OKC Street Disrepair

[Spartan]

I feel like we've fallen behind so far on maintaining our roads that I wonder if we'll even be able to get caught back up on it AND stay on top of new construction at the same time. It is really disappointing to see.

Firstly, before I get too involved in this discussion, let me say that by and large OKC's streets (pavement-wise) are in top-notch condition compared to most other major U.S. cities. Where the roads are deplorable is with sidewalks, bike lanes/trails, and alt-modal accommodations. Far too many pedestrian-involved vehicular crashes, and far too many deaths on OKC roads as a result.

That said, the OP poses a classic chicken-and-egg questions that is very valid. At a certain point, when you sprawl so much, you have to decide between new infrastructure and infrastructure maintenance. Which is it?

[soonerguru]

I couldn't find a particular thread for this segment of NW 23rd so Im placing my statement here.

Construction is to start this July between Tulsa Avenue and Ann Arbor Avenue on 23rd. Be prepared for one lane traffic!

More than happy to put up with the inconvenience for the end result. That corridor is Baghdad like right now. Our military Humvees would struggle to navigate that pitiful, pockmarked stretch of asphalt.

[soonerguru]

Any knowledge to whether they're going to rebuild/add lanes with cement or they going to do asphalt.

I attended the public meeting. They will have concrete at the intersections extending out up to 50 feet; the rest will be asphalt. They are building sidewalks on BOTH sides of 23rd Street. They are integrating "towers" that will signify the area, which they have somewhat unceremoniously dubbed the "Windsor District." The towers will be designed to fit the Midcentury orientation of the bordering neighborhoods and will be backlit at night. Sounds kind of spiffy but they stressed these were only "initial" designs, meaning they could scrap stuff to cheap out if they want to.

The 23rd and Meridian intersection will include a medallion design and landscaping. There will be ornamental lighting along the pedestrian corridors. It will take up to a year to 14 months to complete.

This is going to be a great improvement to the area.

I'm also encouraged that there is a Windsor Area Business District that has formed and is actively engaging business owners to improve their properties, hoping the streetscape will spawn other improvements, such as have happened in Plaza District, Paseo, etc. It is all very encouraging to see. The other thing I was highly encouraged by was how well attended the public meeting was by area residents. It was SRO in a middle school cafeteria.

The only major miss is that they are going to do nothing from I-44 to Tulsa for several years. I'm not sure why they chose to put that segment last. Seems like a bad idea to me, but I'm grateful they are doing what they are doing.

[catch22]

I attended the public meeting. They will have concrete at the intersections extending out up to 50 feet; the rest will be asphalt. They are building sidewalks on BOTH sides of 23rd Street. They are integrating "towers" that will signify the area, which they have somewhat unceremoniously dubbed the "Windsor District." The towers will be designed to fit the Midcentury orientation of the bordering neighborhoods and will be backlit at night. Sounds kind of spiffy but they stressed these were only "initial" designs, meaning they could scrap stuff to cheap out if they want to.

The 23rd and Meridian intersection will include a medallion design and landscaping. There will be ornamental lighting along the pedestrian corridors. It will take up to a year to 14 months to complete.

This is going to be a great improvement to the area.

I'm also encouraged that there is a Windsor Area Business District that has formed and is actively engaging business owners to improve their properties, hoping the streetscape will spawn other improvements, such as have happened in Plaza District, Paseo, etc. It is all very encouraging to see. The other thing I was highly encouraged by was how well attended the public meeting was by area residents. It was SRO in a middle school cafeteria.

The only major miss is that they are going to do nothing from I-44 to Tulsa for several years. I'm not sure why they chose to put that segment last. Seems like a bad idea to me, but I'm grateful they are doing what they are doing.

Thanks for the info.

[soonerguru]

Thanks for the info.

I would like to add that Councilman McAtee played a big role in the early visioning of this improvement, dating back to around 2002, according to one of the speakers. As someone who resides in the area, I appreciate his role in bringing people together from both the residential and business communities and helping move this through city government.

