University Town Center

[G22]

Does anyone have pictures or renderings of the proposed Village Center and the 50-foot Legacy Place iconic tower? Will the Legacy Place Building be the main retail building for the Village Center? Is there any word on when any of this will start? Are there any plans to include residential housing on the top floors in the Village Center?

[vaflyer]

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The following pictures are from the developers meeting with Norman city council in March 2013.

[HangryHippo]

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Where did you find these?

Also, I'm surprised there's not going to be any housing at all in here. Maybe to the north?

[Plutonic Panda]

My o' my how I wish Edmond would get something like this! Happy for Norman, but jealous at the same time. Hope it passes, this is Frisco like shopping here!!!!!!!

[catch22]

All that unused parking in those renderings. Lots of people walking around. Seems developers will do whatever they can to make strip malls look good in renderings.

Too bad they don't show the full parking lot of cars and no people walking around.

[jedicurt]

ugh... Norman deserves better than this... sadly those in charge do not agree. Dont get me wrong, it sure looks nice... but it's just not what we should be striving for. i agree, housing should be included in this project, and a much more urban fill

[Plutonic Panda]

Wow, I thought it looked really nice. There has to be parking for cars, esp. in a suburban environment. From what I can see, it looks to be pretty high quality development.

[catch22]

Looks can be deceiving, especially with renderings. This design might appear nice but it is no different than the rest of UNP. Strip mall.

[Geographer]

Wow, I thought it looked really nice. There has to be parking for cars, esp. in a suburban environment. From what I can see, it looks to be pretty high quality development.

This type of development is unsustainable and will end up like every other strip center type development. Just look at the strip development on Ed Noble Parkway...I bet it was nice when it was first built. I hate that UNP is just another strip center with some pretty brick buildings. It's not walkable, its only drivable and it is not a "town center" as it should be. No housing, just more chain stores and restaurants.

To address parking...theres ALWAYS more parking than what is needed or required. Parking creates barriers for walkability.

[OKCbrew]

You know, I've always wondered what the resistance is to parking garages here in Oklahoma. I'm sure it's just ignorance on my part, but it seems like even in a suburban development like UNP you'd get huge benefits from having maybe a 3 or 4 level garage. Visually you'd avoid a lot of ugly parking lots by stacking them and everything could fit together a bit nicer. As a patron you'd be parked in the shade (huge benefit in this state, right?) and be able to walk short distances to the shops all while still being able to maintain your suburban experience of driving up and down bloody Robinson street. Wouldn't everyone win? Maybe it's cost or something. All I know is I just don't understand how it all ends up like this.

[Geographer]

You know, I've always wondered what the resistance is to parking garages here in Oklahoma. I'm sure it's just ignorance on my part, but it seems like even in a suburban development like UNP you'd get huge benefits from having maybe a 3 or 4 level garage. Visually you'd avoid a lot of ugly parking lots by stacking them and everything could fit together a bit nicer. As a patron you'd be parked in the shade (huge benefit in this state, right?) and be able to walk short distances to the shops all while still being able to maintain your suburban experience of driving up and down bloody Robinson street. Wouldn't everyone win? Maybe it's cost or something. All I know is I just don't understand how it all ends up like this.

It's mostly cost...building a parking garage instead of a surface parking lot is astronomically more expensive...and when you're in a state where land is relatively cheap, why would you build up when you can easily build out? I hate arguing that point because im totally in favor of parking garages but im realistic

[OKCbrew]

It's mostly cost...building a parking garage instead of a surface parking lot is astronomically more expensive...and when you're in a state where land is relatively cheap, why would you build up when you can easily build out? I hate arguing that point because im totally in favor of parking garages but im realistic

Yeah, I figured it would have to be cost. Feels like local developers are focused on quantity and quick returns over quality and long term sustainability. Really bums me out sometimes.

[venture]

This type of development is unsustainable and will end up like every other strip center type development. Just look at the strip development on Ed Noble Parkway...I bet it was nice when it was first built. I hate that UNP is just another strip center with some pretty brick buildings. It's not walkable, its only drivable and it is not a "town center" as it should be. No housing, just more chain stores and restaurants.

