Jim Roth Assaulted

[WilliamTell]

I went to Grandad's with a group of friends a couple months ago.

Great post and glad to have you here.

I think the vast majority of people in okc feel the same way, but as you mentioned where ever you go there is always a small and vocal group of idiots and the dumber they are the louder they seem to be.

I'm glad the owner made his comment and Roth taking the high road and trying to remove himself from a bad situation. Any time when people are drinking (or could be) its always best just to remove yourself from it and move on. In my college years I learned that some people go into the night looking to start a fight with someone, if you run into them its best just to move on and keep enjoying your night somewhere else.

[Midtowner]

Where was the bar's security folks? Having lax security and obviously a history of hosting both gay men and men who want to try to start fights with the gay men there is a recipe for liability.

[BBatesokc]

Where was the bar's security folks? Having lax security and obviously a history of hosting both gay men and men who want to try to start fights with the gay men there is a recipe for liability.

That's kinda funny you mention that. My wife and I are to the age (40's) that we rarely go to bars - don't drink much, don't like to pay exorbitant prices when we do drink and are not fond of potentially rowdy crowds of drunk 20-somethings. So, on the rare occasion we do go to a 'bar' - I'd guess we intentionally go to places that DON'T have 'security staff' because that usually tells us they don't need it.

[Midtowner]

That's kinda funny you mention that. My wife and I are to the age (40's) that we rarely go to bars - don't drink much, don't like to pay exorbitant prices when we do drink and are not fond of potentially rowdy crowds of drunk 20-somethings. So, on the rare occasion we do go to a 'bar' - I'd guess we intentionally go to places that DON'T have 'security staff' because that usually tells us they don't need it.

A bar without adequate security is a recipe for disaster. Ask Chad Peery's family about that. I get that occasional incidents tend to happen, but it appears this isn't the first issue this bar has had.

[roci28]

This attack on Jim Roth because of his sexual orientation is disgusting and a form of bullying at its worst. Fortunatley this doesn't happen daily in OKC, however when the majority of our own gov't doesn't seem to care about the welfare of its homosexual citizens...just proven in a vote a few weeks ago regarding what is being discussed in the Supreme Court currently, some of these bigots feel it ok to run rampant on certain classes and citizens. When are we going to say this is not ok? What kind of message does this send out to the youth of OKC?

[Mississippi Blues]

soonerguru, I usually love your posts, I usually agree with them, but I have to disagree with you on this one. I think ljbab728 & boitoirich have already explained it pretty well. Running from bigotry is like running from clouds, they're everywhere you go & it doesn't matter how far or how fast you run to escape it, you never will. You might as well settle down wherever you feel happy instead of running for "greener pastures" every time someone shows their butt, because in this case, they just don't exist.

Great post btw boitoirich. Sorry you have to put up with that stuff.

[BBatesokc]

A bar without adequate security is a recipe for disaster. Ask Chad Peery's family about that. I get that occasional incidents tend to happen, but it appears this isn't the first issue this bar has had.

Guess it just depends on how you define 'a bar.'

Having been in the business for a long time, its fairly unrealistic to expect every hole-in-the-wall ball/gathering/restaurant to have 'adequate security' (which is a subjective term at best).

Using the incident with Chad Peery - I'm guessing most people would agree 'adequate security' against his attackers would have required four security personnel. You are going to be hard pressed to find many smaller bars or restaurant bars that can afford four dedicated security staff members during operational hours.

[hoya]

Not really. And therein lies the difference between southern cities and northern cities.

23-year-old gay man attacked on Manhattan subway as riders fail to act - NY Daily News

So, if New York doesn't count as a "northern city", then what does?

[PennyQuilts]

Not really. And therein lies the difference between southern cities and northern cities.

I was recently in NYC and some black coach came on television during a sports event. We were with a group of primarily young, liberal people (thirties) and we didn't all know each other. One of the guys who was friends with the host but the rest of us had just met him made the loud comment that the coach looked "just like a gorilla!" The room got quiet for a second and then almost immediately, all those rabid liberals began making urgent conversation to change the subject. Being from Oklahoma, I popped up and said, "What are you talking about? You honestly think he looks like a gorilla?" The liberals in the room got quiet, again and the guy got flustered and insisted he hadn't meant anything by it. In fact, he said, "I'm not a racist but you have to admit that guy has a real simian look to him, around his jaw and nose." I just looked him in the eye and said, coldly, "No, I really don't see that."

Not one liberal in that room called him on it. They just quickly changed the subject to cover it over and were clearly embarassed by the whole exchange. And I know most of them - in the comfort of their own living rooms and with people of like minds, they are very, very, very vocal about the problem of racism. When faced with a real life situation in a social setting with someone who is a friend of a friend, they said nothing. Candidly, I wasn't proud of them.

To hear someone claim this sort of thing doesn't go on in Northern Cities is ignorant. You haven't seen racism in action until you see the servant class minority nannies with the little white babies, and the Upper West Side rich liberals who run that city - or take the subway to queens and the like. Talk is cheap, friend. How you treat people and the way you behave is what matters.

