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Thread: Living with tornadoes in Central Oklahoma

  1. #126

    Default Re: Living with tornadoes in Central Oklahoma

    A very good read

    Insight: In tornado alley, building practices boost damage

    Sat, Jun 8, 2013

    In a residential neighborhood near the center of a monster tornado that struck Moore, Oklahoma last month, two partially damaged houses stand like an island among others flattened by the storm.

    The walls and roofs of the buildings in a new housing development called Featherstone Addition are still upright while there is nothing left but a concrete foundation where other homes once stood nearby.

    The two homes were not completely spared but are salvageable, according to David Prevatt, a civil engineer who saw them when he surveyed the damage after Moore took a direct hit from an EF5 tornado, the strongest rating.

    He is convinced that the two houses survived because they were built stronger than most in Oklahoma and the rest of "tornado alley" - the region stretching from Texas to Iowa that accounts for roughly a fourth of all U.S. tornadoes.

    "This notion that we cannot engineer buildings economically to withstand tornado loads is a fallacy," said Prevatt, who has studied damage from hurricanes and the devastating tornadoes in 2011 in Joplin, Missouri and Tuscaloosa, Alabama.

    The cost of damage from tornadoes is soaring in the United States even though National Weather Service historical data shows no significant rise in the number of storms.

    The last five years have seen the highest losses from thunderstorm damage in U.S. history, according to an analysis by insurer Munich RE.

    Tornadoes were the costliest natural catastrophes in the U.S. in 2011 - the year of Joplin and Tuscaloosa - with an estimated $47 billion in overall economic damage, and insured losses of $26 billion, Munich RE said.

    Tropical storms topped the natural disaster list in 2012 because of Hurricane Sandy. But even in a relatively quiet tornado year, economic losses from severe thunderstorms reached $28 billion in 2012 and insured losses $14 billion, Munich RE said.

    The Moore, Oklahoma tornado on May 20, and associated storms, could cost up to $5 billion in insured losses, disaster modeling company Eqecat has estimated, making it the second costliest tornado outbreak on record after Tuscaloosa.

    Damage costs are rising because of increased population density, even in mostly rural states such as Oklahoma, which has seen substantial urban sprawl in the last decade, said Greg Carbin, Warning Coordination Meteorologist for the National Weather Service's Storm Prediction Center in Norman, Oklahoma.

    Another important reason that has received less attention, is that most homes in tornado alley are not built to withstand even a modest tornado.

    The result is that residents of tornado alley, insurance companies and the U.S. government are footing a mounting bill from damage that could be limited with better construction, according to several engineers, meteorologists and consumer advocates interviewed by Reuters.

    "We have to stop this cycle of a storm coming along destroying things and we build them back the same," said Leslie Chapman-Henderson, chief executive of the Federal Alliance for Safe Homes, a consumer group. "That is the official definition of insanity."

    Oklahoma should follow the example of Florida after Hurricane Andrew in 1992 and adopt a tougher building code to reduce damage in future, said Prevatt, Assistant Professor of Civil and Coastal Engineering at the University of Florida.

    Most experts cautioned that even a strengthened building code would probably not lead to homes that could survive unscathed from an EF5 tornado. Prevatt believes they can be built but with new housing materials.

    UNIQUE LABORATORY

    Moore, Oklahoma is a unique laboratory to study construction and tornado damage because it has been hit by four tornadoes in the last 15 years, including a 1999 storm similar to May 20.

    Better advance warning systems through the National Weather Service and the news media are credited with what some call a remarkably low 24 fatalities from the May 20 Moore tornado. This compares with 40 in 1999 even though the population of Moore has risen more than a third since, according to U.S. Census data.

    Forecasters did not perform as well on May 31 when a second monster storm system bore down on the area and another 20 people were killed. One television meteorologist advised people to get in their cars and flee, putting some at grave risk.

    Another improvement in the last 15 years is that more residents of Oklahoma have rebuilt their homes with storm shelters or safe rooms, which also may have saved lives. Seven children were killed on May 20 in a school without a shelter.

    Federal Emergency Management Agency spokesman Dan Watson said that since 1993, FEMA has invested more than $57 million in 11,768 private and public safe rooms in Oklahoma, more structures than in any other state.

