Streetcar

[BoulderSooner]

LOL.

1. Karchmer apparently owns 1/3rd to the City controlled 2/3rds.

2. The rail was discussed at length in the 2nd meeting and I think its placement on their list is arbitrary. They certainly made a big deal out of it in the 2nd meeting.

3. A private discussion is a private discussion. Shocked at the carrot dangling Steve.

I doubt that karchmer has 1/3 of the land. This is a 2300 space garage. That would make it quite a bit bigger than Santa Fe. Likely it would use the entire city lot all the way to walnut


Can he go forward with only using his land. Well not with this idea. Could he build something else. Sure and even though it would be "in the way". Many would not have a problem with it. But that is very different that the city letting something be built on their land that disrupts the cities future plan

[soonerguru]

Do you honestly expect Steve to answer a question like that? Did he make a statement about fighting dogs?

No, he said he wasn't one of the fighting dogs, but he doesn't name who they are. His title is journalist, and he often mentions that he has insider information, so it would be a quality act of journalism to let people know who is behind the development, who is pushing it, who else is befitting from it, etc.

You know, the kind of stuff journalists do.

The citizens of Central Oklahoma stand to lose an important piece of rail infrastructure so these unnamed interests can make money. Who are they?

Instead of reporting that, Steve goes on a message board and starts a spat. Not very professional. And not quality journalism.

Steve does some great things but he seems to have a heavy grudge against Urban Professional -- and by extension, many transit advocates. it's unbecoming.

No reason to give him a free pass on that just because he does good work elsewhere.

[flintysooner]

The sad thing is, if I were Steve I would consider not returning to this board. In that case this board only loses its value another source gone.
We all know the phrase " there are three sides to every story, our side the other side and the truth". Our tendency is to believe that our side can be the only truth.
And why is it on this board in particular, people cannot have an opinion. Having opinions is what makes us all individuals. I believe there are many on this board it would be extremely upset if the city made decisions without getting the public opinion first. some on this board, when object ing to an opinion, resort to name calling and making things personal.

We always return to our fundamental assumptions in the absence of some insight. Journalists like to think they live outside of that constraint. But the question does not form itself from nothing and the asking immediately causes more ripples.

I really have not noticed an absence of opinions or any reluctance to share them on this forum.

[Spartan]

I'm with Flinty. Steve knows the undeniable value of this massive public resource that Pete has built, and many key figures whom are in unfathomably high places in the community lurk here. Steve's job, as a news brand, is to be a participant in that conservation and synthesize all of the relevant discussion that is ongoing.

He wouldn't be here if he wasn't proactively accepting and enjoying how news media has been fundamentally revolutionized, and any seasoned journalist is going to have very thick skin. Journalists get caught in the crossfire and take their own heat when people aren't happy with only their side being reported.

I also think Steve is in the unique position of having gone advocacy at times (over obvious things that offended his moral judgment, like corporations picking on UnFrSkn for example). For developments he holds himself to a higher standard than advocacy, even choosing not to report on a LOT of uncooked projects. That said, a lot of people I see make the mistake of being offended when they expect Steve to go advocacy for them and he doesn't.

[Popsy]

Since it was brought up that everyone should be entitled to express their opinion, here is mine: Urban should resign from the committee immediately.

[Spartan]

Since it was brought up that everyone should be entitled to express their opinion, here is mine: Urban should resign from the committee immediately.

Since you've never been known for your grasp on reality or your desire to improve OKC, I guess thanks for your opinion lol

[Popsy]

Come on prissy boy. You know damn well you are junior space cadet of the whole forum. If that is your best shot you still have a long way to go to achieve the maturity you will need when you reach adult status. How long will it be before you are terminated from your Cleveland job and back here living off your dad again.

[Spartan]

Ok, fine. You should resign immediately.

There's my best shot &

[Jake]

This thread is intense. Too intense.

There needs be a virtual group hug session.

