Streetcar

[Spartan]

You guys probably already know this but here thousands and thousands of tourists cross a very active railroad tracks and it is a quiet zone:

https://maps.google.com/?ll=47.60563...05284&t=h&z=18

https://maps.google.com/?ll=47.60524...73.65,,0,32.44

Tracks run all along the waterfront in Seattle and trains go through there all the time.

They don't even have crossing guards on most of it.

That's safe. In Ohio there's a public campaign that "bad railroad crossings kill good drivers, report a bad crossing here" or something like that.

[OKCisOK4me]

A quarter to half of the tunnel is still there. It provides access to the Amtrak platform. The rest of it is behind a sheet rocked wall. The other remaining part that was the tunnel is filled in behind a steel bulkhead and would have to be re-excavated.

Yep yep. I've taken the train down to Fort Worth. It's really pretty cool. If you look at the history pics on retrometrookc or whatever that website is, you'll see that there was also another stairwell that came up and out between additional tracks (which there used to be 6 or so tracks up there!

I have the original plans but they are too large to post.

Sid, Seattle is a great alternative example, but the individual railroads often have their own rules.

Seattle is BNSF territory just like here. At least we have one thing in common ;-)

Irregardless, you wouldn't want a passing freight train bifurcating your transfer at a hub. You might miss your own train transfer! lol

Also not going to swear by it, but I think Fort Worth's freight activity is on the easternmost tracks. I don't think pedestrians are crossing freight tracks but rather Texas Eagle passenger tracks.

You are absolutely correct, but technically, you're still crossing tracks to get to the other platform.

Bolded answers...

[plaws]

The Brewers only own the Santa Fe Depot building and the small, narrow parcel of property that it sits on between Reno and Sheridan and between E.K. Gaylord and the west line of the BNSF railroad right-of-way, which is the west retaining wall of the elevated terminal and guideway. They do not own or control any structures, facilities or rights associated with the BNSF railroad right-of-way lying between the east and west retaining walls of the elevated terminal and guideway.

Here's a plat from the Oklahoma County Assessor showing the Santa Fe Station property owned by Bricktown Real Estate LLC (Brewers) highlighted in yellow.

Thank you!! That answers many questions. $2.5M isn't sounding as far off as the other party's figure!

[Urban Pioneer]

The next MAPS 3 Transit Subcommittee Meeting is next Wed, June 26th, at 3:30 PM, 420 Main Street, 10th floor Conference Room.

I'd like to say, this next meeting is going to be very important as now we have a full technical assessment by experts. For the first time, route analysis has included every conceivable factor. Expect to see 2 - 4 main spine alternates, 3 - 4 Midtown service alternates, 1 - 2 Bricktown alternates, and a plan to service MAPS 3 Park and Convention Center as they come online in the MAPS 3 timeline.

Also expect a great deal of discussion, input, and debate. And also expect significant resistance from those who are starting to realize this project is actually becoming a reality.

[catch22]

The next MAPS 3 Transit Subcommittee Meeting is next Wed, June 26th, at 3:30 PM, 420 Main Street, 10th floor Conference Room.

I'd like to say, this next meeting is going to be very important as now we have a full technical assessment by experts. For the first time, route analysis has included every conceivable factor. Expect to see 2 - 4 main spine alternates, 3 - 4 Midtown service alternates, 1 - 2 Bricktown alternates, and a plan to service MAPS 3 Park and Convention Center as they come online in the MAPS 3 timeline.

Also expect a great deal of discussion, input, and debate. And also expect significant resistance from those who are starting to realize this project is actually becoming a reality.

That's fantastic news. Thanks for the update.

[OKCisOK4me]

The next MAPS 3 Transit Subcommittee Meeting is next Wed, June 26th, at 3:30 PM, 420 Main Street, 10th floor Conference Room.

I'd like to say, this next meeting is going to be very important as now we have a full technical assessment by experts. For the first time, route analysis has included every conceivable factor. Expect to see 2 - 4 main spine alternates, 3 - 4 Midtown service alternates, 1 - 2 Bricktown alternates, and a plan to service MAPS 3 Park and Convention Center as they come online in the MAPS 3 timeline.

Also expect a great deal of discussion, input, and debate. And also expect significant resistance from those who are starting to realize this project is actually becoming a reality.

Thankfully, the ones that actually realize this project is becoming a reality are only on here...

[soonerguru]

Thankfully, the ones that actually realize this project is becoming a reality are only on here...

Excellent point. There's a lot of manufactured outrage and controversy. The fact is, OKC is getting a streetcar and it's going to indelibly change how we view our city. I fully expect some BS stories by "journalists" trying to suggest otherwise in the coming days. If you're a streetcar or transit advocate, prepare yourself for the stories and recognize them for what they are: rhetorical vapor to gin up page views and ratings.