    The chances of two tornadoes of such magnitude striking in one place such as Moore, let alone four tornadoes in 15 years, are very small, according to Carbin, who studies the odds.

    Even at the height of U.S. tornado season on any day in May in central Oklahoma, the chances of a tornado hitting within 25 miles are only about 1 percent, Carbin said.

    EF5 tornadoes packing enormous winds of 200 miles per hour and higher, the strongest rating on the Fujita scale used to measure tornadoes, account for less than one-tenth of one percent of all tornadoes, Carbin said.

    These slim chances have led many residents of tornado alley to conclude there is no point building to survive tornadoes.

    But some 95 percent of all tornadoes are in the lower strength categories to EF2 with winds up to 135 mph, said Carbin.

    And the current building code minimum applied in Oklahoma and tornado alley calls for the structure to withstand 90 mph straight line winds for 3 seconds.

    "Why should we be surprised if a house collapses if the load is four times more powerful than it was designed to withstand," said Prevatt.

    BUILDING CODES

    Tim Marshall, a meteorologist and engineer for Haag Engineering Co in Irving, Texas, said he told the city of Moore about poor construction practices after the huge 1999 tornado.

    "We didn't really change the building codes after the last tornado (1999)," said Elizabeth Jones, community development director of the city of Moore. "For people on a limited income, they look at the probability of being in a tornado. The chances are not that great," she said.

    In lightly regulated Oklahoma, Republican Governor Mary Fallin has ruled out requiring a safe room or shelter in every school as too expensive, despite the recent deaths, prompting criticism from Democrats who say she is ignoring school safety.

    Asked in a telephone interview if Oklahoma would toughen its building codes, Fallin said: "That is certainly something we are going to look at this summer. What makes sense. What is doable. What's not doable." She said that people have limited budgets and the cost would be a consideration.

    Oklahoma has been in touch with Joplin officials to ask what it did after the 2011 tornado there killed 161 people, Fallin said. Steve Cope, building and neighborhoods supervisor for Joplin, said the city made a few upgrades to building codes that did not add much to constructions costs.

    Unlike its neighbors Texas and Kansas, Oklahoma has formed a state agency to set building codes. The first statewide rules went into effect on residential construction only two years ago so they have had little time to work. Prior to that, local towns and cities set the codes, and they can still set stronger codes than the state.

    Oklahoma opted to use the 2009 version of the basic minimum U.S. building code and not to update when strengthened rules were issued in 2012, according to Billy Pope, chief executive of the Oklahoma Uniform Building Code Commission.

    There is no state mechanism to enforce the code, said Pope. Enforcement is left up to local communities and some with populations of 10,000 or less have no inspectors.

    "We saw numerous violations of the building codes (in Moore)," said Marshall, a veteran member of the National Weather Service's rapid response team which went into the town immediately after the May 20 tornado to assess damage.

    The basic "minimum" residential building code in the United States is agreed through the International Code Council (ICC), a body that brings together homebuilders, architects, engineers and government officials to update rules every three years.

    The process is slow and deliberate, and most of the changes agreed are subtle rather than dramatic, officials said.

    STRONGER HOUSES

    Building a house to limit tornado damage involves making strong connections from the foundation to the walls to the roof, said Prevatt.

    Nails hammered into the wood at a 90 degree angle provide little resistance to the upward suction of a tornado, several construction and engineering experts said.

    "We saw that in many places in Moore," said Randy Shackelford, Research Engineer and Code Specialist for Simpson Strong-Tie Company in McKinney, Texas. "Two nails sticking up where the stud (wall frame) once was."

    The next best connection is what is called a "toenail" in construction jargon, which involves driving the nail into the wood at a 45 degree angle. This provides significantly more resistance than nails driven at a 90 degree angle.

    The 2012 national code which Oklahoma decided not to adopt immediately calls for three toenails per connection but Oklahoma's code allows two nails, which is significantly weaker, Shackelford said.

    The two houses Prevatt saw standing in Moore amid the devastation were built with what are called "hurricane ties" or metal straps to bind the roof to the walls, which are stronger than nails, he said. These are required by the robust Florida building code but not in Oklahoma and most of tornado alley.

    Connections between walls and the concrete foundations of homes were another area where Moore construction was poor, Prevatt and Marshall said.