[soonerguru]

soonerguru, I usually love your posts, I usually agree with them, but I have to disagree with you on this one. I think ljbab728 & boitoirich have already explained it pretty well. Running from bigotry is like running from clouds, they're everywhere you go & it doesn't matter how far or how fast you run to escape it, you never will. You might as well settle down wherever you feel happy instead of running for "greener pastures" every time someone shows their butt, because in this case, they just don't exist.

Great post btw boitoirich. Sorry you have to put up with that stuff.

Sorry if I didn't make it more clear. What I should have said is we're lucky to have people like Jim Roth in our community. He could live / work anywhere. The fact that he has stayed here is great -- if somewhat surprising. The political climate here is not friendly to gay people. That is not in dispute.

That being said, OKC is much more LGBT friendly than it has ever been and hopefully will continue to get better.

I'm not sure how many of you have seen the excellent film "Bully," but it describes small-town Oklahoma to a tee, and it is small-town Oklahoma that drives our state's politics. If you saw that you would understand that Oklahoma can be an incredibly hostile place for gay and lesbian teens.

Fortunately, OKC, Tulsa and Norman are much more tolerant and welcoming places to be.

[Bunty]

It's sad that 1) Roth felt the need to leave the bar; and 2) this happened at a birthday celebration. What a drag. His comments were very classy but I'm surprised he hasn't already left OKC for friendlier pastures, where you don't constantly have to hear you're going to hell for being a ***, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised OKC gays have been leaving for friendlier places, such as Dallas, Denver and California. Aside from one bar being built, the 39th St. district has been in decline in recent years. Many gays and straights can hardly believe a fabulous dance place, Angles, has had to close, except for special events, on weekends, due to lack of patronage. On the other hand, perhaps the 39th St. situation merely reflects that OKC gays have felt their partying has become more accepted in other entertainment areas and have been going there.

[Mississippi Blues]

Sorry if I didn't make it more clear. What I should have said is we're lucky to have people like Jim Roth in our community. He could live / work anywhere. The fact that he has stayed here is great -- if somewhat surprising. The political climate here is not friendly to gay people. That is not in dispute.

That being said, OKC is much more LGBT friendly than it has ever been and hopefully will continue to get better.

I'm not sure how many of you have seen the excellent film "Bully," but it describes small-town Oklahoma to a tee, and it is small-town Oklahoma that drives our state's politics. If you saw that you would understand that Oklahoma can be an incredibly hostile place for gay and lesbian teens.

Fortunately, OKC, Tulsa and Norman are much more tolerant and welcoming places to be.

Okay, this I can understand. I agree with you from this standpoint. Thank you for clarifying.

[bluedogok]

Sorry if I didn't make it more clear. What I should have said is we're lucky to have people like Jim Roth in our community. He could live / work anywhere. The fact that he has stayed here is great -- if somewhat surprising. The political climate here is not friendly to gay people. That is not in dispute.

That being said, OKC is much more LGBT friendly than it has ever been and hopefully will continue to get better.

I'm not sure how many of you have seen the excellent film "Bully," but it describes small-town Oklahoma to a tee, and it is small-town Oklahoma that drives our state's politics. If you saw that you would understand that Oklahoma can be an incredibly hostile place for gay and lesbian teens.

Fortunately, OKC, Tulsa and Norman are much more tolerant and welcoming places to be.

The rural areas in even the most "liberal" of states is really no different than that of rural Oklahoma. It has more to do with the differences in the attitudes of people between urban and rural areas than it does an overall state. You can find just as many bigots in rural New York (and most others) as you can in rural Oklahoma.

[soonerguru]

The rural areas in even the most "liberal" of states is really no different than that of rural Oklahoma. It has more to do with the differences in the attitudes of people between urban and rural areas than it does an overall state. You can find just as many bigots in rural New York (and most others) as you can in rural Oklahoma.

You may be right, but I have lived in Oklahoma and New York and found Oklahoma to be more redneck, racist and close minded. A lot of rural New York State is fairly affluent, and is much more politically progressive than rural Oklahoma.

I did encounter racism in New York City, as well, but noticed that people there generally got along to an amazing degree, and were overall more accepting of differences (because they are used to living in close quarters with people who are different).

So yes, what you're saying is true, but it's not the same, and I think you know this.

[Urban Pioneer]

I wouldn't be surprised OKC gays have been leaving for friendlier places, such as Dallas, Denver and California. Aside from one bar being built, the 39th St. district has been in decline in recent years. Many gays and straights can hardly believe a fabulous dance place, Angles, has had to close, except for special events, on weekends, due to lack of patronage. On the other hand, perhaps the 39th St. situation merely reflects that OKC gays have felt their partying has become more accepted in other entertainment areas and have been going there.

Its funny. I have been running into GLBT people lately that have completely divirgent views on this issue. Some people relish having an improved "district" for the sense of community and history that resides there. Others find that having to go to a specific place or neighborhood to "be accepted and safe" is insulting.