When you see these stories, try to remind yourself that this has already been approved by the tax-paying voters, and remember that it was (and remains) a popular initiative.

[Larry OKC]

IMHO, that was uncalled for

[BoulderSooner]

From Steve today Oklahoma City Streetcar: Prepare for a Battle | News OK

Another column with several factual errors. Some of which pointed out by

Ernest Istook

Shame on you Steve for false reporting. No light rail system was part of the original MAPS. That proposed only a high-cost, low passenger volume downtown rail trolley that would have carried people in a circle that was smaller than 2 miles. The city's own official study predicted only a tiny ridership. Most people never read that study but I did. So instead I helped the city get funds for affordable and practical rubber-tire trolleys that were a big success.
I interviewed Randall O'Toole on KTOK only because YOUR newspaper had just printed his letter commenting about the current plan. I took absolutely no position on that plan myself. Why don't you criticize your employer for getting O'… Continue Reading

[soonerguru]

From Steve today Oklahoma City Streetcar: Prepare for a Battle | News OK

Another column with several factual errors. Some of which pointed out by

Ernest Istook

Shame on you Steve for false reporting. No light rail system was part of the original MAPS. That proposed only a high-cost, low passenger volume downtown rail trolley that would have carried people in a circle that was smaller than 2 miles. The city's own official study predicted only a tiny ridership. Most people never read that study but I did. So instead I helped the city get funds for affordable and practical rubber-tire trolleys that were a big success.
I interviewed Randall O'Toole on KTOK only because YOUR newspaper had just printed his letter commenting about the current plan. I took absolutely no position on that plan myself. Why don't you criticize your employer for getting O'… Continue Reading

Right on cue. Just as predicted. And there's more bubbling up behind the scenes. I will say that Steve points out the hypocrisy of Istook quite well, and exposes Shadid's position (as if we didn't know at this point) on the project.

What Steve does not mention is that Ed Shadid opposes MAPS in general, and has never voted in any of the MAPS elections. One would expect his contrary voice. Also, Shadid seems to mistakenly conclude that he can kill the streetcar project and magically move money into the bus system, a quixotic position with no basis in reality.

Attention OKCTalk members who support the streetcar in particular and MAPS 3 in general: gird yourselves for battle. I'm guessing Shadid is going for broke with a last-ditch effort to kill the project. Make your opinions known. If successful, Shadid's efforts could permanently damage the MAPS brand and cause an intractable breach between young voters and city government -- not to mention destroy one of the most transformative of the MAPS projects.

[BoulderSooner]

Should be noted that Steve already removed the light rail reference from his column

[CuatrodeMayo]

I may have to show up on Wednesday...with popcorn.

[betts]

I think Shadid is perfectly happy breaking faith with the voters because he doesn't care about them. In addition, he doesn't care about MAPS. He never bothered to vote so clearly could not have been invested in city improvement as we define it. He has his own agenda and doesn't really care who disagrees with it, as long as he can accomplish it from what I can tell. And, he is prepared to use subterfuge, innuendo and misinformation to achieve his goals. I don't ever remember being as angry with a politician from this state since Ernest Istook, coincidentally (or not). I actually thought he would be a welcome addition to the City Council and I applauded his election. But, in his own way, he is as anti-partisan as any member of the Council I can remember and as stubborn and misguided as Brian Walters. The party may be different but the attitude is the same. We risk a city council as divided as that in Tulsa if he achieves a higher office, IMO.

I'm also fascinated by the timing of all this. O'Toole's commentary showed up in the DOK just prior to the route being presented to our committee. His first article was written in 2006 and another a year ago. Ernest Istook (who has been off the landscape politically as far as I knew) suddenly has the itch to discuss the streetcar. Steve ties it all together in a nice neat package with some Shadid thrown in for good measure. Why now? Why not 1 or 2 or 3 years ago? Politics make strange bedfellows.

[soonerguru]

I think Shadid is perfectly happy breaking faith with the voters because he doesn't care about them. In addition, he doesn't care about MAPS. He never bothered to vote so clearly could not have been invested in city improvement as we define it. He has his own agenda and doesn't really care who disagrees with it, as long as he can accomplish it from what I can tell. And, he is prepared to use subterfuge, innuendo and misinformation to achieve his goals. I don't ever remember being as angry with a politician from this state since Ernest Istook, coincidentally (or not). I actually thought he would be a welcome addition to the City Council and I applauded his election. But, in his own way, he is as anti-partisan as any member of the Council I can remember and as stubborn and misguided as Brian Walters. The party may be different but the attitude is the same. We risk a city council as divided as that in Tulsa if he achieves a higher office, IMO.

