Graffiti problem downtown??

[MadMonk]

It's great that they have talent, but if your art harms other's property, you're nothing more than a talented criminal.

[keving]

Oh that's right...they're victims, how could we forget.

I never said they were victims.

I don't know, but I was taught that not having something was no excuse for taking someone elses stuff or messing it up.

They are not "taking someone elses stuff". They might be "messing it up" but that is subjective. To them, they might not see it that way, which is why they need guidance, such as a community program or perhaps an outreach program from some local art galleries.

Maybe that should be our tack w/ Iran, they just need a constructive outlet for their nuclear ambitions, I'm sure they go along w/ it. Meanwhile, let's all sing kum-bah-yah, pass the earth shoes and send little candle-laden boats down the river at sunset.

Wow! Okay, a little off topic. If you would like to create a let's bomb Iran and the hippies thread, go right ahead.

These graffiti types need to be dealt w/ for the Vandals that they ARE.

Of course, they should be held accountable for their actions. But they also need guidance in how to constructively do what they like to do.

[Midtowner]

keving --

I have a hard time believing 25 year olds need to be 'guided constructively' in order for them to know that spray painting private proprety creating tremendous expense to other private individuals who are just trying to make a living is immoral.

This graffiti is extremely selfish and immature. The above poster who claims to be somehow involved is 25 years old.

Most of the "art" I have seen around town is crap anyhow. If these 'taggings' are supposed to convince anyone that we're talking about talented artists, they're really missing the mark.

If they want, I can perform some art upon their private property. Maybe writing stupid things with my car keys on their car doors could be an artistic 'happening.'

[keving]

I have not seen the graffiti in question but have been referencing graffiti in general.

[the pledge]

:artist you can check out my some of my artwork on my myspace page(www.myspace.com/kasone405) and you can email me at (kasone405@cox.net). i would love to do any work.

do you have the pictures hosted elsewhere? I don't have a myspace account, so I can't see your work.

I personally think some graffiti is awesome. Consider that not all graffiti is necessarily done on the side of someone else's building as vandalism. There are truly talented tag artists out there participating in legitimate contests and have their work shared all over the internet.

I personally think a large wall designated as a "graffiti wall" for true artists to showcase their talents (gang-related tagging would not be tolerated) would be great for OKC--it would add some vibrance to the city. Similar ideas have been implemented elsewhere.

[Pete]

Police Target Taggers

By Joe Wertz
The Oklahoman

He calls himself “Cier” and posts pictures of his artwork on a Web site to show off his talent.

His name has spread through the city on the sides of planes, trains, buildings and billboards.

He boasts that he cannot be stopped.

That claim is about to be put to the test. Oklahoma City police say Cier is a vandal and part of a “tagging war” that has cost the city more than $65,000 - and they say they are close to catching him.

“These people obviously don’t care about the city or how it looks,” said Oklahoma City police Sgt. Paco Balderrama.

The graffiti competition is between groups from Oklahoma City and Tulsa, Balderrama said. The two groups compete by spray-painting their nicknames or “tags” across the city, he said.

The larger or more elaborate the tag, the better the bragging rights, Balderrama said.

After tagging a building, the vandals take a photograph and post it online at MySpace.com as a challenge to the other group, Balderrama said. That could be their undoing. “They post them online to glorify what they have done,” Balderrama said. “But they are just providing us with documentation of the crimes.”

Cier’s tag was part of the graffiti that police found spray-painted on planes at Wiley Post Airport on Aug. 21, Balderrama said. Five planes were damaged, including a restored Douglas A-26 Invader that was being kept at the airport.

Police have not linked the graffiti to gang activity, Balderrama said.

Rick Dowell said several buildings owned by his company, Dowell Properties Inc., were hit by taggers about a week ago.

Dowell said thousands of dollars were spent removing graffiti from the Midtown Plaza at 500 N Walker Ave., and removing the graffiti was difficult because of the buildings’ historic natures.

“It’s a real shame. We are doing everything we can to keep this city and build this city, and all these nitwits do is tear it down,” he said. “It’s so senseless, it makes you want to scream.”

Cier and two other taggers, who go by the aliases Sage and Helok, are thought to be from Oklahoma City, Balderrama said. The Tulsa taggers are thought to go by the names Norte, Bepop and Ozone, Balderrama said.

No arrests have been made in connection with the vandalism, Balderrama said.

[mburlison]

Brilliant Keving, your searing intellect should be an example for us all.

It's vandalism, there is nothing "subjective" about that.

[Midtowner]

mburlison,

Remember what Hillary Clinton said? It takes a village to raise a child!

Seriously, in a not-so-sarcastic tone now, I think that a graffiti park, might be awesome for the city. Or perhaps we could take the municipal skate park and legalize graffiti there? (or would that pose a hazard?)

There probably are constructive ways to allow people to express themselves, and in turn, they could create diversions within the city. The question, I think, is whether these morons would avail themselves of such services when the opportunity to vandalize highly visible public and private structures is still available?

