Bank of America

[Sooner Golf]

I just thought I would let ebryone know what a terrible institution BOA is.

I recently got a car loan at a locally owned bank which would automatically debit my account at BOA for my nomthly payment. The local bank accidentally debited the account 7 days prior to when we had discussed and it caused me to be overdrawn. This was the first time I have ever been overdrawn. When I called the local bank, they immediately returned the debit and apologized for their mistake.

Back at BOA however, things were a little bit different. Even though they knew this was a mistake by another bank and the money was returned the next morning, BOA is till going to charge me 5 $33 fees. That is $165! When i talked to a banker at Bank of America he would see what he could do, but said it was up to the computer.

The computer! Can you belive this! A computer is making decisions for people at bank of America! What a joke.

Just so you know the local bank has offered to pay the fees for me if Bank of America will not refund the charges. I am closing my account at Bank of America and moving to the local bank.

I know I am a small fry, but this is no way to treat people. I suggest that if you have accounts and any of these big national banks, you move to the local banks like NBC Bank, Quail Creek Bank and Kirkpatrick Bank.

[keving]

I think I would go after the bank that made the early debit in the first place. It's their fault, not BoA's. Why should BoA have to pay for a mistake made by somebody else?

DISCLAIMER: I do not work for BoA nor any other bank but do work in the banking industry.

[Midtowner]

Sooner, I'm not sure what your problem is. You were overdrawn according to BOA. You signed up for an account with specific terms stating that you owed $33/day for being overdrawn. You then signed up for a direct draft on your account.

Now, personally, I have the same thing. However, I have a backup savings account tied to my checking accounts just in case this happens.

It was reasonably foreseeable that your local bank, or someone else would draw on your account when they weren't supposed to.

The only people who are really at fault here are you for not having a backup account to draft from (would have maybe cost you $5.00 for the draft instead of $165), or perhaps it's partially local bank's fault for drafting your account early. As far as BOA goes, I'd say that either you or your local bank owe them $165.

If they do refund your money, their computer is very nice.

[Sooner Golf]

As I stated the local bank has accepted responsibility and offered to pay the fees for me. I guess no one read that part.

I just think it is chicken sh*t for a bank the size of BOA to gouge me for $165 when they were aware of the situation and the money was returned within 24 hours.

What is amazing to me is that everything at BOA is decided by a computer rather than an actual person. I would be willing to bet if they ever made a mistake god forbid, they would not offer to pay my fees. I guess customer service is dead.

[Sooner Golf]

Why should BoA have to pay for a mistake made by somebody else?

They are not paying anything, I and the local bank have asked them to reverse the charges since it was a result of an error by another bank.

[SoonerDave]

I *sorta* agree with Midtowner on this one, but not entirely. BOA has clean hands. It's the local bank that blew it. And the fact that they've offered to pay the fees is IMHO the proper way it should be resolved.

I don't agree, however, that it was "reasonably foreseeable" that there would be an unauthorized/premature draw on the account. Using that logic, it could be considered your fault that a bank made an authorized electronic debit from your account for an incorrect amount, say $10000 instead of $100.00, and caused you to be overdrawn...

-SoonerDave

[Easy180]

sooner...don't write off all large natl banks because of one bad one...BOA wasn't out anything because you paid the o/d back by another deposit I assume

wife is a mgr at another natl bank here and refunds o/d fees all the time...especially if it was a clear error on another bank's part AND it was a first occurrence...of course she wouldn't refund them if it was just a bookkeeping mistake or oversight by the customer, but this is a valid reason to make the customer happy and refund

I say close it out and move on

[Sooner Golf]

wife is a mgr at another natl bank here and refunds o/d fees all the time...especially if it was a clear error on another bank's part AND it was a first occurrence

This was pretty much my point. The fact that a computer would be making the decision whether or not to return my fees rather than a person was what upset me the most. There is zero customer service at BOA and it was a frustrating experience.

[Easy180]

sooner...of course the computer actually charges you when your account is overdrawn...thanks captain obvious ...sure you thought someone sat in their HQ and manually charged 1000's of fees every day

but that is the lamest way to tell you to pi** off...the mgr does have the ability to refund...but he is likely judged on profitablity of the branch and o/d fees are a big $$ maker...still should ALWAYS refund them in your case...now if it happened again is another story

[traxx]

If at all possible avoid all automatic drafts. Your bank, cox cable, og&e and all your other bills will tell you that automatic bill payment is the most convenient option. It's only convenient for them as you found out the hard way. I've had several companies try to sign me up for that and I refuse every time and have never been sorry for it (much to their consternation).