Grandad's is a great example of proprietors with a modern perspective, welcoming to all.

[bchris02]

This can and does happen anywhere, but Oklahoma City in particular is known nationwide for homophobia among other things and this just confirms the stereotype. Like all stereotypes, there likely is some truth to that. I am not sure what it's like to be gay in OKC but my guess would be that its one of the worst cities to be out of the closet in. Somebody who knows better correct me if I'm wrong?

As for 39th St, I have heard the huge gay dance clubs are becoming less common nationwide as gays become more comfortable going to mainstream clubs. For those who know the scene, is 39th St still doing well?

[Mississippi Blues]

^^ my uncle is gay & he has lived in OKC all of his life & he has never had any problems. He's very open about it & he's very liberal & he doesn't complain about the culture here (other than the politicians) & he's never considered moving anywhere else. He did consider buying a penthouse in Chicago about a year or so ago, but that was just for a vacation type place. Maybe he's just very tolerant or maybe it's just not as bad for gays as some think, I don't know for sure though.

[ljbab728]

This can and does happen anywhere, but Oklahoma City in particular is known nationwide for homophobia among other things and this just confirms the stereotype. Like all stereotypes, there likely is some truth to that. I am not sure what it's like to be gay in OKC but my guess would be that its one of the worst cities to be out of the closet in. Somebody who knows better correct me if I'm wrong?

OKC, in particular, is not known for this nationwide. Where do you get your information? The only national publicity we have had in this area is from our beloved Sally Kern. And what "other things" are you referring to?

[BBatesokc]

This can and does happen anywhere, but Oklahoma City in particular is known nationwide for homophobia among other things and this just confirms the stereotype. Like all stereotypes, there likely is some truth to that. I am not sure what it's like to be gay in OKC but my guess would be that its one of the worst cities to be out of the closet in. Somebody who knows better correct me if I'm wrong?

As for 39th St, I have heard the huge gay dance clubs are becoming less common nationwide as gays become more comfortable going to mainstream clubs. For those who know the scene, is 39th St still doing well?

Such an odd statement and completely untrue IMO. Please point to something tangible that supports the idea the "Oklahoma City in particular is known nationwide for homophobia."

I also love it when people (who obviously don't know a wide range of gay individuals/couples) simply assume most of Oklahoma's homosexuals are herded into the 39th street area because 'that's the gay district.'

I've been in that area since the 80's (going to the clubs with high school friends and volunteering at a former HIV/AIDS testing center). I continued to go some in the 90's while in college and even took my now wife to Angle's on one of our first dates when we were in our 20's. When I taught bartending (just to the west of the district) the class would often go to the different clubs after class to watch things and one or two clubs would let some of them pour a few rounds if they had their liquor license.

While I knew/know several gay individuals/couples who would occasionally go into the district, most felt it was lower class or too sordid for them unless they were in their 20's.

As for being out of the closet in Oklahoma. I've personally never heard any of my gay friends complain about having trouble in OKC. The only time I've known of any to have any sort of tense moment is the rare occasion where they found themselves in a place where people were consuming large amounts of alcohol. But that said, that is when most people of any sexual orientation are going to have the most likelihood of some sort of confrontation or problem.

Racism and prejudice are everywhere and within every class of people. I truly believe prejudice is far more common and far more destructive and unrealized than most people think. A great read on the topic of prejudice is Blindspot: Hidden Biases of Good People - Blindspot: Hidden Biases of Good People: Mahzarin R. Banaji, Anthony G. Greenwald: 9780553804645: Amazon.com: Books

[kelroy55]

Not really. And therein lies the difference between southern cities and northern cities.

Bigotry doesn't stop at the Mason Dixon line.

[metro]

Not really. And therein lies the difference between southern cities and northern cities.

Sorry, Spartan, but that's an ignorant thing to say. As someone who has lived in two major northern cities, I'd witness this kind of stuff on a regular basis.

Yep very ignorant statement, I've seen this behavior just as much if not more in Northern cities. Bigotry and hate will always exist everywhere. That's as ignorant as the current regime stating "assault" rifles cause assaults, when in reality rifles are only used in 4% of ALL GUN Crimes and semi auto (mislabeled as Assault) rifles are used in only .003% of all gun crimes.

[LandRunOkie]

Very telling how none of the posters angered by the north/south comment expressed their condolences to the victim.

[BBatesokc]

Very telling how none of the posters angered by the north/south comment expressed their condolences to the victim.

Actually its not telling at all and a pretty petty observation.

[WilliamTell]

Very telling how none of the posters angered by the north/south comment expressed their condolences to the victim.

I noticed it too. Its always the dame usuals around this website.

[onthestrip]

Im not sure how we cant be one of the higher ranking homo-phobic states. Oklahoma isnt exactly known as a progessive, intolorant state. And this is the state that has continued to re-elect Sally "gays are a bigger threat than terrorism" Kern. I know no one wants to talk bad about their state but lets get real.