    The ideal in a storm region would be to use "anchor bolts" - a steel rod embedded in the concrete foundation and bolted to the wall frame.

    In Moore, both engineers said they saw numerous cases of nails binding the walls to foundations rather than bolts.

    Tanya Brown, a research engineer for the Institute for Business and Home Safety, which studies tornadoes for insurance companies, said she saw many examples in Moore of the house failing because of a collapsed garage door.

    The wind blew prefabricated garage doors in, allowing a rush of air into the house and destroying the structure, she said. The garage doors needed braces to avoid collapse, which are not required in Oklahoma.

    "They are not commonly used outside hurricane areas," she said.

    The wise thing for tornado alley to do would be to adopt building codes similar to Florida which at least marginally improve the ability of the building to withstand wind, said Carbin, the meteorologist.

    The increased building cost would be partially offset by savings from buildings which are not destroyed, he said.

    A 2002 University of Florida study found more robust construction to withstand hurricane winds could add up to 10 percent to the selling price of a house.

    The National Association of Home Builders did not respond to several requests to comment for this story.

    Pope of the Oklahoma building commission said he had just returned from Moore, where he inspected damage along with several other people involved in setting the state's standards.

    "Florida has been in that process for a lot of years. We will probably get there," he said. "It looks like we are behind and are playing catch-up."

  2. #127

    Default Re: Living with tornadoes in Central Oklahoma

    The biggest problem with building stronger is (most) home builders don't want to anything different than they have always done it, they resist any change including accessibility even in homes for a disabled person (my wife has dealt with the a bunch). They always wanted to charge her ridiculous change fees even when nothing had been started because they felt they could. It is pretty much the same thing in trying to build more wind resistant (not just tornadoes) construction. The saving grace may be there aren't as many large, national home builders in OKC as there are in other markets and they may respond to a local market dynamic better than a D.R. Horton or Lennar. For the most part the "up sell" will always be finishes and such. I still think people ought to push for alternative building technologies over wood stick framing.

  3. #128

    Default Re: Living with tornadoes in Central Oklahoma

    I think new construction, especially in Moore which seems more prone to violent tornadoes than other areas of the metro, should be built to these standards.

  4. #129

    Default Re: Living with tornadoes in Central Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by venture79 View Post
    Reinforces my point I think...people have short term memories. If people in Georgia aren't even remember the Super Outbreak of 2011...then they won't remember the EF5s this year. April 25-27th 2011...the biggest tornado outbreak in US history...
    I remember it because I had a former co-worker in Austin who grew up in that corner of Georgia and her parents had a lake cabin outside of Tuscaloosa that was destroyed in the tornado....and I can be a weather geek at times...but most of the general population have long since forgot about them.

  5. #130

    Default Re: Living with tornadoes in Central Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    I think new construction, especially in Moore which seems more prone to violent tornadoes than other areas of the metro, should be built to these standards.
    Moore should have no more stringent requirements than other areas in the metro because, in spite of recent events, it is not more prone to violent tornadoes than other areas of the metro.

  6. #131

    Default Re: Living with tornadoes in Central Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by ljbab728 View Post
    Moore should have no more stringent requirements than other areas in the metro because, in spite of recent events, it is not more prone to violent tornadoes than other areas of the metro.
    Are you in complete denial of reality in spite of recent events? Edmond and Norman tornadoes haven't been EF5. So if I had to make a choice I would stay out of Moore and live in either Moore or Edmond. Of course, you can't wait to say the next F5 tornado in Oklahoma could happen in either Edmond or Norman. Am I right on this?

  7. #132

    Default Re: Living with tornadoes in Central Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunty View Post
    Are you in complete denial of reality in spite of recent events? Edmond and Norman tornadoes haven't been EF5.
    There was an EF0 in east Edmond that grew into a large wedge tornado just east of Edmond. There was also the large Piedmont tornado west of Edmond a few years ago. So there's no reason OKC or any other metro area to not get hit with a large tornado other than luck. No scientific reasons anyway other the same reason central Oklahoma has a higher tornado threat. The probabilities across the main cities in central Ok would be roughly the same though.

    I have seen several times where other metro areas just barely avoided getting hit.