[Plutonic Panda]

Steve does some great things but he seems to have a heavy grudge against Urban Professional.

What is that?

[catcherinthewry]

Steve obviously has some information from UP that would bolster his argument and has repeatedly ask for permission to share it. Steve wouldn't ask for permission if the information would compromise UP, so I would like to know why UP won't let the rest of us know in on something that may really clear things up.

[betts]

I think all the innuendo here is confusing people. And I'm not sure any of it is healthy.

[BigD Misey]

Since it was brought up that everyone should be entitled to express their opinion, here is mine: Urban should resign from the committee immediately.

Its my opinion...thats pretty freakin funny! You too Sparty! LOL, witty

[Martin]

alright... let's cool off and stop it with the personal attacks. -M

[BoulderSooner]

Steve obviously has some information from UP that would bolster his argument and has repeatedly ask for permission to share it. Steve wouldn't ask for permission if the information would compromise UP, so I would like to know why UP won't let the rest of us know in on something that may really clear things up.

Which just goes to show Steve's hipocracy. The game of I have a secert but can't share it goes against the very idea of off the record conversations. If Steve can't/won't share whatever it is he knows. Then he shouldn't have brought it up in the first place. I can't think of something much more unprofessional then asking is that permission on a message bord over and over like a 5th grader.

[ljbab728]

No, he said he wasn't one of the fighting dogs, but he doesn't name who they are. His title is journalist, and he often mentions that he has insider information, so it would be a quality act of journalism to let people know who is behind the development, who is pushing it, who else is befitting from it, etc.

You know, the kind of stuff journalists do.

So you think Steve should go into a public forum and divulge everything he knows? LOL
That's hardly the kind of stuff journalists do.

[ljbab728]

Which just goes to show Steve's hipocracy. The game of I have a secert but can't share it goes against the very idea of off the record conversations. If Steve can't/won't share whatever it is he knows. Then he shouldn't have brought it up in the first place. I can't think of something much more unprofessional then asking is that permission on a message bord over and over like a 5th grader.

Since you have no idea what was meant by what he said, you are in no position to claim something was unprofessional. And the 5th grader comment goes directly against mmm's request.

[soonerguru]

So you think Steve should go into a public forum and divulge everything he knows? LOL
That's hardly the kind of stuff journalists do.

No, that's not what I said. I was very specific. Read closer if you care (I don't think you do).

I'm not trying to argue with you. I suggested that he could provide information that would be in the public interest of this story, specifically: who are the interests involved in this development and what do they stand to gain? Also, what does the public stand to lose? This is pretty basic stuff. It's what award-winning journalists in major markets do.

I did not suggest he "divulge everything he knows" on a public forum. In fact, I would just as soon Steve report in the Oklahoman, and if you read my comments, my major critique was that instead of providing this information -- which is of high value to the public -- he chose instead to visit this forum and engage in a personal spat.

I guess you didn't read very closely.

[Steve]

There is no personal spat. I provided information that conflicted w what he said and that was greeted with hostility. I have done the same to spartan without such name calling as you have engaged in sooner. You can continue with the insults. I am done with this thread.

[ljbab728]

No, that's not what I said. I was very specific. Read closer if you care (I don't think you do).

I'm not trying to argue with you. I suggested that he could provide information that would be in the public interest of this story, specifically: who are the interests involved in this development and what do they stand to gain? Also, what does the public stand to lose? This is pretty basic stuff. It's what award-winning journalists in major markets do.

I did not suggest he "divulge everything he knows" on a public forum. In fact, I would just as soon Steve report in the Oklahoman, and if you read my comments, my major critique was that instead of providing this information -- which is of high value to the public -- he chose instead to visit this forum and engage in a personal spat.

I guess you didn't read very closely.

No, I read exactly what you said. And award winning journalists in major markets do not go onto public forums to give the kind of information you are talking about. He isn't here to provide investigative background and speculate on motives. I would be shocked if any good journalist did something like that. He was providing facts and that's all.