[Plutonic Panda]

I attended the public meeting. They will have concrete at the intersections extending out up to 50 feet; the rest will be asphalt. They are building sidewalks on BOTH sides of 23rd Street. They are integrating "towers" that will signify the area, which they have somewhat unceremoniously dubbed the "Windsor District." The towers will be designed to fit the Midcentury orientation of the bordering neighborhoods and will be backlit at night. Sounds kind of spiffy but they stressed these were only "initial" designs, meaning they could scrap stuff to cheap out if they want to.

The 23rd and Meridian intersection will include a medallion design and landscaping. There will be ornamental lighting along the pedestrian corridors. It will take up to a year to 14 months to complete.

This is going to be a great improvement to the area.

I'm also encouraged that there is a Windsor Area Business District that has formed and is actively engaging business owners to improve their properties, hoping the streetscape will spawn other improvements, such as have happened in Plaza District, Paseo, etc. It is all very encouraging to see. The other thing I was highly encouraged by was how well attended the public meeting was by area residents. It was SRO in a middle school cafeteria.

The only major miss is that they are going to do nothing from I-44 to Tulsa for several years. I'm not sure why they chose to put that segment last. Seems like a bad idea to me, but I'm grateful they are doing what they are doing.

Well, I'm glad to hear it for the most part. I still wish they would do the entire thing in concrete, but I guess they can do more roads if the go the asphalt route. How come they do the intersections in cement if the rest is asphalt?

Really glad to hear about the sidewalks and landscaping. I suppose they aren't doing the illuminated streets signs lol. . . Also, do you know if the sidewalks are going to be right up against the street or pushed back a little?

This will be a HUGE improvement to the area. Also, to Spartan, are you sure OKC has top notch roads compared to other cities? I can tell you right now that L.A., Dallas, Austin, Orlando, Nashville, Denver, and Phoenix have WAAAAY better roads than we do. They are an improvement and we have more roads than most cities, but the conditions of them, it's debatable.

[catch22]

They do intersections in concrete because the concrete is more durable and lasts much longer. You might have to tear up the entire concrete intersection once every 35 years to replace. Whereas asphalt would need closures every so often to repave.

Easier to shut a lane down at a time on the street, than constantly closing a lane or direction of an intersection. Also as asphalt ages it loses it's form, so drainage might also be another reason. You don't want huge puddles in your intersections. If concrete holds it's form it should drain water properly through the majority of it's lifespan.

[ljbab728]

Far too many pedestrian-involved vehicular crashes, and far too many deaths on OKC roads as a result.

Spartan, where are you getting your information? I find it rare to hear of a pedestrian-involved vehicular crash in OKC and even rarer to hear about deaths from same.

[ljbab728]

Also, to Spartan, are you sure OKC has top notch roads compared to other cities? I can tell you right now that L.A., Dallas, Austin, Orlando, Nashville, Denver, and Phoenix have WAAAAY better roads than we do. They are an improvement and we have more roads than most cities, but the conditions of them, it's debatable.

Plupan, I don't frequent all of the cities you mention, but, I go to LA and Dallas frequently and totally disagree with you about the quality of the streets as compared to OKC.

[Mississippi Blues]

Atlanta is the only city I've been to that I thought had better roads, but I stayed in the Buckhead area & only drove on the highways & roads around downtown.

[Plutonic Panda]

Plupan, I don't frequent all of the cities you mention, but, I go to LA and Dallas frequently and totally disagree with you about the quality of the streets as compared to OKC.

I don't frequent them, Dallas has some of the best roads I've ever seen. Lived there for 5 years from OKC and then moved back to OKC. They're nice and have good flowing traffic for a city of nearly 7 million. LA, I'm not too familiar with entirely, but in Newport and Hollywood, the roads are better than OKC. As for the others, I'm only speaking from when I've visited, not frequently. OKC has some of the worst streets I've seen and have heard from many people out of state that think the same thing, so that's weird lol... Matter of opinion I suppose.

[krisb]

When was the NW 23rd Streetscape meeting? I have been involved with the Windsor Area Business Group and am on their mailing list. Somehow I missed the announcement? Are there any renderings or plans posted online?

[soonerguru]

When was the NW 23rd Streetscape meeting? I have been involved with the Windsor Area Business Group and am on their mailing list. Somehow I missed the announcement? Are there any renderings or plans posted online?