To address parking...theres ALWAYS more parking than what is needed or required. Parking creates barriers for walkability.

Keep in mind the "town center" isn't even built yet, so can't really complain about that right now.

[G22]

Would you like the lifestyle center if it was designed similar to The Shops at La Cantera in San Antonio? The Shops at La Cantera | America's Premier Shopping Places Photo Gallery at the bottom of the page.

[HangryHippo]

That's a beautiful shopping center, but were missing the boat by not including housing.

[Spartan]

It'll be interesting to see if they deliver on this or if it ends up being hype.

Track record......

To call this a lifestyle center is kind of a joke.

[Rover]

It is a long way from being fully developed. We want everything completed yesterday.

[Spartan]

I am not talking about just what has been developed.

Why is there this persistent refusal to LOOK at renderings and site plans. I see parking. Not lifestyle. It's that simple.

Yes, lifestyle centers need parking, too. But it usually isn't the first thing you see when you look at them. There is no attempt here to build a shopping center that other states are building in 2013.

[G.Walker]

UNP has developed into a modern stripmall with nice landscaping and parking lots.

[vaflyer]

The UNP TIF district was formed to be economic development tool for the City of Norman. The logic was to build a high-quality development that would be attractive to tenants that would be a regional draw. People from around the region then would shop there and pay sales taxes to the City of Norman. For the regional draw part to work, the development ideally needs to be near a freeway (the UNP is) and it must have ample parking because people outside the City of Norman must drive to get there. One can debate whether or not the UNP is actually a regional draw, but the decision to have ample parking is consistent with the UNP’s intended purpose of being a regional draw.

[G22]

I wish more people would include real life examples of what they want to see in UNP. Do you want Bal Harbour Shops, Third Street Promenade, Utica Square, Pearl Street Mall, a mini version of Madrid, or a something you've seen on the East Coast?

I think it would be great if UNP developed into something similar to The Shops at La Cantera but with housing added to the second & third story. The UNP lifestyle center should have plenty of parking in the general area but the main shopping area can easly be built to promote walking. Numerous shade structures and trees were included when they built The Shops at La Cantera so when you are walking around outside in July you aren't melting and you aren't angry that your car is a block away.
It is possible to create the best of both worlds. I know that isn't happening at the moment but please share your vision.

[Mississippi Blues]

Would you like the lifestyle center if it was designed similar to The Shops at La Cantera in San Antonio? The Shops at La Cantera | America's Premier Shopping Places Photo Gallery at the bottom of the page.

I would love to see something like that here. It's the first outdoor shopping center I've seen that has a Nordstrom or Neiman Marcus, among others.

[kevinpate]

My vision would be drop the CVS/Walgreen mentality on business recruiting. Three mattress hawkers, even if one is larger and nicer than the other two, in a 1/4 mile is a bit much. Chipotle across from Qdoba? Logan's next to Chedders? Thus far it's been pretty much the Magnificently Mundune Mile of Eh.

[Questor]

Just speaking for myself, I want what was shown in the original pitch for UNP... I posted links and the works many pages back... But basically the photos of a real life style center, I think in Scottsdale, were thrown out there for reference or inspiration by the developers. What they've built doesn't look like that or any life style center I have been to. Their latest renderings have some inspiration from that very first pitch, but it's clearly a downgrade.

The original pitch also hinted at world class or at least US gourmet restaurants. I'd love to see something there from Wolfgang Puck or Emeril Legasse, but I know it'll never happen since we never set such lofty goals around here. At this point we'd be lucky to see a PF Changs.

[Chicken In The Rough]

So far, UNP looks like a Norman version of Belle Isle Station. I'm holding out that it will improve, but to date, it's a complete disappointment. It's actually not as bad as Belle Isle. Belle Isle pisses me off every time I drive by - I'm just disappointed and somewhat indifferent to UNP. These renderings demonstrate better design than we've seen before, but I still cannot tell if this is anything more than a dressed-up big box center. Belle Isle and other OKC-area developments have killed all the faith I once had in developers and city planners.