The Urban Renewal thread (the movement, not OCURA)

[Plutonic Panda]

Well, they're amazing pictures I must say.

[tillyato]

I'm looking for a few books to learn more about the urban renewal movement, specifically some that will help me learn what are considered to be the "best practices" in urban design and development today, as well as explanations for why certain urban designs work better than others to acheive walkable, livable communities. Anybody have any suggestions?

[traxx]

You could spend years reading about this and studying it. Like you, I didn't know a whole lot about our history with urban renewal until I came here. But for a short answer to some of your questions:

The I.M. Pei plan was designed to tear down a lot of older abandoned buildings and replace them wth modern structures. The fact that we tore down a bunch of cool old buildings from the turn of the century through the 1930s, and were going to replace them with the finest in early 1970s architecture (uglytecture?) makes this plan look questionable today. At the time they thought they were going to be replacing ugly old stuff with cool new stuff. But what happened is that we tore down all the buildings and then the oil bust hit, and First National Bank failed, and all the money went away before we got around to repacing much of it.

So today, instead of us having an abundance of older buildings that could either be renovated or rented out inexpensively like most cities, we have empty lots where those buildings once stood.

As much as it sucks that we lost some cool buildings, I guess we can be thankful we didn't build any of that uglytecture. We'd be having to deal with that now. From the drawings I've seen, it looks like Pei was using Logan's Run as his basis for design. Or some other '70s futuristic movie. How would that look for us to have a large portion of our downtown look like a bad 1970s sci fi movie?

[warreng88]

This reminds me of the deepest level of Inception...

[traxx]

Came across an amazing old film posted online by the Oklahoma Historical Society



Shot in the early seventies (it would appear), it gives quite a lengthy overview of what Urban Renewal was trying to accomplish. Lots of footage of downtown (and surrounding areas) of the time.

Absolutely fascinating to watch. Guaranteed to stir some emotions (and not all good ones either).

What an interesting film. I had almost forgotten that Hefner Pkwy didn't always pass by Baptist Hospital.

Knowing what we know now, it's kind of sickening to see those buildings torn down and imploded. But they thought they were doing great things. And they made it sound great in that film. Talking about a galleria shopping mall and the museums that would inhabit the Myriad Gardens etc. Many of these things didn't quite live up to the hype. I don't know that the shopping area attached to the Sheraton was ever the retail hub they thought it would be. I could be wrong but that's how I remember it.

[Rover]

Those in the past were not stupid or ill-intentioned. Everything evolves and things like recessions change things dramatically. Just like today's generation thinks that we have everything finally figured out, they thought they had if figured out then. And in 30-50 years, our grandkids and great grandkids will be astounded how stupid we were to think we have it all figured out now.

[Rover]

Hey Sid, I forgot to tell you how much I enjoyed your segment at last weeks Placemaking conference.

[Rover]

Thanks. I felt way out of place and honestly, pretty far out of my league. But boy was I glad to be there.

I'm still brimming with excitement from hearing all those talks in the same day. Which talk did you like the most? [besides mine, of course ]

I really liked the Better Block presentation and the evening presentation (Hank Dittmar). But, they were all excellent. I also liked the pragmatic tone of most of them...they didn't come off as Urbanista Nazis that sometimes happens. I enjoyed the discussion on re-purposing the suburbs - something we need to think about and not just condemn and ignore them.

I must say, OU's assembling of this slate of speakers and the forum format was great. I attended the constitutional forum there a couple of weeks ago and it was outstanding as well. They do a great job of bringing in the best of the best for these things.

[Rover]

When Dr. Boren calls to invite you, you just say "when do I show up", you don't say "no" or "I'll think about it". Like when he calls for a donation - you just ask "how much should I make the check out for?".

[Rover]

By the way, he was head of the Senate Intelligence Committee and maintains strong ties to the intelligence community...so, he already knows how much you can afford to give.

[traxx]

Those in the past were not stupid or ill-intentioned. Everything evolves and things like recessions change things dramatically. Just like today's generation thinks that we have everything finally figured out, they thought they had if figured out then. And in 30-50 years, our grandkids and great grandkids will be astounded how stupid we were to think we have it all figured out now.