He doesn't belong to a political party. He is a party of one. He belongs to the party of Ed Shadid. His unwillingness to work with others is absolutely toxic to this city. I too applauded and supported his election -- and appreciated his courage to stand up to some folks who no one else appeared to have the nerve to confront.

But I cannot continue to support someone who will not work with others to achieve common goals. His ideological rigidity, though ostensibly from the left side of the aisle, is rather the same as the worst teabagger in its fecklessness.

[warreng88]

Simply put, if the council vote and choose to not do the streetcar and do something else, that will be the end of MAPS as we know it. The only way it will pass again will be there are specifics in the next vote.

[soonerguru]

Depending on what happens, we might consider taking another approach: Can a councilperson be recalled? What would it take?

[betts]

Simply put, if the council vote and choose to not do the streetcar and do something else, that will be the end of MAPS as we know it. The only way it will pass again will be there are specifics in the next vote.

But, that only has impact with the Council if they care about MAPS. If some members don't care about the voters, then it doesn't matter.

[soonerguru]

I'm also fascinated by the timing of all this. O'Toole's commentary showed up in the DOK just prior to the route being presented to our committee. His first article was written in 2006 and another a year ago. Ernest Istook (who has been off the landscape politically as far as I knew) suddenly has the itch to discuss the streetcar. Steve ties it all together in a nice neat package with some Shadid thrown in for good measure. Why now? Why not 1 or 2 or 3 years ago? Politics make strange bedfellows.

The timing is deliberate. Isn't the transit subcommittee making its big presentation this week? No coincidence there.

[Tier2City]

The timing is deliberate. Isn't the transit subcommittee making its big presentation this week? No coincidence there.

Aren't Council members usually briefed in advance of major MAPS announcements, consultants reports, etc.?

[betts]

I didn't mean to necessarily imply that Steve is on the side of the streetcar naysayers in my comment above, as he did indicate both sides of the argument, but I do question whether he is being manipulated by someone who wants more press for anti-streetcar commentary.

[blangtang]

It seems too convenient for the (funded) streetcar $$ to be diverted to the (unfunded) convention center hotel...I'm too cynical.

Which makes me wonder what will happen to the Amtrak station if the city acquires it via E.D. lol!

[soonerguru]

It seems too convenient for the (funded) streetcar $$ to be diverted to the (unfunded) convention center hotel...I'm too cynical.

Which makes me wonder what will happen to the Amtrak station if the city acquires it via E.D. lol!

No need for cynicism here. Steve's column makes it clear. Shadid wants to kill the streetcar project, and the fact we know he is not a fan of the convention center, means he has other ideas for the money. This isn't a "Chamber junta" deal. This is an Ed Shadid deal.

[blangtang]

Should be noted that Steve already removed the light rail reference from his column

i read both blogs/articles and i'm not sure what chunk was deleted. one has FB comments, which tend to get heated, and one has capcha filters, its almost like 2 separate convo's...

Oklahoma City Streetcar: Prepare for a Battle | News OK

Oklahoma City Streetcar: Prepare for a Battle | OKC Central

I'll admit, I'm a late witness to the battle(s), but apparently B_S_ is one of the thorns causing ...certain people...to abstain, temporarily (apparently) to abstain from posting on this site. Now I know...

Noted.

As you were.

[soonerguru]

I didn't mean to necessarily imply that Steve is on the side of the streetcar naysayers in my comment above, as he did indicate both sides of the argument, but I do question whether he is being manipulated by someone who wants more press for anti-streetcar commentary.

I'm more curious about the Oklahoman in general. Why are they giving voice to that CATO loon?

More importantly, I cannot recall (and I may have forgotten), but has the Oklahoman actually run a comprehensive piece about the streetcar itself, and how it will be utilized? What economic development benefits it bring? How it would function in a multi-modal transit system? I don't recall reading anything of substance in the last two years about the streetcar.

I've read articles in the Gazette and Journal Record. Most of the stuff I've read in the DOK about the streetcar mentions it as part of a larger wrap story or as something associated with BS controversies.

It's been a few years since we voted. Wouldn't it make sense for the Oklahoman to write more in-depth articles about the MAPS projects coming online?

I may be off base here, but if there is any slant to the Oklahoman's articles about the streetcar, it's that this MAPS project is somehow imperiled, or "may not happen." Very little informative journalism about the moving parts of the project: where the route may go, how this may affect local businesses and transit-oriented development, how it may relieve congestion and parking problems during Thunder games, etc.

It seems the Oklahoman favors the "there's a controversy a-brewin'" angle versus providing taxpayers and readers the information they're too busy to get themselves; specifically, what will this streetcar do for our city?

I'm trying to be charitable here, but this is not "reader service" journalism. Fits the "horse race" or "he said she said" model that provides very little depth of understanding.

[Spartan]

So now it's time to see if OKC can/will actually progress into a big city. This is put up or shut up time.