Shift in Transporation Trends

[Just the facts]

Well then take it for what it is worth. If you want to discredit the study because you think a few high-end luxury cars or median incomes vs. average incomes are skewing the data so much that it results in only one city having an income that can buy the average selling price of a car then more power to you. You can do the study yourself if you want.

Take the average OKC family income and calulate what 10% of their gross income is.
Divide that by 12 to determine what they can afford for a monthly payment
Go to a loan caluclator and see how much you can borrow at that monthly rate for 4 years (and you can pick the interest rate).
Then find out what kind of car cost that much.

[Just the facts]

I did it for OKC.

OKC median household income: $47,023 - I had to use median because I couldn't find average houshold income
10% of that is $4,702.30
per month is $391.86
At 3.99% interest for 48 months is a loan of $17,349
Add in the 20% down payment for a total car price of $20,818.80

That means half the families in OKC can afford a car more expensive and half can afford a car less expensive. Mind you that is just one car for the family. If they need 2 cars they can only afford a $10,414.40 car. Of course, the 20/4/10 rule is just a rule and lots of people do extend the payment past 4 years which has now led to 25% of all trade-ins having negative equity (but who's counting).

So what kind of car can you get for $20,818.80?

It will get you base model Dodge Avenger or a mid-level Ford Focus, but be careful on the options.

[Rover]

Just curious JTF, do you own a car? If so, why?

[Just the facts]

Yes I own a car - in fact, 2 of them. Why? Because I bought a house that requires each adult to own a car. Now fortunately for me I have been able to change my lifestyle so that I only drive 2 or 3 times a week, but I still have to drive. So why did I buy a house that requires every person over 18 to own a car? Because 10 years ago when I bought it I didn't know any better. I was just a sheep following what everyone else was doing.

[Buffalo Bill]

I did it for OKC.

OKC median household income: $47,023 - I had to use median because I couldn't find average houshold income
10% of that is $4,702.30
per month is $391.86
At 3.99% interest for 48 months is a loan of $17,349
Add in the 20% down payment for a total car price of $20,818.80

That means half the families in OKC can afford a car more expensive and half can afford a car less expensive. Mind you that is just one car for the family. If they need 2 cars they can only afford a $10,414.40 car. Of course, the 20/4/10 rule is just a rule and lots of people do extend the payment past 4 years which has now led to 25% of all trade-ins having negative equity (but who's counting).

So what kind of car can you get for $20,818.80?

It will get you base model Dodge Avenger or a mid-level Ford Focus, but be careful on the options.

Of course this scenario is that a household is buying a brand new car every 4 years, and that presumably that vehicle has only 20% of its original equity at the end of that period.

I'm nearly 50 and have only purchased 2 new vehicles in my entire life. There are plenty of decent vehicles that can be purchased for nearly $21k, ones that should provide well past 4 years of service to the new owners.

[Just the facts]

I think the jist of story is that the market for new car buyers is being restricted to the upper income groups. That is leaving an increasing number of people out of the new car market. Obviously 99% of OKC population has a car because the city requires it so the used car market is picking up the slack. However, more and more people are deciding that having a car (new or used) is costing them a lot of money that they could be spending on other items, or saving. As gas prices continue to climb it is really hitting home for more and more people.

Just for comparison, only 5% of the people can afford the average new home price.

[Plutonic Panda]

This is cool. NYC set to launch largest bike-sharing program in the US | Fox News

[Plutonic Panda]

Now this is freakin' cool. A tube transport system that could travel up to 4,000 MPH and get from NYC to LA in 45mins!!!!!!!!!

Futuristic High-Speed Tube Travel Could Take You From New York to Los Angeles in 45 Minutes

[ljbab728]

I vote for this instead. It would be much faster.

[Plutonic Panda]

As long as all the parts of your body ended up in the same place you did, and attached lol

[ljbab728]

As long as all the parts of your body ended up in the same place you did, and attached lol

You mean sorta like this>

[Just the facts]

10 states are now looking to tax electric and alternative-fuel vehicles to make up for the reduction in transportation taxes they avoid paying by not using gasoline.

North Carolina is joining a growing number of states exploring new fees for hybrid and electric car owners to help make up for revenue those drivers aren’t paying in gas taxes on their fuel-efficient vehicles.

...

But those revenues haven’t kept up with rising construction costs, falling 41 percent in real value at the federal level since they were last increased 18 years ago, according to the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy. The same non-partisan research group estimates that state and local gas-tax revenue fell 7 percent to $38 billion between 2004 and 2010.

...

Plug In America supports a vehicle-miles tax, and Friedland said his organization swayed Washington lawmakers to include a study of that policy in the state’s own bill targeting alternative-fuel vehicles.

“Fundamentally, the mechanism exists (for charging a miles-traveled tax), but I don’t know of any states that are currently doing that yet,” he said. “We’re really on the edge of this, because we’re for once actually watching fuel consumption going down, and that’s why we’re watching these taxes come up.”

Berry Jenkins of the Carolinas Association of General Contractors said bigger reforms are ultimately needed to address infrastructure in the long term. He’s part of a coalition of businesses and regional transit groups that endorses miles-traveled taxes. The problem, he said, are concerns that they system would require intrusive new technologies and that fuels apprehension among political leaders.

I still don't see why paying a mileage tax is being made out to be so darn complicated. Every car in US has to get a tag renewal done every year. Just report the mileage at the time of renewal and pay the tax. If you don't want to pay the tax all at once setup a monthly payment based on the previous years usage and then at renewal time either get a credit back or pay the overage - then reset the monthly payment based on the new annual total. If you sell a car (or trade it) the mileage gets reported to the state and you pay the amount driven before you sold the car. How hard is that? No tracking devices needed (well there is but it is already installed on every car since 1910 - the odometer).

[Plutonic Panda]

New York Gets Citi Bike - In Photos: 10 Cities Where Bicycles Rule The Streets - Forbes

[Plutonic Panda]

How America's love for cars is changing | News OK

[Plutonic Panda]

Posted this in the Uber thread, but thought it was also an appropriate discussion for this thread as well.

If You Drive Fewer Than 9,480 Miles Per Year, It's Cheaper To Take An Uber Everywhere Than To Own A Car

Read more: Is Uber Cheaper Than Owning A Car? - Business Insider

[Urbanized]

Honestly, if I didn't have a company car and require it for business errand I would do just that, combined with my already-regular, year-'round motorcycle/scooter (and hopefully soon, bicycle) rides to and from work. My car is nearly three years old and has barely 20K on it, and I've driven just 3K since the first of May.

[DoctorTaco]

Honestly, if I didn't have a company car and require it for business errand I would do just that, combined with my already-regular, year-'round motorcycle/scooter (and hopefully soon, bicycle) rides to and from work. My car is nearly three years old and has barely 20K on it, and I've driven just 3K since the first of May.

If I didn't have little kids I'd ditch an auto as well and use Uber or TimeCar. But taking car seats in and out is a MAJOR PIA.

[Mr. Cotter]

Really interesting, and nice to see a formula. If it weren't for the fact that my car is 15 years old, and there's nothing left to depreciate, and my employer pays for my parking whether I use it or not, there's not a scenario where Uber saves me money. But when the time comes to put my car out of its misery, I'll have to remember this.