If this is in response to my post directly above yours, then I think you misunderstood. I never said they were stupid or ill-intentioned. I even stated that they thought they were doing great things. I just found the film very interesting to look at from our perspective in 2013. They made it sound great in the film but not all of it lived up to what they thought it would be. I'm sure there things that we are doing with downtown today that in 40 years they'll wish we hadn't done. I just found the film extremely interesting.

[Rover]

It wasn't in response to your post. It was just a comment after living through that era of the film that I was reminded by the film that the leaders then truly believed they were using state of the art planning and one of the world's most revered planners. Every generation thinks they absolutely have the answers. I was just pointing out that as sure as we are today that we have all the answers (evidenced by dogmatic posters on this site) we will have still different thoughts in the coming decades. Ideas promoted and decisions made today WILL be widely criticized after the fact, just as I have heard those of our past referred to as stupid, ignorant, greedy, etc. It is always easier to second guess after the fact than to lead and implement great ideas.

[AP]

It wasn't in response to your post. It was just a comment after living through that era of the film that I was reminded by the film that the leaders then truly believed they were using state of the art planning and one of the world's most revered planners. Every generation thinks they absolutely have the answers. I was just pointing out that as sure as we are today that we have all the answers (evidenced by dogmatic posters on this site) we will have still different thoughts in the coming decades. Ideas promoted and decisions made today WILL be widely criticized after the fact, just as I have heard those of our past referred to as stupid, ignorant, greedy, etc. It is always easier to second guess after the fact than to lead and implement great ideas.

This.

[Plutonic Panda]

[OKCisOK4me]

No.

[Plutonic Panda]

No what? lol. . . There was a lot lot of posting about Dubai in this thread and I got this funny email and thought I'd share the video and see what people thought. It's a city with massive beautiful buildings and it doesn't have a sewage system. It's interesting and I'm curious how many people know that. :P

[BDP]

It wasn't in response to your post. It was just a comment after living through that era of the film that I was reminded by the film that the leaders then truly believed they were using state of the art planning and one of the world's most revered planners. Every generation thinks they absolutely have the answers. I was just pointing out that as sure as we are today that we have all the answers (evidenced by dogmatic posters on this site) we will have still different thoughts in the coming decades. Ideas promoted and decisions made today WILL be widely criticized after the fact, just as I have heard those of our past referred to as stupid, ignorant, greedy, etc. It is always easier to second guess after the fact than to lead and implement great ideas.

I think the difference so far is that there has been measurable positive results and, most importantly, things are getting done. At the end of the day, the biggest problem with the first urban renewal and the Pei plan was that it didn't even get finished. The plan never was fully realized and is now known simply for its destruction. If anything, the lesson there is that destruction should always be used as a last result or the product of a true need (as in no other readily available resources such as available land or redevelopment opportunities, both of which we still have in abundance downtown), because there is never a guarantee that any project will be completed. When assets aren't recklessly destroyed, the city mitigates the risk of ending up with nothing, or very little, as it did in the early 80s.

This time around redevelopment and restoration has occurred and, collectively, those projects now represent the biggest successes of this urban renewal and are what have given downtown, and Oklahoma City in general, a new relevant identity. When OKC's two largest urban renewal efforts are compared, it becomes clear that support of renovation over destruction is not just dogmatic rhetoric, it's the approach that has actually worked in very quantifiable and tangible ways. The fragility of our undiversified economy and the fickle nature of its biggest players should always be considered in development decisions. When the city grants permission for demolition, the only assurance we have is that the given structure will be lost forever. Unfortunately, we know all to well that there is a very real possibility that nothing will replace it for decades.

[UnFrSaKn]

This is what FNC needs.

[Romulack]

Here's an example of what urban renewal did for Lawton, Oklahoma in the 1970s:

Downtown Lawton, OK circa 1964 looking west (Hotel Lawtonian visible on left side of photo)


Downtown Lawton, OK during destruction of downtown (1978)


Downtown Lawton, OK after Central Mall replaced downtown, looking south/southwest. (Hotel Lawtonian in center of photo)

[UnFrSaKn]

Middle of the day in Beijing. Pollution, not fog.

[HangryHippo]

Jesus, what an awful place.

[UnFrSaKn]

http://vimeo.com/51137834

[UnFrSaKn]

blursurfing photoblog ~ The Crystal Ballroom

[Teo9969]

What city is that? Amazing how built out it is.

[UnFrSaKn]

Same as the above video.