[ljbab728]

No, that's not what I said. I was very specific. Read closer if you care (I don't think you do).

I'm not trying to argue with you. I suggested that he could provide information that would be in the public interest of this story, specifically: who are the interests involved in this development and what do they stand to gain? Also, what does the public stand to lose? This is pretty basic stuff. It's what award-winning journalists in major markets do.

I did not suggest he "divulge everything he knows" on a public forum. In fact, I would just as soon Steve report in the Oklahoman, and if you read my comments, my major critique was that instead of providing this information -- which is of high value to the public -- he chose instead to visit this forum and engage in a personal spat.

I guess you didn't read very closely.

No, I read exactly what you said. And award winning journalists in major markets to not go onto public forums to give the kind of information you are talking about. He isn't here to provide investigative background and speculative on motives. He was providing facts and that's all. You were not specific at all about where you thought he should post the muckraking information you want. Steve does not shy away from controversy but he deals in facts instead of speculation.

Since you weren't involved in the "spat", as you call it, maybe you should defer to the parties involved as to what it was.

[soonerguru]

No, I read exactly what you said. And award winning journalists in major markets do not go onto public forums to give the kind of information you are talking about. He isn't here to provide investigative background and speculate on motives. I would be shocked if any good journalist did something like that. He was providing facts and that's all.

Again, you must be skimming, not reading. I said, and I'll quote for you what I said: "I would just as soon Steve report in the Oklahoman..." and "I did not suggest he "divulge everything he knows" on a public forum."

If you don't understand what I'm saying here, let me say it another way: I DO NOT BELIEVE STEVE SHOULD COME ON OKC TALK AND DIVULGE ALL OF HIS INSIDE INFORMATION. I THINK HE SHOULD REPORT IN THE OKLAHOMAN WHO STANDS TO GAIN FROM THE PROPOSAL AND WHAT THE PUBLIC STANDS TO LOSE.

I'm not sure why this is so difficult to comprehend.

[ljbab728]

Again, you must be skimming, not reading. I said, and I'll quote for you what I said: "I would just as soon Steve report in the Oklahoman..." and "I did not suggest he "divulge everything he knows" on a public forum."

If you don't understand what I'm saying here, let me say it another way: I DO NOT BELIEVE STEVE SHOULD COME ON OKC TALK AND DIVULGE ALL OF HIS INSIDE INFORMATION. I THINK HE SHOULD REPORT IN THE OKLAHOMAN WHO STANDS TO GAIN FROM THE PROPOSAL AND WHAT THE PUBLIC STANDS TO LOSE.

I'm not sure why this is so difficult to comprehend.

LOL, that's not what you said when you first mentioned it. It's easy to go back and say "but this is what I really meant". Even then, he deals in facts and not speculation, no matter where it's posted.

[soonerguru]

LOL, that's not what you said when you first mentioned it. It's easy to go back and say "but this is what I really meant". Even then, he deals in facts and not speculation, no matter where it's posted.

I didn't change what I said. This is what I said: "Instead of reporting that, Steve goes on a message board and starts a spat."

I made it clear I would just as soon Steve conduct journalism about the story in the paper than having him come on OKCTalk and engage in a spat. My comments were consistent.

Perhaps you think journalists should only report what's in the public record, providing no background on stories, but that's not how the big leaguers do it. And Steve would be the first to admit that he often offers his opinions -- nothing wrong with that -- but your suggestion that he only reports facts without opinions doesn't hold water, nor just about anything else you argue.

[soonerguru]

There is no personal spat. I provided information that conflicted w what he said and that was greeted with hostility. I have done the same to spartan without such name calling as you have engaged in sooner. You can continue with the insults. I am done with this thread.

Name calling? Provide one example. You can't, because I didn't. Perhaps you're confusing my post with others. What name did I call you? I referred to you as a journalist, nothing more. I find this comment bizarre, and confusing.

What name did I call you? Please help me here.