I asked the city about posting the renderings online but they said they weren't going to. Laughable. The meeting was the first week of April and the notice was sent out via postcard from the City of Oklahoma City.

[KayneMo]

The top layer of NW 23rd between Villa and Penn has been removed.

[SOONER8693]

Just got home from 2 days in the Metroplex. When we got back into OKC, wife says, these roads are like a 3rd world country compared to down there.

[warreng88]

The top layer of NW 23rd between Villa and Penn has been removed.

I noticed that. I remember there being rumors that the street (including the median) on 23rd around the Tower Theatre were going to be redone with bike lanes and I was hoping that would be the case in this area as well.

[Plutonic Panda]

Just got home from 2 days in the Metroplex. When we got back into OKC, wife says, these roads are like a 3rd world country compared to down there.

What metroplex? Dallas?

[SOONER8693]

What metroplex? Dallas?

That would be the one.

[Plutonic Panda]

That would be the one.

Dallas has great roads and so does many of its suburbs in North but there are certainly areas such as Denton and few of the communities in south east Dallas that I would say have worse roads than OKC.

If you want to see 3rd world roads or the closest thing to them, come to Los Angeles. They are spending over 4 billion on a stupid subway extension to Westwood while Wilshire rots. Unbelievable. I used to think Tulsa has the worst roads than OKC was the next runner up, but maybe Pete can back me up on how bad the roads are in certain parts of LA.

What's worse is they narrowed the road to allow for a bus lane when they should be adding traffic lanes yet traffic has gotten worse and suddenly when it the bus lane disappears and Wilshire becomes six lanes traffic starts moving again and the road becomes smoother. That's happens almost immediately when you enter Beverly Hills. Then traffic becomes a nightmare when you hit Westwood BLVD all the way to the 405 until you get pass it only to enter probably the worst city in the US for traffic, Santa Monica.

[ljbab728]

Dallas has great roads and so does many of its suburbs in North but there are certainly areas such as Denton and few of the communities in south east Dallas that I would say have worse roads than OKC.

If you want to see 3rd world roads or the closest thing to them, come to Los Angeles. They are spending over 4 billion on a stupid subway extension to Westwood while Wilshire rots. Unbelievable. I used to think Tulsa has the worst roads than OKC was the next runner up, but maybe Pete can back me up on how bad the roads are in certain parts of LA.

What's worse is they narrowed the road to allow for a bus lane when they should be adding traffic lanes yet traffic has gotten worse and suddenly when it the bus lane disappears and Wilshire becomes six lanes traffic starts moving again and the road becomes smoother. That's happens almost immediately when you enter Beverly Hills. Then traffic becomes a nightmare when you hit Westwood BLVD all the way to the 405 until you get pass it only to enter probably the worst city in the US for traffic, Santa Monica.

Plupan, I never lived there but I have gone there regularly for over 50 years visiting relatives and I agree. I have never thought LA had great roads and absolutely hated driving there, either on the freeways or the city streets. The city streets always seemed to be designed very dysfunctionally to facilitate the reasonable movement of traffic.

[Plutonic Panda]

They don't even have dedicated left turn lanes or signals that allow for left turn movements so traffic gets backed up beyond disbelief. Can't even walk on the sidewalks unless you want to go mountain climbing with random pieces of concrete sticking out of the ground.

[ljbab728]

They don't even have dedicated left turn lanes or signals that allow for left turn movements so traffic gets backed up beyond disbelief. Can't even walk on the sidewalks unless you want to go mountain climbing with random pieces of concrete sticking out of the ground.

This is getting a little off the subject of OKC streets, but you are describing what I've experienced in LA for many, many years, It is an automobile oriented city but hardly a utopia for drivers or pedestrians. I would be happy to drive in OKC for the rest of my life compared to having to drive in LA.

[Pete]

Dallas has great roads and so does many of its suburbs in North but there are certainly areas such as Denton and few of the communities in south east Dallas that I would say have worse roads than OKC.

If you want to see 3rd world roads or the closest thing to them, come to Los Angeles. They are spending over 4 billion on a stupid subway extension to Westwood while Wilshire rots. Unbelievable. I used to think Tulsa has the worst roads than OKC was the next runner up, but maybe Pete can back me up on how bad the roads are in certain parts of LA.