If you can, get into a credit union, because they are just that, a credit union not a business like a bank is. A bank answers to a board of directors and investors, not you. Credit Unions are there on your behalf. That's not to say that something might not go wrong at a credit union, but you usually have more recourse and they tend to listen better.

The only thing I do automatic is the deposit of my paycheck. That's super convenient and it usually goes in a day or two before it's supposed to.

If I could I wouldn't use any financial institution at all, but to pay my monthly bills that's the easiest thing and I decide when the check is written, not some computer. Otherwise, I do all my day-to-day dealings in cash such as groceries, clothes, entertainment, co-pays etc. I never use an atm. I used to use all that stuff but now that I do cash and a credit union I don't have all the receipts and atm stubs to keep up with and it's really simplified everything. This system also works better if you don't have a lot of debt like car payments and stuff.

Sorry for the long post but thought it might be helpful.

[Easy180]

I'm the complete opposite...have everything I can on auto debit...avoids stamps and also late fees if the check is lost or sent too late

Don't get me started with credit unions...it's unfair they can provide banking services while not being heavily regulated like banks are...not an even playing field...and now all you have to be is a human and you can join one

You might get more personal service at one, but they lack the amount of products that large nat'l banks can provide

[PUGalicious]

I happen to be a big believer in automatic bill payments. It helps me not to forget to make a payment for something, especially those times I'm out-of-town around the time the bills are due. It's also just plain convenient -- no stamps, no check-writing, no trips to the post office, etc. Under most circumstances, it's a very convenient service. I rarely have had problems, and certainly not any like Sooner Golf.

Unlike what traxx says, the bill payment is not only convenient to the companies, it's very convenient for me. It also helps to keep their costs down which makes it easier for them to continue to keep costs down for the services they provide me. And, there are never any issues surrounding "late payments" when you're on automatic payment scheduled through that company.

traxx's assessment is a rather pessimistic and paranoid one.

Disclaimer: I am not currently employed by any local financial institution.

[keving]

Then again... I think it comes down to personal experience and timing.

See, I've had better customer service at the national banks than any of the local banks. I also love the national bank's website. They have a ton of features where the local ones... well... sucked.

Unfortunately, great customer service seems to be hit and miss. After all, we are relying on humans here. Sometimes we have bad days.

[traxx]

Pessimistic maybe, paranoid no. How hard is it to remember to pay bills? It's called responsibility.

All I can say is that I've been screwed by banks too many times. For instance, one time a customer made a withdrawal and they took it from my account instead of his, hence I became overdrawn, had returned checks, it became a snowball rolling downhill and was a huge mess to clean up.

My way is just an alternative and one that has never let me down. I don't have any late pays on any of my bills because I do it like clockwork (and yes I'm as busy as everyone else with 3 sons, two in school, their sports and extra curricular activities on top of job and everything else) but I've had several friends get screwed with the automatic withdrawal and myself included.

I'm not saying it's the right way for everyone, just offering an alternative that may help him out. And my credit union has all the features I need, but I don't require alot of features either, so you have to ask youself how many of the banks features are indespensable to you. Like I said my way is a lot easier to maintain when you don't have a lot of debt either (my only debt is house) so it's not for everyone.

[mranderson]

Personally, I have been with Bank Of America (and their predisessors) for ten years. NOT ONE problem. I have been thrilled. In fact, when I miscalculated my bank account balances, they did not charge me a cent. Plus, when I had $15,000 in charges after someone ripped off my credit card, and some checks, not one charge. They immediatly replaced the funds.

I will continue with them and recommend them highly.

[SoonerDave]

Don't get me started with credit unions...it's unfair they can provide banking services while not being heavily regulated like banks are...not an even playing field...and now all you have to be is a human and you can join one

You might get more personal service at one, but they lack the amount of products that large nat'l banks can provide

Don't get me started with someone defending the poor little banks because of those mean ol' credit unions and their "uneven playing field." Garbage, garbage, and more garbage. It is *completely* fair, and if the banks can't compete with it, tough.

I don't shed tear one for the banks, PARTICULARLY when I hear them cry about "level playing fields." Nonsense. They choose their for-profit business model, they pay the consequences. If they can't compete, it's not the fault of the Credit Unions that are eating their lunch.

I couldn't care less about all the "extra" products that banks are supposedly able to offer, and use that as a rationalization of their higher cost of business. I just need a place to drop my paycheck and pay my bills, thanks, and my credit union serves that purpose fantastically.