[mburlison]

Obviously we disagree, but I don't see why a park rewarding people who selfishly and without regard to law and order spray graffiti. It's tantamount to giving out clean needles to addicts or providing handouts to people so they won't rob a bank. I'm just not convinced that these souls have 'no place at all' to express themselves save for destroying (whoops, I'm being objective again) "decorating" other people's property . I agree some of these people have talent, I doubt pen and pencil or paint and canvass cost much more than the bling they wear or money they spend on the paint in the first place.

It used to be that people were held accountable for their actions, that's all I'm saying.

[Midtowner]

The graffiti park concept is really seperate from these guys. I hope that they have to pay some major restitution and do some serious hard time for this crap.

I would love to see the D.A. make examples out of them.

As to graffiti in general? If it's done in a legal way, it can be a good thing.

[cier]

hey everyone. i understand that this forum is probably old. but i notice that there is a lot of debate going on about this. i am the guy that did all of this. i have already been caught, and im about to be doing 90 days in jail.

just to clear it up. it is not gang related. i am not in a gang nor have i ever been in a gang..
and since all of this happened with the news i am now doing legal walls. you can go and see one on sw 29th. we have 3.

and how can you even compare graffiti to the war in iraq. you are just ignorant.

haha

check out my music and my art. www.myspace.com/cierkills

holler

[cier]

oh yeah. you can either call it art or vandalism. but there is a huge difference in designing intricate letters and using colors to bring them than keying your name in someones car. it is obvious that graffiti has a bad name. but atleast think about what you are saying before you make retarded analogies that do not apply...


here is some of the work i have done since.. ALL LEGAL
you judge whether its art or not...

[Todd]

Intresting thread...I'm curious what your motivation is?

[Todd]

What do you charge for doing a wall?

[sweetdaisy]

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out what the motivation to spray paint someone's airplane would be. Please do tell.

[Karried]

LOL, Todd, I see the wheels turning.. next thing we know we'll all be walking through Bricktown and see a Gigantic mural OKCTALK.. it works for me!

[CuatrodeMayo]

I like. Is there a price per square foot?



Hooray for spray art! Long live the rebellion!

[Watson410]

I think it would be really cool if Downtown OKC had a huge wall that artist could do graffiti on... kinda like the wall they have in Vinice Beach, CA. There is alot of really good artwork on it and it changes everyday. That way artist can show off their talent and it'll be perfectly legal.

[John]

Graffiti is vandalism if done on someone elses property without their permission. Simple as that.

It is 'artwork' (depending on the painter) if done on your own property or if someone hires/allows you to do work on their property.

[jbrown84]

Graffiti is vandalism if done on someone elses property without their permission. Simple as that.

It is 'artwork' (depending on the painter) if done on your own property or if someone hires/allows you to do work on their property.

Exactly. Cier, you seem to be good at what you do, and I would welcome it as long as owners approve.

[metro]

yes, its great cool work, and i support it ONLY if you have a property owner's permission. I'm curious where on SW 29th is some of your work?

[cier]

my motivation behind it is...

i like to see my name in places. i like to climb billboards and sneak into train yards, and climb on top of roofs just to put my name there. its something that very few people do or can do in this city.

i never said that painting on someone elses property was right. i know that it is illegal. i sometimes even get a bad feeling after i do certain spots. and i usually never hit a privately owned business. ((with an exception from what you seen on the news..to me it looked like the builsing was empty and runned down. i didnt know about the historical significance..)) i almost always hit a business where i know the people that own it can afford to paint over it. i look at it like a cause and effect relationship. the government takes money from us and puts it in their pocket. they dont put the money into the community to fund schools..or anything. so basically what i do. is use my tax dollars to paint over my graffiti. i see it differently i guess...

and i didnt paint the airplanes. i never claimed to paint the airplanes. and i never painted the airplanes. the news had it all wrong. they pretty much put together a horrible story to make everyone believe that something is going on when its just graffiti. they made the public believe that i had murdered someone. it wasnt that serious. well atleast i dont believe it was. others may disagree, and from what i read on this forum is that most of you disagree..

i dont charge anything to do a legal wall. if you give me the permission to do what i LOVE to do, then i wont charge you anything. ill paint whatever it is that you want me to paint. (lettering only) pretty much. thats what i like to do. i dont claim to be an artist. i dont claim to be an illustrator. thats obviously why im not in art school somewhere and thats why i dont sell my work. i love graffiti and i am never going to stop doing it. as long as i have a legal wall, i wont do illegal graffiti, but when the legal walls go away. i will write graffiti else where...

...

i start my 90 days in county tomorrow, i always have a 1200 fine, and i have a 2 year deferred sentence, plus court costs. jsut incase any of you guys were wondering what happened with everything that was on the news..

sorry if you think that my graffiti looks like crap
i love it
and i dont talk crap about you quilting a crappy sweater that no one will ever wear..

holllllllerrr

[cier]

and oh yeah. id definately do an OKC TALK piece for you....

<H2> FOR FREE <h2>

[cier]

Myspace.com


watch the video of me at the legal wall

holler

[Karried]

i almost always hit a business where i know the people that own it can afford to paint over it.

I was actually pulling for you until this line. We own a business. You would vandalize our property just so you can see your name?

That's not cool.