Classen Curve

[Pete]

Red Coyote II is taking 5,400 of new space in Classen Curve.

$250K building permit today.

[BoulderSooner]

construction fence up around 58th street with the street already removed

i wonder if they are just "cleaning up the site" or if they are moving forward with the curve expansion

[HangryHippo]

I noticed this last night while visiting Upper Crust. Hopefully they're moving forward with the curve expansion. I think something on that south side could help bring a bit more balance to the strip mall.

[Pete]

Have not seen any building permits as of yet.

[tuck]

Classen Curve is adding parking along 58th.

[HangryHippo]

Were there not plans to expand in that area at one point?

[Pete]

Were there not plans to expand in that area at one point?

Yes, they were going to add a couple of small retail buildings there, but now it sounds like it will just be parking.

[HangryHippo]

What a bummer. Though the new buildings probably would have had trouble leasing anyhow.

[Pete]

Here is what was originally proposed and approved:

[bchris02]

According to somebody in Steve's chat, many Classen Curve tenants are struggling and will likely be relocating elsewhere. Can anybody confirm this? As underwhelming as Classen Curve is its still one of the better developments in the metro and I would hate to see it die. Thoughts?

[metro]

I know of several tenants regretting the move considerably. I've talked to them personally. For their privacy, I wont divulge who.

[kevinpate]

what makes the location undesirable and a struggle? I thought this was supposed to become a showplace of high end elegance.

[metro]

Foot traffic. I'm sure Red Coyote and Tuckers/Republic do well, because of their brand awareness and advertising, but some of the smaller retail shops came from more established retail centers with higher average daily foot traffic, and built up business over "x" years. As they say location location location. Not every business benefits from the same location equally. That and the big bust that was Chesapeake Land Development efforts.

[bchris02]

I know of several tenants regretting the move considerably. I've talked to them personally. For their privacy, I wont divulge who.

Do you think we will be looking at a dead shopping center in a few years? Do you think it will eventually be a viable center or is the concept just too flawed?

[metro]

Hard to say, like with any retail, I think we'll see turnover and new tenants, but without reasonable rates, and foot traffic, I can't see it doing much more of anything other than status quo. Couple that with Chesapeake performance and future on the fence, and it's a risky bet.

[bchris02]

How are the restaurants doing in the center? Classen Curve is one of the few places that has the type of "trendy casual" establishments that are so lacking in OKC but abundant in other cities. I would hope at least they are doing well.

[metro]

bchris, like I said, my understanding and observation is the restaurants are fine, the upscale retail is just lacking in constant foot traffic compared to say the foot traffic they might see if they were in Penn Sq. Keep in mind they're higher end shops, so have a smaller market segment that can afford to shop there too.

[LakeEffect]

From an urban design perspective, it's a horrible layout. Keep the architecture but make the pedestrian paths better, and I bet you'd see the retail more established. I don't mind walking Republic to Green Goodies, but it's an absolute pain to walk the entire development.

[BoulderSooner]

From an urban design perspective, it's a horrible layout. Keep the architecture but make the pedestrian paths better, and I bet you'd see the retail more established. I don't mind walking Republic to Green Goodies, but it's an absolute pain to walk the entire development.

it would really help if they built the other two planned building .. sadly i don't think that will ever happen

[soonerguru]

Do you think we will be looking at a dead shopping center in a few years? Do you think it will eventually be a viable center or is the concept just too flawed?

It was alive?

[soonerguru]

From an urban design perspective, it's a horrible layout. Keep the architecture but make the pedestrian paths better, and I bet you'd see the retail more established. I don't mind walking Republic to Green Goodies, but it's an absolute pain to walk the entire development.

I think you're actually being a bit too kind.

[onthestrip]

Mom and pops/independent stores for the most part will have struggles in nice, high rent centers. Its just the nature of the beast. My guess is they were given many concessions early on, or a bunch of tenant improvement money and now when they have to pay the expensive rent, and the sales just arent there.

Its kind of sad, because if a real estate professional would have been in charge, it could have been much more successful. There are numerous national retailers that would like to be in OKC, given the right kind of development. And classen curves goofy layout and shallow store depths, it was never going to attract those retailers.

If they do build the other building(s) it could help, that is if they could land a reputable retailer.

[adaniel]

Mom and pops/independent stores for the most part will have struggles in nice, high rent centers. Its just the nature of the beast. My guess is they were given many concessions early on, or a bunch of tenant improvement money and now when they have to pay the expensive rent, and the sales just arent there.

Its kind of sad, because if a real estate professional would have been in charge, it could have been much more successful. There are numerous national retailers that would like to be in OKC, given the right kind of development. And classen curves goofy layout and shallow store depths, it was never going to attract those retailers.

If they do build the other building(s) it could help, that is if they could land a reputable retailer.

Chesapeake will sell that center sooner or later. When that happens I think you will see a little better performance as far as leasing activity is concerned.

The demographics/traffic in that area are too good for Classen Curve to just languish. It just needs the right people in charge of it and CHK with all of their issues are not it.

[Rover]

While I usually love Rand Elliot's designs, I think he missed on this. While a lot of glass on the front is good, there is no depth for un-displayed inventory, prep, offices, etc. For retail, it is a very poor design. And, as has been pointed out, the layout being what it is doesn't invite walking from one to the other. With few synergistic stores and lots of gaps, people just don't go strolling. Parking is such that you can park immediately in front of anywhere you are going, so that doesn't help the foot traffic either. Consequently it doesn't feel full of life, and with the stark contemporary style and dark color, it doesn't invite. It isn't either intimate or grand...just something in between.

This would be a difficult re-purposing as well.

[Rover]

If this were to sell, I think the second owner could price the rental much better. This wasn't expensive construction technique or material, so it was Aubrey's overpaying for the land that makes it expensive. It would be sold at a much more reasonable market price and may make leasing much easier.