-SoonerDave

[keving]

Don't get me started with credit unions...it's unfair they can provide banking services while not being heavily regulated like banks are...not an even playing field...and now all you have to be is a human and you can join one

How are the regulations between banks and credit unions different?

[Lauri101]

Unfair to whom?

I've been a CU member for 25 years, and have found all the services I need. The CD rates are good and I can do everything online. Plus, I have a vote in policy-making and management.

My daughter works for a bank, and she has stated the same thing, Easy. The only thing I see in "unfairness" is towards the banking industry. Regulating of CU's is done by NCUA - National Credit Union Administration, instead of instead of the Federal Reserve and all the other Alphabet Soup agencies

[Easy180]

here is a good summary as to my thoughts on the subject..they enjoy tax exempt status while being able to offer many of the same services banks provide BUT banks pay taxes on their earnings..This is taken from the banker's assocation so it may be a little exaggerated, but I agree w/ the basic premise

Once rarely seen, new-breed credit unions are a lot more common today. All credit unions are tax exempt and are meant to serve people of modest means. But the new breed of credit unions is different. The characteristics that made traditional credit unions special are often ignored. With the freedom to seek new
markets almost without restriction and to offer a full range of banking and financial products, many aggressive credit unions have leveraged
their tax advantage to grow rapidly.

[HFK]

A computer is making decisions for people at bank of America!

It's not making decisions, it's merely a convenient (although implausible) excuse and it looks like it might have worked

I think you stand a pretty good chance of getting out from under the issue but it might take some agonizing phone calls and overcoming various hurdles.

Speaking as someone that's just overcome Best Buy's fervent aversion to replacing refrigerators under their extended warranty plan I can affirm that when dealing with major coroporate entities perserverence and the ability to occasionally unleash the inner a##hole will serve you well. Sometimes it's as though you have to first understand just what magic words to say and precisely who you need to say them to. I don't know if 150 bucks is worth the pain for you but, in my case, when I sense I'm about to be unjustly screwed by some big behemoth I get highly motivated, even when it's relatively small change. Someone saying something really really stupid, and entirely indefensible, like that guy did to you, would just add fuel to my fire.

[hipsterdoofus]

I agree with the majority on this one. BOA didn't do anything wrong, it would be NICE for them to reverse charges, but they shouldn't. Your local bank SHOULD pay the fine, since they are who incurred it. Why get upset at BOA for this? You should be getting mad at the local bank that screwed up in the first place.

[traxx]

Regulating of CU's is done by National Credit Union Administration, instead of instead of the Federal Reserve

And who's the Fed to regulate anybody. They're not a government agency, contrary to popular belief, they are a business. They weild too much power and don't have the citizens' best interest at heart. But that's a whole other issue.

For those of you who get excuses like "it's up to the computer" and are running into brick a wall at places like Best Buy where you're clearly in the right, I've got a secret weapon for you. It's called an Executive Complaint. I read about it in a Washington Post article and copied it for my own edification. My wife just used the words once without having to actually file the complaint and got immediate resolution.

Here's an excerpt from the article: File an "executive complaint."
Most consumers know nothing about executive complaints. They don't know that larger corporations like automakers, big utilities and other Fortune 500 companies usually have a formalized process for complaints that are addressed to corporate bigwigs or that threaten realistic legal action, concern an obvious error, bad policy or a legitimate claim to remedial action.
Scott Broetzmann, president of Customer Care Measurement & Consulting, an Alexandria firm that studies customer service, says only about 5 percent of customers "escalate their complaints" beyond the first step. Less than 1 percent get to the executive complaint process. Depending on the complaint, some companies then provide priority handling by people in a position to resolve the problem quickly.

[Kerry]

Drop BoA. It is the only recourse you have. I have AmSouth here in Florida and they have refunded over-drafts several times over the years. If the others are happy with BoA let them stay there. No reason you have to.

As for automatic deductions from your checking account - have them all stopped immediately (if you can). Once you give someone access to debt your account the only person that can stop it is them. With some banks you cannot even close an account that auto-deduction setup. Gyms are really bad about continuing deductions even after you cancel your membership.

I don't know if you get Clark Howard on the radio in OKC but he has a personal finance talk show that is very helpful. His web site is www.clarkhoward.com

[traxx]

I looked at the website and apparantly his show is on in OKC on Saturday nights and Sunday afternoons on 1520am. However, we get Dave Ramsey daily on 1340.

[keving]

Yes, Dave Ramsey! I've seen him once and I have some of his books. He helped me turn my financial life around.