What's worse is they narrowed the road to allow for a bus lane when they should be adding traffic lanes yet traffic has gotten worse and suddenly when it the bus lane disappears and Wilshire becomes six lanes traffic starts moving again and the road becomes smoother. That's happens almost immediately when you enter Beverly Hills. Then traffic becomes a nightmare when you hit Westwood BLVD all the way to the 405 until you get pass it only to enter probably the worst city in the US for traffic, Santa Monica.

Welcome to the big city!

During most my time in L.A. I was a management consultant which meant that I worked for clients all over the L.A. area and it also meant I didn't have the luxury of simply living near work because the work locations were always shifting. And a lot of my clients were in/near Hollywood, West L.A. and downtown... Some of the worst places in the country for traffic, both on surface streets and freeways.

The subway and train system can actually be a tremendous asset. Many was the time I'd pull off the freeway to jump on the subway and get around traffic. All those lines are crazy full, so that tells you how important it's become to L.A. and beyond.

The roads are bad but there are sidewalks and bus lanes and bike lanes all over the place. There are lots of options to driving a car.

For a while, I took the Metrolink train downtown which runs on the Amtrak lines. Those things are amazing... Two levels, very comfortable and quiet, free WIFI, etc.

I used public transit much more in L.A. than I ever thought I would and also walked/run/biked tons and tons of places.

[Plutonic Panda]

Welcome to the big city!

During most my time in L.A. I was a management consultant which meant that I worked for clients all over the L.A. area and it also meant I didn't have the luxury of simply living near work because the work locations were always shifting. And a lot of my clients were in/near Hollywood, West L.A. and downtown... Some of the worst places in the country for traffic, both on surface streets and freeways.

The subway and train system can actually be a tremendous asset. Many was the time I'd pull off the freeway to jump on the subway and get around traffic. All those lines are crazy full, so that tells you how important it's become to L.A. and beyond.

The roads are bad but there are sidewalks and bus lanes and bike lanes all over the place. There are lots of options to driving a car.

For a while, I took the Metrolink train downtown which runs on the Amtrak lines. Those things are amazing... Two levels, very comfortable and quiet, free WIFI, etc.

I used public transit much more in L.A. than I ever thought I would and also walked/run/biked tons and tons of places.

I use the red line every day and at rush hour it gets to where you can't even stand. The new expo extension is the same way.

I will use metrolink several times per week but it sucks that it only runs a few times a day and sometimes you can only on Amtrak which is $12 one way!

I am without a car for the time being and have been car free for the last year almost here. What sucks is I have a metro monthly pass(I have a student discount) but it won't work with metrolink so if I start working with Disney again this summer I'll have to buy another pass specifically for metrolink AND still pay for Metro TAP.

I don't think Amtrak has a monthly option here in LA though I think the only place they do is the North East.

They failed big time with the Expo rail by not putting it underground or elevated having at grade crossing. I don't know if you're aware, but they have the new regional connector project which will extend the Expo and Blue line to Union Station(a multi billion dollar project) to connect with the Gold Lines where the Blue Line will run to Azusa and the Expo Line will run to Atlantic BLVD. This will also add several new subway stations in DTLA.

They also are about to start the track run thru project which will cost a couple billion to allow for the metrolink and Amtrak to run straight through over a new massive bridge over the 101 and the new HSR which should start construction in the Valley in the next 5 years.

I just bought a bike which I love and I'll have to start a new thread on that. I've been documenting several things I've noticed but as a biker I hate bike lanes and wish theyd invest in a greenway system instead as I love bike paths. The one thing I'm worried about is my new bike getting stolen.

They also are working on preliminary plans to create grade separations on the Blue Line. The Red Line will be extended to the Hollywood/Burbank Airport(currently Bob Hope). There are tons of other projects for MetroRail. At this point I'd love to see electrification of existing Metrolink and Amtrak lines to San Diego, San Bernardino, Palmdale, Palm Springs, and Ventura.

The high speed rail to Las Vegas is supposedly starting construction soon.