  8. #133

    Default Re: Living with tornadoes in Central Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by jn1780 View Post
    There was an EF0 in east Edmond that grew into a large wedge tornado just east of Edmond. There's no reason OKC or any other metro area to not get hit with a large tornado other than luck.

    I have seen several times where other metro areas just barely avoided getting hit.
    You are right in that its luck Edmond, Norman, or OKC proper haven't been hit with an EF5. However, Moore has been hit with multiple strong tornadoes in just the past 15 years. It seems like a hotspot for storms to form is in SW Oklahoma and they move up the Bailey Turnpike and go right into Moore. So yes, everywhere is prone but I would say Moore seems to be a bit more prone.

  9. Default Re: Living with tornadoes in Central Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunty View Post
    Are you in complete denial of reality in spite of recent events? Edmond and Norman tornadoes haven't been EF5. So if I had to make a choice I would stay out of Moore and live in either Moore or Edmond. Of course, you can't wait to say the next F5 tornado in Oklahoma could happen in either Edmond or Norman. Am I right on this?
    Are you in complete denial in the reality that EF5 damage in the Moore tornado was ONLY at the Briarwood Elementary area? You do understand that the entire thing wasn't an EF5 correct? I also assume you meant you would live in either Norman or Edmond...but why would you live in Norman who has had an EF4 in 2010 and another EF4 this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by jn1780 View Post
    There was an EF0 in east Edmond that grew into a large wedge tornado just east of Edmond. There was also the large Piedmont tornado west of Edmond a few years ago. So there's no reason OKC or any other metro area to not get hit with a large tornado other than luck. No scientific reasons anyway other the same reason central Oklahoma has a higher tornado threat. The probabilities across the main cities in central Ok would be roughly the same though.

    I have seen several times where other metro areas just barely avoided getting hit.
    Which was an EF5...but somehow people choose to remain ignorant of that fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    You are right in that its luck Edmond, Norman, or OKC proper haven't been hit with an EF5. However, Moore has been hit with multiple strong tornadoes in just the past 15 years. It seems like a hotspot for storms to form is in SW Oklahoma and they move up the Bailey Turnpike and go right into Moore. So yes, everywhere is prone but I would say Moore seems to be a bit more prone.
    Can I start bashing my head on the keyboard with these continued ignorant posts? Really people. A few of us have posted facts after facts on the tornado history for the OKC metro area the last couple of weeks. Is it really just too hard to comprehend or just lack of interest to actually read and retain facts?

    OKC proper hasn't been hit with an EF5? Well two come to mind right away. A strong tornado is also anything EF2 and above...violent is EF4 & 5. So let's just do strong tornadoes in the last 15 years in the Metro area...

    June 13, 1998 - F2 - Nichols Hills, NW OKC
    June 13, 1998 - F2 - N OKC, Frontier City
    Oct 4, 1998 - F2 - Moore, S OKC
    May 3, 1999 - F5 - Amber, Bridge Creek, S OKC, Moore, Del City, Midwest City
    May 3, 1999 - F2 - Choctaw
    May 8, 2003 - F4 - Moore, SE OKC, Del City, Midwest City
    May 9, 2003 - F3 - NE OKC, Jones
    March 29, 2007 - EF2 - NW OKC
    Feb 10, 2009 - EF2 - N OKC, Edmond
    May 10, 2010 - EF4 - N Norman, Moore, SE OKC, Harrah
    May 10, 2010 - EF4 - S Norman, Little Axe
    May 10, 2010 - EF2 - SE Norman, Little Axe
    May 10, 2010 - EF3 - NW Pott County
    May 10, 2010 - EF3 - Tecumseh, Seminole
    May 24, 2011 - EF4 - Chickasha, SW OKC
    May 24, 2011 - EF4 - Goldsby
    May 19, 2013 - EF4 - E Norman, Little Axe, Pink, Seminole
    May 19, 2013 - EF3 - Luther, Carney
    May 20, 2013 - EF5 - Newcastle, S OKC, Moore
    May 31, 2013 - EF5 - El Reno

    I might have missed one or two, but the data is out there if people want to fact check. So if you are keeping count on a city specific impact (so some tornadoes are going to be counted for more than one city)...

    OKC: 11
    Norman: 4
    Edmond: 1
    Moore: 5

    So looking at the numbers...OKC has been hit with more strong tornadoes than Moore, Norman, or Edmond...and actually more often than all 3 combined.

