what I mean.

Btw, that is a cool development. I'm just not a fan of New Urbanism

[bchris02]

You don't have to build SUBurban in suburban areas (see Davidson, NC)....very much a "suburban town" on the fringe of Charlotte, NC...but some of the best development I've seen....it's still completely drive-able and everything. davidson.JPG

There are developments like that all over suburban Charlotte. Ballantyne, on Charlotte's south side, blows it away. My hope is something like that eventually goes up in the Gaillardia area. I personally think Gaillardia is OKC's best shot at an upscale hybrid suburban/new urbanist district like being built in many other cities. Imagine having a centerpiece to Gaillardia with upscale restaurants and bars, upscale shopping, a movie theater, with 3-4 stories of housing above. It would be great for yuppies with families who want a pseudo-urban experience but with the benefit of the suburbs and good schools. If Charlotte can support several such districts, OKC should be able to support at least one. OKC would likely already have that kind of thing if it wasn't for the crash of 2008.

[bchris02]

Dude, this is SUBurban, the building do not need to be up to the street by any means. These are designed to drive your car into a parking and get out and THEN walk around away from the street and do what you want to do.

Agreed. Spring Creek is great the way it is. In fact when strip malls are built in the future, I wish that would be the model they would use. That is the standard in most other cities.

[Plutonic Panda]

There are developments like that all over suburban Charlotte. Ballantyne, on Charlotte's south side, blows it away. My hope is something like that eventually goes up in the Gaillardia area. I personally think Gaillardia is OKC's best shot at an upscale hybrid suburban/new urbanist district like being built in many other cities. Imagine having a centerpiece to Gaillardia with upscale restaurants and bars, upscale shopping, a movie theater, with 3-4 stories of housing above. It would be great for yuppies with families who want a pseudo-urban experience but with the benefit of the suburbs and good schools. If Charlotte can support several such districts, OKC should be able to support at least one. OKC would likely already have that kind of thing if it wasn't for the crash of 2008.

something like The legacy development off of Preston rd. in Dallas would be awesome.

[zachj7]

Baby steps, baby steps guys. There was no way a "mall of america" was going to be in Norman. Puhleezzz. I have a really hard time understanding why there has to be like 4 big mattress places all on one block. Whoever approves or plans these things is beyond me. The reasoning is bizarre.

[venture]

Baby steps, baby steps guys. There was no way a "mall of america" was going to be in Norman. Puhleezzz. I have a really hard time understanding why there has to be like 4 big mattress places all on one block. Whoever approves or plans these things is beyond me. The reasoning is bizarre.

You think there is someone approving things and has a master plan. That's adorable.

Just kidding.

[zachj7]

You think there is someone approving things and has a master plan. That's adorable.

Just kidding.

Haha, I wish!

Well someone must have thought that having a ton of mattress stores on one block was a good idea.

[venture]

Haha, I wish!

Well someone must have thought that having a ton of mattress stores on one block was a good idea.

Or a gazillion grocery stores all in a compacted area.

[Questor]

Or one Asian restaurant literally in the parking lot of another.

[kevinpate]

These recent posts finally flipped the light switch for me. It's the only explanation really. The peeps who decide what goes where in UNP probably grew up with relatives who took them out every weekend to window shop on the Magnificent Mile of Cars ... waves and waves of cars jammed together and different versions of the same product sold side by side as far as their young eyes could see. When such a concept is hardwired into the brain, perhaps UNP was simply inevitable.

[Just the facts]

...yet people flock to UNP in droves. Is it because they like it or because Norman doesn't offer a different shopping choice?

BTW - do they not have a website with a map and store directory?

[kevinpate]

Couldn't say JTF. I only visit two places in UNP with any frequency at all, my bank and Qdoba. We've been into or grabbed takeout from some of the other eateries a time or two. I also use the road through UNP to go up to Tecumseh sometimes. The times I go through I see some traffic and cars in the p-lots, but I don't see mass numbers of folk.