  10. #135

    Default Re: Living with tornadoes in Central Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by venture79 View Post
    So looking at the numbers...OKC has been hit with more strong tornadoes than Moore, Norman, or Edmond...and actually more often than all 3 combined.
    That is because OKC is spread out across 650 sq. miles. The bigger you make the target the easier it is to hit.

  11. Default Re: Living with tornadoes in Central Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Just the facts View Post
    That is because OKC is spread out across 650 sq. miles. The bigger you make the target the easier it is to hit.
    I understand that. Which also points to the more you develop areas the more frequent tornado strikes will be noticed.

  12. #137

    Default Re: Living with tornadoes in Central Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by venture79 View Post
    I understand that. Which also points to the more you develop areas the more frequent tornado strikes will be noticed.
    ... and since strength rating is based on wind damage who knows how many F4 and F5 there really have been - since they have to hit something to be classified and up until the last 30 years there wasn't much to hit.

  13. Default Re: Living with tornadoes in Central Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Just the facts View Post
    ... and since strength rating is based on wind damage who knows how many F4 and F5 there really have been - since they have to hit something to be classified and up until the last 30 years there wasn't much to hit.
    Mmmhmm.

  14. #139

    Default Re: Living with tornadoes in Central Oklahoma

    Clearly as can be seen below at least one states and one of our competitors is using the natural disaster angle to sway business. Their information includes information on Oklahoma and on tornadoes.

    About Economic Development in Clinton County


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    Tornados
    10 States Most at Risk for Major Disasters
    By Doug Whiteman, Bankrate.com
    May 28, 2013

    Some states find themselves in the crosshairs of disaster far more than others. Presidents have declared nearly 2,000 major disasters in the 50 states and the District of Columbia over the past 60 years as of April 2013, but a mere 10 states have been responsible for a third of that total. See if you live in one of these disaster-prone states — and if you do, you may want to review your insurance policies.
    10. Missouri


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    9. Arkansas


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    8. Kentucky

    The disaster roster in Kentucky has included landslides, mudslides and rockslides, along with flooding and tornadoes. The state was ripped up in 2008 by the remnants of Hurricane Ike. Another major disaster declaration involved a record snowfall in late 2004, and yet another stemmed from a 1981 series of chemical explosions in the Louisville sewers.
    Major disaster declarations since 1953: 56

    7. Alabama
    This Gulf Coast state has been battered by hurricanes, including Isaac in 2012, Gustav in 2008, Katrina and Dennis in 2005, and Ivan in 2004. But tornadoes in April 2011 rivaled the hurricanes for destructive power, lashing the state with winds that exceeded 210 mph and leaving about 250 people dead and an estimated $1.5 billion in damage.
    Major disaster declarations since 1953: 57

    6. Louisiana


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    Major disaster declarations since 1953: 60

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    Major disaster declarations since 1953: 65

    4. New York

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    Major disaster declarations since 1953: 67

    3. Oklahoma

    The recent monster tornado that blasted through the Oklahoma City suburbs is only the latest devastating storm to hit a state that recorded an average of 55 twisters per year since 1950. The worst tornado in recent history struck near Oklahoma City in May 1999 with unprecedented winds in excess of 300 mph that killed 36 people. Oklahoma also has endured severe winter storms, wildfires, floods and the 1995 terrorist bombing that killed 168 people at the Oklahoma City federal building.
    Major disaster declarations since 1953: 73

    2. California

    The nation’s most populous state also is one of the most disaster-prone thanks to wildfires, landslides, flooding, winter storms, severe freeze and even tsunami waves. But earthquakes are the disaster perhaps most closely associated with California. The worst in recent years have included a magnitude-6.9 quake near San Francisco in 1989 that killed 63 and a magnitude 6.7 quake in Southern California in 1994 that killed 61.
    Major disaster declarations since 1953: 78

    1. Texas

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    Major disaster declarations since 1953: 86

    Source: Federal Emergency Management Agency.

  15. #140

    Default Re: Living with tornadoes in Central Oklahoma

    There are so many companies relocating to Michigan because of their lack of natural disasters they just can't keep up.....

    They also neglect the fact that they have snow on the ground for 5-6 months a year which can create its own "adverse conditions".

  16. Default Re: Living with tornadoes in Central Oklahoma

    The last portion looks like a ranking based on the number of federal disaster declarations. If the state resisted the need to ask Washington for money after every disaster, and funded it itself, it wouldn't be ranked as highly.

  17. Default Re: Living with tornadoes in Central Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedogok View Post
    There are so many companies relocating to Michigan because of their lack of natural disasters they just can't keep up.....

    They also neglect the fact that they have snow on the ground for 5-6 months a year which can create its own "adverse conditions".
    The ski resorts there wish they had snow on the ground that long. They are lucky if they get a solid month...but I guess that just goes to show people down here also play stereotypes with weather.

    Also streets are cleaned almost immediately after any snow, so there aren't any "adverse conditions" that shut down cities for days like down here. I've seen plenty of overnight snowfalls of 6+ inches be completely cleared from all major highways by the morning rush. The complicating factors only come in when wind is driving the snow or its ongoing during the rush hour.

  18. #143

    Default Re: Living with tornadoes in Central Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedogok View Post
    There are so many companies relocating to Michigan because of their lack of natural disasters they just can't keep up.....

    They also neglect the fact that they have snow on the ground for 5-6 months a year which can create its own "adverse conditions".
    That’s not my point. My point is that we can do a lot more to reduce the impact of our weather problems in Oklahoma by being smarter about how and where we build and most of what would need can be done at low prices. We should follow the lead of others who have studied this issue at great depth.

  19. #144

    Default Re: Living with tornadoes in Central Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by venture79 View Post
    ...but I guess that just goes to show people down here also play stereotypes with weather.
    Yes they do, just as others do about our part of the world.
    But we can do something’s to help reduce the image of some of our stereotypes.

  20. #145

    Default Re: Living with tornadoes in Central Oklahoma

    I think ou48a is saying that Oklahoma is under the spotlight right now for how it handles the disaster -- and how it protects its people and infrastructure. This is a very reasonable statement. Perhaps, instead of jetting off to Paris for a convention, Mary Fallin should assemble a war room to determine how to protect our children in schools from tornadoes and how to improve our overall public safety in the event of a severe tornado hitting a major US city.

    If we simply "REBUILD!!!!" without including additional safety infrastructure we will rightly be judged as knuckledragging buffoons by most of the free world.

    The status quo can be changed with the right leadership. Let's quit arguing as if we're at a bar and admit that as a state we can do better to protect our citizens from tornadoes.

  21. #146

    Default Re: Living with tornadoes in Central Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedogok View Post
    The biggest problem with building stronger is (most) home builders don't want to anything different than they have always done it, they resist any change including accessibility even in homes for a disabled person (my wife has dealt with the a bunch). They always wanted to charge her ridiculous change fees even when nothing had been started because they felt they could. It is pretty much the same thing in trying to build more wind resistant (not just tornadoes) construction. The saving grace may be there aren't as many large, national home builders in OKC as there are in other markets and they may respond to a local market dynamic better than a D.R. Horton or Lennar. For the most part the "up sell" will always be finishes and such. I still think people ought to push for alternative building technologies over wood stick framing.
    I have heard this before. When there has been clear evidence showing that we can build stronger for many years’, and for low cost, attitudes like that are a big part of our problem and are not very professional.

  22. #147

    Default Re: Living with tornadoes in Central Oklahoma

    IMHO this is where public pressure from the grass roots is needed on our state and local leaders. But our State leaders are talking to some of the right people and have at least formed a state agency to set building codes

    This is from post # 127 in this thread.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In lightly regulated Oklahoma, Republican Governor Mary Fallin has ruled out requiring a safe room or shelter in every school as too expensive, despite the recent deaths, prompting criticism from Democrats who say she is ignoring school safety.

    Asked in a telephone interview if Oklahoma would toughen its building codes, Fallin said: "That is certainly something we are going to look at this summer. What makes sense. What is doable. What's not doable." She said that people have limited budgets and the cost would be a consideration.

    Oklahoma has been in touch with Joplin officials to ask what it did after the 2011 tornado there killed 161 people, Fallin said. Steve Cope, building and neighborhoods supervisor for Joplin, said the city made a few upgrades to building codes that did not add much to constructions costs.

    Unlike its neighbors Texas and Kansas, Oklahoma has formed a state agency to set building codes. The first statewide rules went into effect on residential construction only two years ago so they have had little time to work.

  23. #148

    Default Re: Living with tornadoes in Central Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by venture79 View Post
    Are you in complete denial in the reality that EF5 damage in the Moore tornado was ONLY at the Briarwood Elementary area? You do understand that the entire thing wasn't an EF5 correct? I also assume you meant you would live in either Norman or Edmond...but why would you live in Norman who has had an EF4 in 2010 and another EF4 this year?
    Yes, I'm aware tornadoes don't stay at the same F strength in their paths. I've ridden in a car through a tornado officially rated F3. But I bet at the time it was only F1 or F2, because the car stayed grounded and didn't go tumbling multiple times while for the most part, most of the roofs on buildings in the area stayed on.

    Rather than Edmond or Norman, I'd feel safer living in Stillwater, because never before in its history has it been hit by a tornado stronger than F3. Of course, people can't wait to say that each and every town in Oklahoma is subject to an F5 tornado. But then who knows how many towns in Oklahoma have never been hit by a tornado?

  24. #149

    Default Re: Living with tornadoes in Central Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by soonerguru View Post
    I think ou48a is saying that Oklahoma is under the spotlight right now for how it handles the disaster -- and how it protects its people and infrastructure. This is a very reasonable statement. Perhaps, instead of jetting off to Paris for a convention, Mary Fallin should assemble a war room to determine how to protect our children in schools from tornadoes and how to improve our overall public safety in the event of a severe tornado hitting a major US city.

    If we simply "REBUILD!!!!" without including additional safety infrastructure we will rightly be judged as knuckledragging buffoons by most of the free world.

    The status quo can be changed with the right leadership. Let's quit arguing as if we're at a bar and admit that as a state we can do better to protect our citizens from tornadoes.
    Probably most Republican state legislators want to pass on the responsibility for safer schools on to the school boards who will get voters to vote on bonds to pay for the cost of making all local schools safe from tornadoes. But I wonder how easy that will be for towns that have been gradually losing population and fading away? Since nothing much was done, other than tax incentives offered for storm shelters after the 1999 & 2003 Moore tornadoes, while Democrats dominated both sides of the State Capitol, why expect Republicans to do more?

    Republicans want to make state government smaller. And so by cutting income taxes and replacing them with nothing, it will act to restrict how much state government can grow, along with its ability to respond to sudden infrastructure needs. (So I hope civil engineers feel that the huge dams in the state don't need major fixing for decades longer.) Also the Republican aversion to borrowing doesn't help matters, especially while bond rates are low.

    Smaller government should mean release from needless regulations based on nothing but nonsense, such as those based on alcohol. It should also mean fewer obstructions to a life based on freedom and liberty. Making government smaller shouldn't have to mean reducing its ability to respond to serious infrastructure needs as they arise.

    I wonder how big of a state disaster is required before substantial withdraws are allowed to be made from the state rainy day fund?

  25. #150

    Default Re: Living with tornadoes in Central Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunty View Post
    Probably most Republican state legislators want to pass on the responsibility for safer schools on to the school boards who will get voters to vote on bonds to pay for the cost of making all local schools safe from tornadoes. But I wonder how easy that will be for towns that have been gradually losing population and fading away? Since nothing much was done, other than tax incentives offered for storm shelters after the 1999 & 2003 Moore tornadoes, while Democrats dominated both sides of the State Capitol, why expect Republicans to do more?

    Republicans want to make state government smaller. And so by cutting income taxes and replacing them with nothing, it will act to restrict how much state government can grow, along with its ability to respond to sudden infrastructure needs. (So I hope civil engineers feel that the huge dams in the state don't need major fixing for decades longer.) Also the Republican aversion to borrowing doesn't help matters, especially while bond rates are low.

    Smaller government should mean release from needless regulations based on nothing but nonsense, such as those based on alcohol. It should also mean fewer obstructions to a life based on freedom and liberty. Making government smaller shouldn't have to mean reducing its ability to respond to serious infrastructure needs as they arise.

    I wonder how big of a state disaster is required before substantial withdraws are allowed to be made from the state rainy day fund?
    I don’t know the qualifying factors but FEAM will help pay for up to 75% of the cost of certified school shelters in some cases.

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